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Old March 4th, 2008, 07:59 PM   #21
zook < jeep
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Sorry, i think you're full of shit on this one. My arrangement sounds awesome.
Like I said ... to each his own! To me, Bose bass is un-natural and over-driven. Having played guitar and sang on-stage with "real" instruments in the background and being a sound tech for a few years, there is a definite difference between "natural instruments" and today's perception of "good sound". People tend to think that boomy bass sounds great. SHow me one band with a real drumset that had booming bass. It is all syntheiszed junk in today's music. The true test of accurate sound reproduction is the extremes ... as in bass and treble. Listen to the cymbals. That is where CD's fall short. Yes, they have a 44KHz sampling rate, but when a 10-15KHz cymbal is hit, the 2nd and 3rd order harmonics are WAY beyond the capabilities of 44KHz sampling and they tend to sound compressed. Same for bass. Natural bass has a clean smooth reverberation. Bose just hits and muddies it all together for me.

Like I said, I have Bose 301 Series 4's in my garage system. I auditioned the Wave radio and THANK GOD for the return policy because that thing sucked! Sorry dude, but a system with a dozen 2" drivers and a sub-par sub that is overdriven with terrible cabinet resonance is NOT an accurate sound reproduction system! Where is the midrange driver? Where is the woofer? I've heard the Bose satellite systems and they are ALL over-exagerated bass and treble with NO midrange ... BLECH!!


As I told the other person above that busted my chops on vinyl, you are more than welcome to come over anytime, sit down, have a few beers and get educated on good sound! I quite enjoy the look on people's faces when they get their eyes opened up with what is possible with a modestly-priced home setup.

Names mean nothing to me. You can have the best equipment made but if you put it in a crap room, you can destroy the sound from $10k speakers. Hell, I had a 1000W Carver sub that I used to think was the bomb until I got my Klipsch RF-7's. It made the Carver sound like a Bose! :tonka:

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Old March 4th, 2008, 08:23 PM   #22
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i too am not a big fan of bose.


ANd Vacuum Amplifiers are wonderful sounding, very natural.


Now if only i had money, because My B&W's are getting old and are small.


And AudioQuest type 4, sounds better than Lamp wire.

and my Newer Metallica 33 1/3 Record sounds wonderful, Certain bands should only be listened to on Vinyl.

and I'm partially deaf thanks to Klipsch

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Old March 4th, 2008, 09:06 PM   #23
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i too am not a big fan of bose.


ANd Vacuum Amplifiers are wonderful sounding, very natural.


Now if only i had money, because My B&W's are getting old and are small.


And AudioQuest type 4, sounds better than Lamp wire.

and my Newer Metallica 33 1/3 Record sounds wonderful, Certain bands should only be listened to on Vinyl.

and I'm partially deaf thanks to Klipsch
Klipsch rocks! ... and they are tube friendly unlike B&W's! Klipsch use a 1st order crossover with only 1 passive inline which keeps impedance somewhat tame under resonance. Then there is B&W with their "precise" 4th order crossover that makes the impedance curve look like the Andes!

Scottie - we need to talk! I can get you into tubes pretty cheap! There are several DIY kits out there for a reasonable price if you can do basic through-hole soldering. I HIGHLY recommend the diytube.com ST-35 kit. The EL-84 is probably one of the most musical vacuum tubes ever created. You can be in a st-35 tube amp for about $200. Next time you are over this way, drop me a line and check out my new system.

Speaking of bands on vinyl, the most shocking album for me was Rage Against The Machine! OMFG!!! I could not believe how good that guitar sounded on vinyl. But then again, distortion is a complex beast that requires HUGE bandwidth to reproduce properly ... a thing CD's lack ...

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Old March 4th, 2008, 09:43 PM   #24
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if you can do basic through-hole soldering.

Speaking of bands on vinyl, the most shocking album for me was Rage Against The Machine! OMFG!!! I could not believe how good that guitar sounded on vinyl. But then again, distortion is a complex beast that requires HUGE bandwidth to reproduce properly ... a thing CD's lack ...
through-hole soldering is for loosers, I can do small surface mount crap

yeah, i've given given up on Home Electronics though, You can never have enough clean power(especially with B&W's). I have still have more money in electronics than in my samurai , but i never have a chance to sit down and enjoy it anymore

How do you think a diy tube amp will sound compared to a nice little NAD?
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Old March 4th, 2008, 09:52 PM   #25
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Like I said ... to each his own! To me, Bose bass is un-natural and over-driven. Having played guitar and sang on-stage with "real" instruments in the background and being a sound tech for a few years, there is a definite difference between "natural instruments" and today's perception of "good sound". People tend to think that boomy bass sounds great. SHow me one band with a real drumset that had booming bass. It is all syntheiszed junk in today's music. The true test of accurate sound reproduction is the extremes ... as in bass and treble. Listen to the cymbals. That is where CD's fall short. Yes, they have a 44KHz sampling rate, but when a 10-15KHz cymbal is hit, the 2nd and 3rd order harmonics are WAY beyond the capabilities of 44KHz sampling and they tend to sound compressed. Same for bass. Natural bass has a clean smooth reverberation. Bose just hits and muddies it all together for me.

Like I said, I have Bose 301 Series 4's in my garage system. I auditioned the Wave radio and THANK GOD for the return policy because that thing sucked! Sorry dude, but a system with a dozen 2" drivers and a sub-par sub that is overdriven with terrible cabinet resonance is NOT an accurate sound reproduction system! Where is the midrange driver? Where is the woofer? I've heard the Bose satellite systems and they are ALL over-exagerated bass and treble with NO midrange ... BLECH!!


As I told the other person above that busted my chops on vinyl, you are more than welcome to come over anytime, sit down, have a few beers and get educated on good sound! I quite enjoy the look on people's faces when they get their eyes opened up with what is possible with a modestly-priced home setup.

Names mean nothing to me. You can have the best equipment made but if you put it in a crap room, you can destroy the sound from $10k speakers. Hell, I had a 1000W Carver sub that I used to think was the bomb until I got my Klipsch RF-7's. It made the Carver sound like a Bose! :tonka:
I rarely if ever listen to music on my Bose system. Movie's are about the most of the music I pay attention to in the slightest. My room is shit for audio reflection and there isn't anything I can do about it so I deal with what I have.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 09:52 PM   #26
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i have a 5.1 surround with 5 disk dvd am/fm and a bunch of other things i dont know what they do but its got alot of sticks that tell me it does alot lmao ... its a samsung ... it plays dvds and thats all i care about lol
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Old March 4th, 2008, 11:19 PM   #27
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Default More watts than some countries

Onkyo M-504, 350 watts (500 @ 2 ohms!!!), 0.003%THD!!
Onkyo TX-SR805, 300 watts

I had Cerwin Vega AT-15, it was like having two small refrigerators in the living room. Can't put them in front of window, it'll break. So I bumped down to 12s. I would like to try Bose 901.

I need to get someone in the crawl space to wire the rest of the house, I have the power for it!!!

Actually I think the coat hanger would work well, just shit for shielding and can't run it. Like having a firehose for your fuel system. I run monster because I can get it.

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Old March 5th, 2008, 07:12 AM   #28
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How do you think a diy tube amp will sound compared to a nice little NAD?
The NAD is OK. Best bang for the buck in high-end. The diytube ST-35 will tear up just about any SS amp due to the tube midrange "factor". If you don't have efficient speakers (>90db), you might also consider picking up a used Dynaco ST-70 and swapping the driver with something a bit more up-to-date. The driver I put on my ST-70 passes a square wave from 4Hz to 40Hz ... now THAT is bandwidth!!!

If you don't mind spending a few extra bucks and don't want the headache of tubes, I HIGHLY recommend Burson Audio's Integrated setup. The circuit design follows what most of the DIY audiophiles consider the "perfect SS setup". Discrete voltage gain stage feeding a Class-AB current gain stage. Seperate power supplies (including tranformers) and NO SIGNAL SUCKING COUPLING CAPS! They use a DC Servo to eliminate any DC offset. The amp is here: http://www.bursonaudio.com/Burson_PI-100.htm

XXXJ - Nice Onkyo! Old vintage Japanese solid state is great stuff too! I had a Yamaha C-4 and M-4 combo for a little while! Love that clean Japanese power!!! The old Cerwin 15's were a sweet speaker too! Now if I could just convince the wife to let me put two Klipschorns in the living room!

Lothos - We finally agree on something! LOL! I have terrible acoustics in my garage, so that is why I use the 301's in there because Bose WILL fill a room with sound!
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Old March 5th, 2008, 07:16 AM   #29
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... One more thing ...

Actually, the coat hanger would be better than almost ANY commercial speaker wire! The speaker wires do not need shielding since they are high power and immune to any RF interference. The best conductors are single conductor (vs. stranded). Now if someone could find an old closet full of silver coat hangers, they could make a bundle selling them as boutique speaker wires that actually DO sound good!

Once we get settled in the new house, I am replacing all my interconnects. Not sure what brand/technology yet, but have considered single strand 30-gauge silver in teflon tubing. But with the stereo being near the TV, I think I need to consider something with a bit more shielding ...
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