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Old March 3rd, 2008, 10:56 PM   #1
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Default Swordfighters unite

Glad I am not the only one that thinks this way when it comes to swapping out a Jeep engine with a SBC 350.

BTW, great site for everything you need for the swap.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge...and_rules.html (Rule #7)

Quote:
7. "I'd like to install a Jeep / AMC engine so that it is consistently all Jeep parts."

Ok. If you are really going to stick to this conjured rule, than you will need to ditch these factory supplied components:

GM

Hydra matic transmissions
Buick engines
Chevrolet engines
Saginaw power steering
Steering columns

Ford

Starters
Ignition systems
Warner transmissions
Tremec transmissions

Chrysler

Torqueflite transmissions

Renault

Renix EFI control systems

Good luck with that.

Some folks mask cheapness ("I got this free engine") with brand loyalty and get a swap that, in the end, achieves neither.

Some of the hardest parts to swap into Jeeps are usually Jeep parts. Counterintuitive? Absolutely. Yet, parts interchange between Jeep powertrain components is usually difficult, occasionally nightmarish and the benefits are usually unsubstantial and unjustifiable in terms of the effort and expense they create.
If anything, I may have helped some of you find the parts and technical information you needed to do your rig builds .

Flame suit on (as you were) ....
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 11:00 PM   #2
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You were surfing for porn and stumbled on that didnt you?
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 11:00 PM   #3
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I'll get heat for this too, but you just can't ignore the fact that you can build just about any horsepower level cheaper with a SBC than anything else simply because of a 40 year run with very little change and tons of aftermarket support.

Bang for the buck, ya know.

BTW, second place likely goes to the 5.0 Ford
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 11:06 PM   #4
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You were surfing for porn and stumbled on that didnt you?
Uh huh, I was looking for the effects of Novackaine on certain parts of the body.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 07:10 AM   #5
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Not on purpose I have:

Axles from a J-10, and a tcase from a CJ. I roll all Jeep parts yo.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 07:36 AM   #6
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Not on purpose I have:

Axles from a J-10, and a tcase from a CJ. I roll all Jeep parts yo.
I like Brian's Jeep better.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 09:21 AM   #7
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I like Brian's Jeep better.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 12:52 PM   #8
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The obvious fact that dispells the entire list on that page is that Jeeps came with all those parts and they share interchangeability with other Jeep engines because they were supplied with AMC/Jeep-specific bolt patterns regardless of who manufactured the particular unit. They even said "factory supplied" right on the page. It came on a Jeep and you can (or could) buy it from a Jeep dealer. That's a "Jeep" part.

Novak composed that page because they want you to buy their parts in order to perform swaps. The truth is that you don't need their parts to swap Jeep engines into Jeeps until you get into the really modern stuff. That's what they are trying to hide from you with the ridiculous effort at word games because its counterproductive to their business. They have a lot of knowledge of what is good for their business and also what hurts their business (which is factory parts compatibility they won't tell you about). The angle here is for them to market themselves as a "one-stop shopping" resource for customers that do not posess the knowledge or resources to find the factory parts that will let them do the swap at a fraction of the cost. I use their Knowledge Base site all the time to educate people about transmissions, transfer cases, and the link so that they don't end up buying things they don't have to.

You can't install a Chevy V8 into a Jeep without aftermarket parts or fabrication. Not even a CJ that came with an Iron Duke - the frame mounts and wiring harness fukc you no matter what vehicle you try it with. Plain and simple. The same statement cannot be said regarding an AMC V8.

Its a good thing that there are some Jeep-interchangeability-savy individuals on this board to help keep people for falling prey to the aftermarket manufacturers like this.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 01:07 PM   #9
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Any your angle would be .... Sales!

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Old March 4th, 2008, 01:11 PM   #10
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SBC ftw!
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Old March 4th, 2008, 01:26 PM   #11
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yup when everyone is yapping how great their "eccentric" motor swap is and carry an extra trailer of parts with them. I say "well I can pretty much find a farmer, a kmart, or some local who has a sbc part I can get if it breaks."
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Old March 4th, 2008, 02:01 PM   #12
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yup when everyone is yapping how great their "eccentric" motor swap is and carry an extra trailer of parts with them. I say "well I can pretty much find a farmer, a kmart, or some local who has a sbc part I can get if it breaks."
Wouldn't you rather have an engine with harder to find replacement parts that doesn't break??
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Old March 4th, 2008, 02:16 PM   #13
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Wouldn't you rather have an engine with harder to find replacement parts that doesn't break??
only if it will guarantee my e-penis to be 94% larger
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Old March 4th, 2008, 02:18 PM   #14
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Any your angle would be .... Sales!

Which doesn't change any of the facts I stated at all.


Building your motor around the strategy that parts are easily found is basically playing a Jedi Mind Trick on yourself. It will do jack shit for you when something fails on the trail, your rig becomes dead weight, and you only have the power left in your battery to move you. In the end, you are actually designing around an expected failure within the useable life of the motor. (Basically starting a countdown to fucking yourself over.)

The only way to do the SBC swap and not fukc yourself over, is have the motor built instead of playing the "used motor shuffle". When you do that, you spend the same money you would spend building the Jeep motor and blow the entire strategy of trying to save money.

Last edited by PävementPounder; March 4th, 2008 at 02:23 PM.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 04:56 PM   #15
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Which doesn't change any of the facts I stated at all.


Building your motor around the strategy that parts are easily found is basically playing a Jedi Mind Trick on yourself. It will do jack shit for you when something fails on the trail, your rig becomes dead weight, and you only have the power left in your battery to move you. In the end, you are actually designing around an expected failure within the useable life of the motor. (Basically starting a countdown to fucking yourself over.)

The only way to do the SBC swap and not fukc yourself over, is have the motor built instead of playing the "used motor shuffle". When you do that, you spend the same money you would spend building the Jeep motor and blow the entire strategy of trying to save money.
I agree if this is a stock rebuild, but performance parts are cheapest for the SBC, with 5.0 Ford second. Machining and assembly are roughly equal among the domestic brands, except maybe SOHC Fords and HEMI Mopars.

Oh, and it doesn't matter WHO built the drivetrain, anything mechanical has a breaking point. It's up to the driver to know when he's approaching it and whether it's worth the risk.

And my opinion comes from 10 years of working with a circle track racer who raced at Mt.Clemens and Toledo. He switched from Mopar to Chevy simply because it was much cheaper to build a Chevy.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 06:24 PM   #16
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And my opinion comes from 10 years of working with a circle track racer who raced at Mt.Clemens and Toledo. He switched from Mopar to Chevy simply because it was much cheaper to build a Chevy.
Building them to the level you were using them at probably makes it justifiable, but that's not the build level, nor the brand comparison that we're kicking around here.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 07:34 PM   #17
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Personally, I agree. Why would anyone drop a motor into a vehicle (regardless of who makes it) without first doing a once over? At least new seals, bearings and a good cleanup internally.

I prefer the Chevy brand (engine) only because of costs and parts availability.

This came up because someone poked me again on my suggestion of putting a 4l60e into a Jeep rather than the 700R4. 4l60e setup for 4x4 is far more common to find.

Site provided because I thought it nice to have a company out there to provide the technical data to do the job as well as the parts with warranty. They have a real good selection of adapters based on your drive train desires.

As you can see, their branding preference is what they choose to "Certify" for their in-house buildups (for good reasons) not the only thing that would work as PP stated.

Personally, I choose new with warranty over used and hard to find.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 08:58 PM   #18
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4l60e setup for 4x4 is far more common to find, more expensive, requires computer controls, and usually has an undesirable transfer case connected to it.

Personally, I choose to spend money on unnecessary parts with warranty over used and hard to find because I don't know any better and simply read somewhere on an adapter site that they were hard to find.
Good luck, man.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 09:33 PM   #19
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Good luck, man.

Yeah, nice edit and nice try ass

BTW. Sales of used up?
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Old March 4th, 2008, 09:36 PM   #20
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Building them to the level you were using them at probably makes it justifiable, but that's not the build level, nor the brand comparison that we're kicking around here.
Surprisingly, at the time, they were only making 400hp if following the rulebook.

Yes, different animal, I was stating that so everyone would understand my opinion is based on experience, not google.

Any modification to a vehicle should be researched thoroughly so that it will fit the intended usage. I wouldn't put a NASCAR engine in a Jeep, or a GMC- it's not meant for that.

Using factory parts means taking advantage of millions of dollars of R&D and being relatively certain of functionality. But when your needs exceed what the factory may have offered then you need to determine what combination will work. If you aren't able to engineer it yourself, then you need to pay someone who can. Maybe some aftermarket companies seem to be using scare tactics to sell their product if you know how to mix and match, but for those that can't it's a way to get their rig built.

I'm not disagreeing with PP that much, just saying he might be a bit harsh there...
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