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Old March 26th, 2006, 11:26 PM   #1
Mclovin
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Default Ok question about Private property postings

So Noodles and I are out 2 tracking tonight.. we're on SEASONAL ROADS surrounded by STATE LAND.. So we come along this what looks to be an old logging trail. So we say alright looks cool.. so we start up through a nice lil pit at the beginning (it hit 66 degrees today so it was nice and muddy) Little tough, Noodles keeps on the trail while i wait at the beginning So i start down to my truck to come up onto the trail when this guy pulls up and i walked up to his truck and sai hi to him and the guy starts basicly SCREAMING at me telling me that's private property and We need to get the fukc out of there !! i was like alright man sorry (i wasnt about to start an argument with an angry old man in the middle of the woods) so anyway there were NO posting of the no tresspassing or Private property ANYWHERE and this is supposedly state owned land.. Were we in the wrong for checking out this trail ?? i could care less cause nothing came of it but i mean here i am trying to be nice to the guy and friendly and he just starts Going off on me for "tresspassing" on "his" property, it just peeves me off the disrespect wheelers get for this kinda of a thing, A simple hey man thats private property u need to leave, would've worked fine !

I feel it nessacary to give detailed directions to everyone on this board and have them go out there and wheel it up but that would be childish and un-called for..
I am always very respectful about private property but this WAS NOT even posted anywhere ! oh well no harm no foul.. END RANT !
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Old March 27th, 2006, 05:45 AM   #2
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Here's what I came up with from the Michigan Compiled Laws. There's a lot of legal mumbo jumbo to wade through, but essentially it says you can't be there if it IS posted or fenced, and you can't be there if it's NOT posted or fenced.


324.81133 Operation of ORV; prohibited acts.
"Failure to post private property or fence or otherwise enclose in a manner to exclude intruders or of the private property owner or other authorized person to personally communicate against trespass does not imply consent to ORV use."

324.73102 Entering or remaining on property of another; consent; exceptions.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person shall not enter or remain upon the property of another person, other than farm property or a wooded area connected to farm property, to engage in any recreational activity or trapping on that property without the consent of the owner or his or her lessee or agent, if either of the following circumstances exists:

(a) The property is fenced or enclosed and is maintained in such a manner as to exclude intruders.

(b) The property is posted in a conspicuous manner against entry. The minimum letter height on the posting signs shall be 1 inch. Each posting sign shall be not less than 50 square inches, and the signs shall be spaced to enable a person to observe not less than 1 sign at any point of entry upon the property.

(2) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person shall not enter or remain upon farm property or a wooded area connected to farm property for any recreational activity or trapping without the consent of the owner or his or her lessee or agent, whether or not the farm property or wooded area connected to farm property is fenced, enclosed, or posted.

(3) On fenced or posted property or farm property, a fisherman wading or floating a navigable public stream may, without written or oral consent, enter upon property within the clearly defined banks of the stream or, without damaging farm products, walk a route as closely proximate to the clearly defined bank as possible when necessary to avoid a natural or artificial hazard or obstruction, including, but not limited to, a dam, deep hole, or a fence or other exercise of ownership by the riparian owner.

(4) A person other than a person possessing a firearm may, unless previously prohibited in writing or orally by the property owner or his or her lessee or agent, enter on foot upon the property of another person for the sole purpose of retrieving a hunting dog. The person shall not remain on the property beyond the reasonable time necessary to retrieve the dog. In an action under section 73109 or 73110, the burden of showing that the property owner or his or her lessee or agent previously prohibited entry under this subsection is on the plaintiff or prosecuting attorney, respectively.

(5) Consent to enter or remain upon the property of another person pursuant to this section may be given orally or in writing. The consent may establish conditions for entering or remaining upon that property. Unless prohibited in the written consent, a written consent may be amended or revoked orally. If the owner or his or her lessee or agent requires all persons entering or remaining upon the property to have written consent, the presence of the person on the property without written consent is prima facie evidence of unlawful entry.
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Old March 27th, 2006, 05:53 AM   #3
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the one thing I always have with me are the county road atlas. its a life saver for knowing what is state land Vs. Private. the state land is plotted out to the 1/4 mile and its very easy to see where you could have strayed off the trail.

However.. I have seen folks try and say State land was someones Private property to keep you out of it. they have gone as far as to hang gates and wire accrossed legal forest roads.
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Old March 27th, 2006, 06:27 AM   #4
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one more thing I have always used to my benifit are Platt maps. i get them from the realestate office. go in and get some property listings to check out and then get all the platts for the area. then if some old fart comes to bother you tell him your looking at buying the property
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Old March 27th, 2006, 11:24 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zookeeper
Here's what I came up with from the Michigan Compiled Laws. There's a lot of legal mumbo jumbo to wade through, but essentially it says you can't be there if it IS posted or fenced, and you can't be there if it's NOT posted or fenced.


324.81133 Operation of ORV; prohibited acts.
"Failure to post private property or fence or otherwise enclose in a manner to exclude intruders or of the private property owner or other authorized person to personally communicate against trespass does not imply consent to ORV use."

324.73102 Entering or remaining on property of another; consent; exceptions.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person shall not enter or remain upon the property of another person, other than farm property or a wooded area connected to farm property, to engage in any recreational activity or trapping on that property without the consent of the owner or his or her lessee or agent, if either of the following circumstances exists:

(a) The property is fenced or enclosed and is maintained in such a manner as to exclude intruders.

(b) The property is posted in a conspicuous manner against entry. The minimum letter height on the posting signs shall be 1 inch. Each posting sign shall be not less than 50 square inches, and the signs shall be spaced to enable a person to observe not less than 1 sign at any point of entry upon the property.

(2) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person shall not enter or remain upon farm property or a wooded area connected to farm property for any recreational activity or trapping without the consent of the owner or his or her lessee or agent, whether or not the farm property or wooded area connected to farm property is fenced, enclosed, or posted.

(3) On fenced or posted property or farm property, a fisherman wading or floating a navigable public stream may, without written or oral consent, enter upon property within the clearly defined banks of the stream or, without damaging farm products, walk a route as closely proximate to the clearly defined bank as possible when necessary to avoid a natural or artificial hazard or obstruction, including, but not limited to, a dam, deep hole, or a fence or other exercise of ownership by the riparian owner.

(4) A person other than a person possessing a firearm may, unless previously prohibited in writing or orally by the property owner or his or her lessee or agent, enter on foot upon the property of another person for the sole purpose of retrieving a hunting dog. The person shall not remain on the property beyond the reasonable time necessary to retrieve the dog. In an action under section 73109 or 73110, the burden of showing that the property owner or his or her lessee or agent previously prohibited entry under this subsection is on the plaintiff or prosecuting attorney, respectively.

(5) Consent to enter or remain upon the property of another person pursuant to this section may be given orally or in writing. The consent may establish conditions for entering or remaining upon that property. Unless prohibited in the written consent, a written consent may be amended or revoked orally. If the owner or his or her lessee or agent requires all persons entering or remaining upon the property to have written consent, the presence of the person on the property without written consent is prima facie evidence of unlawful entry.
Wow thanks for all the info, but from that info it seems we were in the Right being on that trail last night.. Not to mention that guy had NO RIGHT to speak to me the way he did !! and Yetti thanks for that info ill prob swing by and grab some maps sometime this week
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Old March 27th, 2006, 11:34 AM   #6
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i wanted to hit the guy, just bcause he was a dick. becides, even if we were trusspassing, what harm were we doing going on a trail that is used by a log skidder? there was no tire tracks from a truck in there before us and there is only our tracks there now. its just.. wtf.. ya know? i can understand him being pissed about people tearing up the roads that he needs to go down, but one.. they are really crapy, and not maintained, and 2 its other people. i personlay try not to screw them up or make them impassible.

all of our pits and trails we go on are off of the roads, so the guy just wanted to be a dick. i give props to MG for handling it the way he did. I would have gotten in the guys face if he was talking to me like that.
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Old April 6th, 2006, 04:07 PM   #7
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Default Side comment about County Roads

I know you're asking about a trail OFF to the SIDE of a seasonal road, but . . .

I have a 38 page dissertation written by the Muskegon County Road Commision's staff of attorneys. It gives a bit of history of the McNitt Act and then delves into the court cases that have shaped what is and isn't a road and what the rules are for their use, incorporation into the system, and abandonment.

Keep in mind that a county atlas (even the Michigan Gazetteer) is NOT necessarilly accurate!!!!!!!!

The only way to be sure it is STILL a legal road is to ask the CRC if a road in question appears on the Counties CERTIFICATION maps. These are the maps that tell the State which roads the county claims for the purposes of road funding.

If anyone wants a copy of the dissertation, let me know.
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Old April 6th, 2006, 09:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yetti

However.. I have seen folks try and say State land was someones Private property to keep you out of it. they have gone as far as to hang gates and wire accrossed legal forest roads.
I had a bird hunter stop me once on a two track and tell me it was private property, and I couldn't go down it. I new it wasn't and after talking to him for a minute he admitted he was lying. He was just trying to keep people away from his hunting area.

I would say the Platt maps are the best bet to let you now who owns what...by one for the county you ride in the most.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 01:52 AM   #9
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i might look in to getting them. the roads have street signs.well stop signs on them and they all have it posted that they are seasional roads. but we are just staying away from there.
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