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Old February 25th, 2008, 09:06 PM   #21
scottie
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Originally Posted by Quagmire View Post
What has a Touota engine in it?

Ever Drive one just an overall pos in my mind
yeah the only onese i haven't driven are the Saab Version and the Isuzu Version.

Yeah they suck, but they'd be cool with a manual trans and a diesel (every americans wet dream) and a suspension not made of jello
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Old February 25th, 2008, 10:55 PM   #22
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I think they should have tried to make their existing brands not suck rather than inventing new ones.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 04:56 AM   #23
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Everytime I read these threads by you guys I realize how out of touch I've become with the auto industry.
I have no idea anymore of who makes what and what they came from.

And Scotty, you need to move to the west coast.:tonka:
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Old February 26th, 2008, 05:15 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Kodiak450r View Post
kinda funny about saturns...the outlook uses a honda powertrain, pontiacs use a toyota powertrain on 1 or 2 models maybe more not sure. GM is using foreign drivetrains in a few brands now. weather it's actually saving them money or not i'm not sure. i know it makes parts finding intersting. IMO saturns served there purpose back in the day but there still junk compared to the generals main brands chevy GMC pontiac.
"Back in the day" when Saturn had a great product & following, you were just a toddler. They weren't junk...they run a long time, and had a great reputation.

I haven't kept up with Saturn in recent years, but my neighbor bought an old one with just under 200K miles to use as a commuter ($500). It still looks and runs great...just uses a little oil.

I don't buy into the plush vehicle upgrade scene, so I'm still fond of the original Saturns, and wish they were still an option.

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Old February 26th, 2008, 06:02 AM   #25
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The Saturn SUV is there because Saturn does have a cult type following. You see the people that try out a Saturn and never buy anything else. For example, one of my neighbors bought a Saturn back in the 90's, since then everyone in their family is driving them. I think they have five now. Another of Saturn's traits was the dealership experience. It was designed to be different than anything else that GM had to offer.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 06:48 AM   #26
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You guys need to drink beer with CC's neighbor.:tonka:
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Old February 26th, 2008, 07:05 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by 88yj View Post
Most consumers don't understand platform sharing and it doesn't matter unless the sheetmetal is the same like 1980.
I disagree. Quite a few consumers (and not just in Michigan) understand that for the most part they can shop each and any of the basic GM divisions against each other even now after Oldsmobile left the picture.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 07:08 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
He means badge engineering, or at least platform/component sharing.

Yes, IMO, Saturn was a bad decision. In the short term, it worked OK, due to more or less having one vehicle, in couple, sedan, and SW forms.

The problem runs into when those buyers want to stay in the brand but don't want to drive a little shitbox anymore.

They had very high loyalty, needed somewhere for them to go. To then develop a complete parallel company wasn't going to work, too expensive. Look at why the Torrent/Equinox were so late, because the Vue's unibody wasn't comparible with the steel bodywork..

Now, they are just the american version of Opel.

Saturn Vue = Opel Antarra
Saturn Sky = Opel GT
Saturn Astra = Opel Astra
Saturn Aura = Opel Vectra

the only one thats not is the Outlook, which is the acadia twin..
I believe the Sky shares the same platform as the Pontiac Solstice.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 07:10 AM   #29
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yeah the only onese i haven't driven are the Saab Version and the Isuzu Version.

Yeah they suck, but they'd be cool with a manual trans and a diesel (every americans wet dream) and a suspension not made of jello
I'm American, born, bred, raised. Even in a GM/UAW family, and a diesel is not my wet dream.

Ever since I saw my first Lemans/Formula 1 Races on TV, I have loved the shriek of small displacement high revving engines.

small tossable cars like old Porsche 911's, and even MG's have always appealed to me more than 'muscle' cars, or low revving torque monsters.

while I can certainly appreciate Detroit Iron, and even have a soft spot in my heart for late 60s Chevy/Pontiac's I always find myself gravitating back to more go-kart like offerings.

*shrug*
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Old February 26th, 2008, 07:11 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Red68Camaro View Post
I believe the Sky shares the same platform as the Pontiac Solstice.
which is also an opel
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Old February 26th, 2008, 07:16 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
They didn't really do any better on fuel economy compared to the tahoe's. With the market wanting unibody based crossovers, the outlook/acadia vehicles make good sense, where the trailblazer replacements were just overlap.
not better on fuel economy, but the price of entry into a trail blazer was significantly lower than for a tahoe. With GM's acceptance that they could't/wouldn't build a decent minivan, the Trailblazer was about the only option for some family's to consider for Northern climates if they wanted to stay GM, and/or use their GM discount.

I've got a friend - a GM Engineer that is really struggling with what to buy/lease when he has to turn in his old 3 row trailblazer... Being a true pragmatic type of engineer he can't see stepping up to a 50k vehicle for hauling kids when he's living in a 200k house... can't say I blame him...

Neighbor across the street, works for a tier 1 supplier - turned in their 3 row trail blazer and didn't feel like overpaying for the Acadia/TwinOfferings and grabbed a TaurusX.

GM is doing a lot right and being pretty innovative on some fronts - but at the same time doing quite a bit of wierd things if ya' ask me.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 07:18 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by RyeBread View Post
which is also an opel
x2.......I believe their also is a Daewoo version.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 07:39 AM   #33
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Saturn was started to sell decent economical cars and try and change the stereotype of dealerships.

The decent park didn't work out so well, although some of them do last a long time.

I don't think the dealership stereotype has changed or ever will, and Saturn is just another nameplate under GM.

I will say though that their new line-up is really sharp looking, and I was considering an Aura as a new vehicle.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 07:49 AM   #34
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Here is my thing on Saturn. They Drop Olds to go after the younger age group. Well now you look at the stuff you can get on the Saturn cars and see how they had to draw in the older people again.

I always like Olds. Yea the were the same thing as Chevy/Pontiac/Buick car but they always looked better to me. On o n car that I love more than any other GM is the 2nd Gen Aroura. That Car is Sleek looking and Damn nice.

I know that back in 2002 GM traded Toyota the use of ONStar for some motors.
(the ONStar that Toytoa will et will have a name for them but use there set up.)
That why the Vibe/Matrix/Corolla are the Same basic car. First Joint thing from that deal. (I dont know when they will be getting it but I know this from going to school for the GM ASEP program)
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Old February 26th, 2008, 07:57 AM   #35
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I was considering an Aura as a new vehicle.
You would :tonka:






LOL @ this thread.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 08:00 AM   #36
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front drive vehicles suck period.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 08:08 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Red68Camaro View Post
I believe the Sky shares the same platform as the Pontiac Solstice.
Its not about the platform sharing. Its about those are identical sheetmetal. Thanks for trying, though.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 08:17 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY View Post
You would :tonka:






LOL @ this thread.
Notice I didn't mention how long I was considering, which was about 30 seconds when I saw a black Aura XR with tint and thought it looked good.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 08:20 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stan View Post
Everytime I read these threads by you guys I realize how out of touch I've become with the auto industry.
I have no idea anymore of who makes what and what they came from.
GM is the only of the big 3 really doing things on a global scale. Our current program is working with GM design centers on 4 continents. Saab out of trollhaaten Sweden, Opel in russelsheim Germany, Buick in Shanghai China, Holden in Melbourne Australia, and Chevy/Cadillac out of Warren.

The industry is a different place than it used to be. Aw, but what do I know, I only make gages, right...


I think their latest move with Saturn is a good thing, pushing it back to where it was intended, but with a full scale lineup.

Opel is a basic German car, they are basic and cheap. But, being designed in Germany, they still have a level of refinement and feature set that is different from American cars. So bringing here, slapping a Saturn badge on it, its fairly easy. Not exactly a new strategy - the old Saturn LS and the Cadillac Catera were modified Opels.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 08:55 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
Its not about the platform sharing. Its about those are identical sheetmetal. Thanks for trying, though.
Excluding the sheetmetal/exterior trim. Most of the commodities are common.....I.E. Airbags, sterring wheel, I/P etc. Try that!
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