Was Saturn a good move for GM? - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > The Pub
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

The Pub A friendly forum where everybody is nice, and will answer any questions you have about life.

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 25th, 2008, 05:58 PM   #1
motrctyman
Just The Spouse's spouse
 
motrctyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-12-05
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 1,881
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default Was Saturn a good move for GM?

I thought Saturn was developed to compete against the ricers. Did it do what it was supposed to? Should it be merged into other GM brands?
motrctyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old February 25th, 2008, 06:05 PM   #2
Smiley23
Senior Member
 
Smiley23's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-21-07
Location: MI
Posts: 2,153
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by motrctyman View Post
I thought Saturn was developed to compete against the ricers. Did it do what it was supposed to? Should it be merged into other GM brands?
It is not a GM brand? .
Smiley23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 06:13 PM   #3
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,641
iTrader: (55)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smiley23 View Post
It is not a GM brand? .
He means badge engineering, or at least platform/component sharing.

Yes, IMO, Saturn was a bad decision. In the short term, it worked OK, due to more or less having one vehicle, in couple, sedan, and SW forms.

The problem runs into when those buyers want to stay in the brand but don't want to drive a little shitbox anymore.

They had very high loyalty, needed somewhere for them to go. To then develop a complete parallel company wasn't going to work, too expensive. Look at why the Torrent/Equinox were so late, because the Vue's unibody wasn't comparible with the steel bodywork..

Now, they are just the american version of Opel.

Saturn Vue = Opel Antarra
Saturn Sky = Opel GT
Saturn Astra = Opel Astra
Saturn Aura = Opel Vectra

the only one thats not is the Outlook, which is the acadia twin..
Haggar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 06:44 PM   #4
scottie
American Leyland??
 
scottie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Sweet home Georgia on my mind
Posts: 8,488
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to scottie
Default

saturn was actually a good idea at the time, but turned out to be poorly executed.

You can't have that many brands and expect anything good out of it.


Now saturns are just badged engineered cars, that have taken the place of Oldsmobile (you know the import fighter it was at the end, not the gray hair cars)
scottie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:04 PM   #5
88yj
collecting parts
 
88yj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-09-06
Location: Monroe, Mi
Posts: 1,292
iTrader: (26)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to 88yj
Default

Saturn may be badge engineered, but I'm all for domestic Opels.
88yj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:13 PM   #6
scottie
American Leyland??
 
scottie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Sweet home Georgia on my mind
Posts: 8,488
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to scottie
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 88yj View Post
Saturn may be badge engineered, but I'm all for domestic Opels.
i was speaking more of Trucks, vans, and Suv's and some Cars.


I'll take all the european GM cars i can get my hands on
scottie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:16 PM   #7
88yj
collecting parts
 
88yj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-09-06
Location: Monroe, Mi
Posts: 1,292
iTrader: (26)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to 88yj
Default

What Saturn truck exists? No vans either. Are you complaining about Saturn or GM?
88yj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:22 PM   #8
scottie
American Leyland??
 
scottie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Sweet home Georgia on my mind
Posts: 8,488
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to scottie
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 88yj View Post
What Saturn truck exists? No vans either. Are you complaining about Saturn or GM?
GM in general, now that they Saturn engineering isn't seperate from teh rest.

I'm still upset about Uplanders, Relay, Terraza, SV6

why the Hell does GM need Acadia, Outlook, Enclave, insert chevy here

anyone want a 97-x, Trailblazer, Envoy, Rainer, Bravada, Ascender

or a Colorado, Canyon, Iwhateverenginetheyuse

G6, Malibu, Aura

Impala, Monte, Lacrosse, Grand prix (1986 called they want their chasis back)

I thought GM was trying to build brand recognition with their cars, not just play psuedo 80's all over again and try and make all the dealers sell the same models?

Last edited by scottie; February 25th, 2008 at 08:27 PM.
scottie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:26 PM   #9
High Center Hancho
rack tap re-rack click
 
High Center Hancho's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-10-07
Location: Genesee County
Posts: 13,042
iTrader: (40)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 88yj View Post
Saturn may be badge engineered, but I'm all for domestic Opels.

heck yes...Opel was my first car...I loved that thing
High Center Hancho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:27 PM   #10
88yj
collecting parts
 
88yj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-09-06
Location: Monroe, Mi
Posts: 1,292
iTrader: (26)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to 88yj
Default

The Chevy is Traverse.

Half of those models you mention are either not in production, or totally new in the last year or so. The Lambda quad are all nice. The Malibu and Aura are nice. The short answer to the question is incremental sales.

Think that killing off a division means people just go buy a platform mate? Not exactly. GM didn't keep the people who were buying Olds just like Chrysler lost Plymouth buyers. Most consumers don't understand platform sharing and it doesn't matter unless the sheetmetal is the same like 1980.
88yj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:29 PM   #11
scottie
American Leyland??
 
scottie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Sweet home Georgia on my mind
Posts: 8,488
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to scottie
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 88yj View Post
The Chevy is Traverse.

Half of those models you mention are either not in production, or totally new in the last year or so. The Lambda quad are all nice. The Malibu and Aura are nice. The short answer to the question is incremental sales.

Think that killing off a division means people just go buy a platform mate? Not exactly. GM didn't keep the people who were buying Olds just like Chrysler lost Plymouth buyers. Most consumers don't understand platform sharing and it doesn't matter unless the sheetmetal is the same like 1980.
i'm pretty sure the G5 and the Cobalt share some sheet metal :tonka:

along with teh Canyon, colorado, and i2700/3700

and the ones that don't share sheetmetal you can still tell are the same car, GM still hasn't quite Perfected teh Platform like others
scottie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:33 PM   #12
88yj
collecting parts
 
88yj's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-09-06
Location: Monroe, Mi
Posts: 1,292
iTrader: (26)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to 88yj
Default

re Isuzu: http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-b...,6669474.story

Yeah, G5/Cobalt and Canyon/Colorado share some metal, but that's not the same as every platform sharing metal. I'm not saying they should look alike, but the G5/Cobalt have slim profits. I don't think small truck buyers care that much about the sheetmetal between Chevy and GMC right now.
88yj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:34 PM   #13
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,641
iTrader: (55)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottie View Post
I'm still upset about Uplanders, Relay, Terraza, SV6

why the Hell does GM need Acadia, Outlook, Enclave, insert chevy here

anyone want a 97-x, Trailblazer, Envoy, Rainer, Bravada, Ascender

or a Colorado, Canyon, Iwhateverenginetheyuse

G6, Malibu, Aura

Impala, Monte, Lacrosse, Grand prix (1986 called they want their chasis back)

I thought GM was trying to build brand recognition with their cars, not just play psuedo 80's all over again and try and make all the dealers sell the same models?
So, the minivans are long dead and GMT511/512 was cancelled a while back..

The trailblazers are in their last year and GMT561 was cancelled...

G6/Aura/Malibu/Vectra is a pretty decent platform. Each is sufficently different, they aren't badge engineering, they are a decent use of platform engineering.

Lacrosse is moving zeta (rwd), impala will, if it gets out of business hold, grand prix is dead...
Haggar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:46 PM   #14
Kodiak450r
Keep on truckin
 
Kodiak450r's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-14-07
Location: Waterford, MI
Posts: 5,911
iTrader: (19)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

kinda funny about saturns...the outlook uses a honda powertrain, pontiacs use a toyota powertrain on 1 or 2 models maybe more not sure. GM is using foreign drivetrains in a few brands now. weather it's actually saving them money or not i'm not sure. i know it makes parts finding intersting. IMO saturns served there purpose back in the day but there still junk compared to the generals main brands chevy GMC pontiac.
Kodiak450r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:46 PM   #15
scottie
American Leyland??
 
scottie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Sweet home Georgia on my mind
Posts: 8,488
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to scottie
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
So, the minivans are long dead and GMT511/512 was cancelled a while back..

The trailblazers are in their last year and GMT561 was cancelled...

G6/Aura/Malibu/Vectra is a pretty decent platform. Each is sufficently different, they aren't badge engineering, they are a decent use of platform engineering.

Lacrosse is moving zeta (rwd), impala will, if it gets out of business hold, grand prix is dead...
yes i know the G6/aura/malibu are different enough, that doesn't bother me, its a midsize car.

But why does Saturn , the brand that was started to be an economy brand, need an SUV that any customer can essentially buy the same thing at the GMC dealer. or the other way around, Why does GMC need one, aren't they supposed to build trucks, not half ass minivan/suv things

And the W-wody should have never had a 3rd Generation


the only reason why brought up the minivans is that they came out after Bobby said they were done badge engineering. Those Minivans were the definition of Badge engineering, and a horrible execution of the car in general.


and i Fail to see the reasoning to kill trailblazers, Mid size real Suv's with a diesel would be cool.
scottie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:50 PM   #16
scottie
American Leyland??
 
scottie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Sweet home Georgia on my mind
Posts: 8,488
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to scottie
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak450r View Post
the outlook uses a honda powertrain, pontiacs use a toyota powertrain on 1 or 2 models maybe more not sure. GM is using foreign drivetrains in a few brands now.

UMMMM no, Outlook is GM drivetrain, Vue had a honda engine available, Pontiac (singular) uses a toyota powertrain (vibe).



And i'm not sure where GM is using any other foreign drivetrains in a few brands now comes from

Unless you mean Aveo-daewoo
Saab 92-x=Subaru

other than that..........
scottie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:55 PM   #17
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,641
iTrader: (55)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak450r View Post
kinda funny about saturns...the outlook uses a honda powertrain, pontiacs use a toyota powertrain on 1 or 2 models maybe more not sure. GM is using foreign drivetrains in a few brands now. weather it's actually saving them money or not i'm not sure. i know it makes parts finding intersting. IMO saturns served there purpose back in the day but there still junk compared to the generals main brands chevy GMC pontiac.
For a couple years, the old Vue used the Honda 3.5 liter. The new Vue has various versions of the GM 3.6 liter HVV6.
Haggar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 08:56 PM   #18
scottie
American Leyland??
 
scottie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Sweet home Georgia on my mind
Posts: 8,488
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to scottie
Default

[QUOTE=88yj;972287. I don't think small truck buyers care that much about the sheetmetal between Chevy and GMC right now.[/QUOTE]

What small trucks???


I'm still crying about Isuzu, Pup, Rodeo, AMigo, VehiCross, Axiom, Stylus, Impulse,


scottie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 09:03 PM   #19
Quagmire
I can has layinframe
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: 48346
Posts: 5,039
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to Quagmire
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kodiak450r View Post
kinda funny about saturns...the outlook uses a honda powertrain, pontiacs use a toyota powertrain on 1 or 2 models maybe more not sure. GM is using foreign drivetrains in a few brands now. weather it's actually saving them money or not i'm not sure. i know it makes parts finding intersting. IMO saturns served there purpose back in the day but there still junk compared to the generals main brands chevy GMC pontiac.
What has a Touota engine in it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottie View Post


the only reason why brought up the minivans is that they came out after Bobby said they were done badge engineering. Those Minivans were the definition of Badge engineering, and a horrible execution of the car in general.

Defanately those things are the suck

and i Fail to see the reasoning to kill trailblazers, Mid size real Suv's with a diesel would be cool.
Ever Drive one just an overall pos in my mind
__________________
Google first.....ask questions later
Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
Actually, the new rule of thumb is you should make your tires bulge slightly more then skooterbuilt when he's wearing his tight ladies pants
Quagmire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2008, 09:04 PM   #20
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,641
iTrader: (55)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottie View Post
yes i know the G6/aura/malibu are different enough, that doesn't bother me, its a midsize car.

But why does Saturn , the brand that was started to be an economy brand, need an SUV that any customer can essentially buy the same thing at the GMC dealer. or the other way around, Why does GMC need one, aren't they supposed to build trucks, not half ass minivan/suv things

and i Fail to see the reasoning to kill trailblazers, Mid size real Suv's with a diesel would be cool.
Saturn wasn't necessariliy meant to be an economy car, but a no-worries trouble free car. Geo was designed to be the economy car branch.

The saturn brand was targeted towards why people by toyota and honda - they are a little more, for the lack of a better term, sophisticated. Don't want flash, was something more solid, more refined. The saturn brand is mophing into that.

Chevy = white bread americanan
Pontiac = 'sporty'
Saturn = Euro-styling
GMC = luxury trucks


As for the trailblazers, they are quite outdated, so its time to kill them. Their replacements were fully quoted, but later cancelled. The body-on-frame architecture was mainly for towing capacity. They didn't really do any better on fuel economy compared to the tahoe's. With the market wanting unibody based crossovers, the outlook/acadia vehicles make good sense, where the trailblazer replacements were just overlap.

LOL, the two progrms I worked on before getting onto Epsilon 2/Theta Epsilon/Zeta, was working on the replacement for the minivans, and the replacement for the trailblazer.
Haggar is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > The Pub

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:23 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.41018 seconds with 80 queries