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Old March 4th, 2008, 09:49 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brods View Post
Wow you are just a ray of sunshine today
Sorry for being realistic and looking at all sides of things. Next time I will do the typical Pirate4x4, naxja, internet offroad board jump to my knees and start sucking anyone's dick who is as cool, cooler, not as cool, and no where near as cool as me's dick.

I mean thats how it works right?

As for my comparison of the mounds and the badlands, meh, brimy311 said it best earlier, either it was possible in a stock jeep on 31's or impassible by anything other then buggies on 40's and bigger. Being that I am bigger then a jeep on 31's and not on 40's it did make the trip somewhat disappointing in that aspect.

That comment does not include the quarry, but that is IS how I felt about the rest of the trails for the most part.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 10:04 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY View Post
That comment does not include the quarry, but that is IS how I felt about the rest of the trails for the most part.
Yeah, I have a good time in the quarry, but the rest of the trails aren't much of a challenge.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 10:06 AM   #43
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i dunno what you guys are talking about.. i got stuck on orange trail twice and had to winch out and broke on green trail..
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Old March 4th, 2008, 10:13 AM   #44
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Orange trail was fun.

The green trail is boring as hell. Up a hill that I Could drive a stock jeep up, down a hill I could drive a stock jeep down, up, down, up, down.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 10:16 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY View Post
Orange trail was fun.

The green trail is boring as hell. Up a hill that I Could drive a stock jeep up, down a hill I could drive a stock jeep down, up, down, up, down.
oh man .. you shoulda seen orange trail on sunday.. i got lost in those woods.. quads had tore it up so bad .. it was so muddy .. tracks going everywhere.. every hole was swallowing my taars..
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Old March 4th, 2008, 10:18 AM   #46
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LeRoy Jenkins lost his Taaars?
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Old March 4th, 2008, 10:18 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Sol Goode View Post
You should be an Econ teacher. Not sure what you would teach afte day 1 since this is all you reference

"Supply and demand is perhaps one of the most fundamental concepts of economics and it is the backbone of a market economy."

http://www.investopedia.com/universi...economics3.asp

Why dive deeper if not necessary?
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Old March 4th, 2008, 10:33 AM   #48
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To me, its good for things. As noted, the owner from Paragon didn't close willingly, and wants to run a park like this, and obviosuly, Troy doesn't want to any more. So let someone with passion about it take the place.

I don't have an issue paying $30, $50, $100 for entrance, if its a good park. I've got less money than many in my setup and I still have a tow rig / trailer / wheeler with $15-$20k invested.

Bryce, what do you have into your Geo, $10k or so? Is $40 more a weekend going to break you? What, can't afford the new 500hp rig, duramax, and trailblazer ss anymore? Boo hoo.

Can't compare it to the mounds, as the mounds isn't a privately owned place trying to make a living.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 10:35 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY View Post
How is the owner of a park that closed buying a park that is open a win win?

I am not saying it was his fault, but it makes you wonder.
Now that it's lunch I'll post on something I read earlier.

Chad, I know that you were out of wheeling for a while, but there is little questioning about the Paragon issue. Basically, he held a 25 year lease on what would otherwise be useless old coal mining land and ran the park on that. It was the land behind a large-for-the-area industrial park, and because the land was so rough, the originally didn't think they could develop it for more businesses at a profit.

That is until the landowner found that he could sell the land to the govt to try and open a large commercial airport.

Since it was in the public best interest, the local judge agreed with the landowner's flmsy reason for breaking the lease, knowing that the large influx of jobs was worth more to his voters than a bunch of non-locals having a place to wheel. This was pretty much the sentiment of all the local offiicials.

Paragon was an excellent park. It was larger and better setup than Badlands in every way except they did not have something comparable to the Badlands Machine shop, which has been closed anyway.

Every time that I returned to Paragon it was better than the time before. Maps got better, more trails, more difficult trails, trail maintenence, money invested back in the place. It makes me truly sad that those trails are lost, it was that good. Truthfully that place had the best wheeling of any place I've been, and I was there on 33s, 35s, and 39s and I never saw the entire place because there was so much to do.

During that same timeframe, the Badlands has remained the same not including the machine shop that grew from nothing to fabulous to out of business. The trails have stayed pretty much the same with only small improvements over the years I've been there.

Troy was a revolutionary in setting up the pay-to-play park setup, and deserves kudos for doing so; but Kyle showed with Paragon how to take it to the next level.

The fact that you are coming back from the Badlands not 100% satisfied shows that it could use improvements, and with the experiences I've had at Paragon, I'd say Kyle is capable of bring those improvements in.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 10:39 AM   #50
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something else to consider is the mud. While the entry fee may be less at the Mounds, I spend $15 on cleaning the damn mud off my rig when I get home. And then it still seems like there is residue left over.

You talk about driving up and down a hill boring, but what is different at the mounds? Drive thru the mud hole, turn around, drive thru the mud hole, turn around.

It is the same there, if you are stock or smaller than 31's, you are limited. Until you go big, then you can just be one of the folks tearing it up so it does limit the smaller rigs.

The Badlands has variety. Kyle is someone with a passion for the sport. I think it will do nothing but improve and become a destination for the wheeling community.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 10:41 AM   #51
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That clears it up quite a bit, I did not know the whole paragon story but did not think it was totally his fault either.

Seems troy has lost interest in the badlands based on my observations of being there in 2000ish and again in 2008.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 10:45 AM   #52
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Never mind JohnnyJ said it better. One of the things tha both PAP and RC did was to have local wheeling clubs do trail cuttings. This allows the actual wheelers to pick how dificult the trails will be. Hopefully Kyle will bring that trail cutting policy to the Badlands.
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Last edited by Brods; March 4th, 2008 at 10:58 AM.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 11:08 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
Bryce, what do you have into your Geo, $10k or so? Is $40 more a weekend going to break you? What, can't afford the new 500hp rig, duramax, and trailblazer ss anymore? Boo hoo.
perhaps you are confusing my statements with rocktoy's?

Quote:
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huh, I just hope it continues on.... if the place ends up closing I am seriously going to reconsider 4 wheeling while im living in michigan
I made my statement relative to time not money, if im driving 8+ hours to go wheeling then it might not be worth doing. I would rather take the $500 and 3-5 days off and use it more constructively.

and the last time I checked I had a little over 25k into the tracker
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Old March 4th, 2008, 11:20 AM   #54
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The badlands is out of room as well... they are going to have to get pretty creative. Maybe close a ton of trails down and let them grow.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 11:24 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY View Post
LeRoy Jenkins lost his Taaars?
:o ... no more taars wer lost on sunday .. we i think chris is at like 20lbs each taar :D
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Old March 4th, 2008, 11:58 AM   #56
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Never mind JohnnyJ said it better. One of the things tha both PAP and RC did was to have local wheeling clubs do trail cuttings. This allows the actual wheelers to pick how dificult the trails will be. Hopefully Kyle will bring that trail cutting policy to the Badlands.
Trail cutting is not the problem there, as monkey evil said it appears they are out of room. The badlands needs some creative trail construction on it's existing trails.

I now understand what you and johnny are saying and I agree this could be a good thing, I was unawre of the whole reason why the Paragon park closed. I was also unaware of the way they took suggestions from the wheelers on how to make the trails better.

The gravel pits and dunes at the badlands are completely untapped for badass hill climbs. Instead they are just sand hills right now. With some creative rocks, cement, etc. they could make some very cool climbs and trails in some of the bowls that are pretty much unused.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 12:03 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
"Supply and demand is perhaps one of the most fundamental concepts of economics and it is the backbone of a market economy."

http://www.investopedia.com/universi...economics3.asp

Why dive deeper if not necessary?

woah!

Who needs University of Chicago Econ grads when we have you?
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Old March 4th, 2008, 12:21 PM   #58
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Explains who they could build that nice house posted above.

$20 a day seems fair to get into a park....$30 a day for a single person seems steep.

Heck I think Turtle Rig is $20-25 for one driver. Its an additional $5 if you have a second driver....I'm sure other parts are that way.
troy and his buddy built that house for around $250,000 and 0bviously none of you are self empolyed and have ever payed for liabilty insurance...
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Old March 4th, 2008, 12:25 PM   #59
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woah!

Who needs University of Chicago Econ grads when we have you?
sorry, you can't pull it off as good as hag-gar or uproktoy
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Old March 4th, 2008, 12:51 PM   #60
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sorry, you can't pull it off as good as hag-gar or uproktoy
Try as we all may, none of us will ever be as cool as you.
























Though supply and demand is what makes the world go 'round there is a lot more to it then that.
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