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Old January 31st, 2008, 08:04 PM   #21
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Old January 31st, 2008, 09:53 PM   #22
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Any of you cons ever collect unemployment? Instead of thanking the libs for it still being there you blame the libs for having to collect it in the first place.

The difference between cons and libs is that cons are looking for blame, libs are looking for solutions. It is especially obvious in open conversation when there's a group of cons together whining about everything from those damn immigrants to those damn liberals.

The roots of the two terms: republican and democrat come from the words republic and democracy. I would be surprised if you can tell me the difference between the two without looking it up, but I am going to explain anyway:

A republic is a society that is founded on the rights of the individual, where the individual is protected from the group.

A democracy is a society that is founded on the well being of the majority (as in voting.... The democratic process).

Because it was feared that a straight democracy would be like 3 wolves and a chicken voting on what was for dinner, we became a democratic republic.

Note the two words were in the sentence together. They are not mutually exclusive. They are not even contradictory. They are supposed to be complementary. Thus the Constitution AND the Bill of Rights.

America is supposed to utilize the democratic process to protect the rights of its people.

This requires contributions from everyone, and ideally the rate of contribution should be fair and equitable. But how does one go about deciding what is fair and equitable?

If a corporation uses our highway system in one day more than I use it in a lifetime because they have huge fleets of trucks travelling on them 24/7, shouldn't they pay a higher share of the taxes that service the highways?

Look guys, I'm not saying that the average person should be paying all these taxes. I'm saying that the corporations should. Why?

Because taxes skyrocketed as a direct result of Reagans "tax cuts" in the eighties when he cut taxes for the wealthy so that they would invest and the returns would "trickle down". My taxes didn't get cut then. Did yours?

G.H.W. Bush and G. W. Bush have both shown massive spending during their administrations on all kinds of crazy shit, the latest being the Office of Faith Based Initiatives... I mean come on. Aren't we supposed to at least seperate church and state? And I would bet that the people that run this office make a hell of alot more money than you or I. And the most interesting part is that they both "cut taxes", yet my taxes never went down. Did yours?

During the Clinton administration I paid the same taxes I paid during both Bush administrations. No difference. Not higher, not lower. Interesting thing though is that he signed NAFTA, AND he passed the Federal Telecommunications Act that effectively put control of all of our media in the hands of a few giant corporations. Sounds like the dems are no better.

So G.W. Bush doesn't raise our taxes when we are spending $2 trillion in Iraq. How does he pay for it? Well, things like borrowing from China. Now they have a stake in America, and he never asked us if it was okay. If it had been put to vote, would you have voted to pay more taxes for the "war" (occupation) in Iraq, or sign our economy over to China?

Well? How would you vote?

I want my country back, but I also want to be able to pull back the reins on the greedy and the wreckless so that this country and all of its beauty will be here for our kids, and their kids, and their kids. Bush anbd his corporate and Saudi cronies don't care about that. Do you?

This requires contributions from everyone, and ideally the rate of contribution should be fair and equitable. But how does one go about deciding what is fair and equitable?

If you pay 10% on each dollar you earn and I pay 10% on each dollar I earn sounds good to me. I'am opposed to me paying 30 40 or 50% on each dollar I earn when you only have to pay 10%. You can't convince me that is fair.


If a corporation uses our highway system in one day more than I use it in a lifetime because they have huge fleets of trucks travelling on them 24/7, shouldn't they pay a higher share of the taxes that service the highways?

If a corporation is using the highway in that manor then they are infact paying more than you, it's called gas tax. Also if you look at the license fee's charged you will see they pay more than you do in a decade of license fees. Ask any company owner with vehicles on the road what their insurance costs you'll be surprised. Mine just came down from over $60,000.00 a year. Furthermore corporations and the ever so lucky small buisness owners also pay taxes on the profits they make from traveling the roads.
Did you know that your employer is required to pay an additopnal amount of S.S. tax over and above what is held from your check. Sweet you work for me I pay you so tax me more, Nobody ever see's that money that is a liberal tax.

I tell my kid's thing's aren't always fair, to put additional burden on someone who has had a little good luck beating their brains out in a buisness is not only unfair it is down right criminal.
You know how I feel about our government be it democrat or republican. The entire system needs to be gutted and the life long polititons need to go.

One little tid bit George Bush isn't running. That seems to be something the dems keep forgetting. Take a good look at the circus thats running and tell me we are not in for a mess. Lets see a vote for Hillery, why, well she is a woman and you could be part of history. Thats a good reason. A vote for Umbaba, why, well he's black and if you vote for him you could be a part of history. Another good reason.
How about a candidate that will get us back on track. Non exist and if they did we would down play them with cute little phases like he's to radical or he lacks political experience. Thats what we need and we aren't going to get it.

So everbody go to bed and have a good nights sleep, don't worry when you wake up every thing will still be the same.
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Old January 31st, 2008, 10:55 PM   #23
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Fixed it...


Joe gets up at 6:00am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because thanks to capitalism the country has the wealth to build the finest water system in the world. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications exist because a pharmaceutical company was willing to invest the millions, or billions, to develop the medication.

All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because he's lucky enough to still have a job, unlike so many of the former union workers that priced themselves right out of the market with more demands so their employer had no choice but to close up shop . He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon and eggs were reasonably priced and of high quality because competition in the free market system ensures that only those that can produce products of the highest quality and lowest price will survive in the marketplace.

Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; he likes how it smells and how well it works and is happy that he live in a country where company's are free to produce the products people want rather being told by the government what to make. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal ran all the manufacturing out of town and all the jobs with it, those are all now in china. He's thankful he still has a job but is worried that the industry he works in may be the next on the greenies hit list.

Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because those that run his company made wise decisions and business is good. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s a good worker and they don't want him to quit. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll at least get something back from the socialist system thats some liberal came up with to protect people that can't plan for the future.

Its noon time, Joe needs to pay some bills but thanks to his good paying job and wise money management he doesn't need to worry about running to the bank during lunch, theres plenty in his account to cover his bills . Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FDIC since the FSLIC was abolished in 1989. Thankfully, the free market banking system allows him choose the bank that best suits his needs.

Joe has to pay his jumbo Mortgage that is to big to be underwritten buy Fannie Mae but thanks to hard work at least he doesn't have a pile of student debt to worry about. His liberal friends called him crazy for working to pay for school rather than just taking out a bunch of student loans, who's the crazy one now?

Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because he makes enough money to afford the best and the auto company's fought the greeny liberals that were trying to force unrealistic fuel economy standards that would have force everyone to drive smaller, less safe cars. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. Unfortunately, like most government assistance program, this one was poorly managed and cost the tax payers billions, and had to be reorganized in 1994. The house didn’t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification even though it is not profitable to the electric companies. In a rare flash a brilliance the big government actually came up with a program that helped the electric companies get electricity to these places profitably.

He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on the money he made when he sold the business he spent a lifetime building up. Thankfully, he doesn't have to worry about if some company's pension plan or social security will remain solvent.

He turns on a radio talk show, the host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. And Joe replies "HELL YEAH"
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Old January 31st, 2008, 11:01 PM   #24
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If a corporation uses our highway system in one day more than I use it in a lifetime because they have huge fleets of trucks travelling on them 24/7, shouldn't they pay a higher share of the taxes that service the highways?

Look guys, I'm not saying that the average person should be paying all these taxes. I'm saying that the corporations should. Why?
This shows your lack of understanding of basic economics. In the end it does not matter if you tax the corporations or the individual. Either way you and I pay. Corporations are in business to make money. Raise their taxes and it just means that they either need to raise the price of their products, or lower other costs, like wages. Either way, we pay.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 05:34 AM   #25
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I wish you guys would stop defending the likes of Bush and Cheney and realize that they are looting this country for their own gain and destroying everything that we stand for. They get you guys to fight against their critics by saying that if you are against their war, you are against the troops, and if you criticize them you are criticizing the president, so you are unpatriotic, and if you criticize what is being done to our nation by our own citizens, you are an America hater, and if you are a republican you are strong and tough, and if you're a democrat you are a wimp. It's the liberals that have been doing all the fighting for the protection of their/our/your civil rights..... It's like the story of the king's new clothes.... I'm the boy that say's, "Look mom, the king isn't wearing any clothes"....
We're not all defending the current administraion.

Some of us are not dwelling on things we cannot currently change (current admin), but looking forward to what we can (presidential elections).

I could give two shits about what Bush and Cheney are doing to the country; it is obvious we have not been able to stop them. I am tired of our citizens giving their lives defending a impotent foreign government against the majority.
I am tired of American mothers/fathers/brothers/sisters/cousins/aunts/uncles/grandchildren dying for a cause that will be quickly forgotten by most.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 05:56 AM   #26
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I want my country back, but I also want to be able to pull back the reins on the greedy and the wreckless so that this country and all of its beauty will be here for our kids, and their kids, and their kids. Bush anbd his corporate and Saudi cronies don't care about that. Do you?
Just curious, how will you vote this election if Clinton gets the party nomination?

Granteted, she has mentened some things about the auto industry that sound promising, but I cannot imagine her doing anything that beneficial outside of getting our fellow Americans out of Iraq.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 08:46 AM   #27
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Just curious, how will you vote this election if Clinton gets the party nomination?

Granteted, she has mentened some things about the auto industry that sound promising, but I cannot imagine her doing anything that beneficial outside of getting our fellow Americans out of Iraq.
Considering we're over 4,000 Americans dead, isn't that enough? How about $2 trillion spent so far there? Still not enough? How about letting the IRaqi's take back control of their oil resources so the price per barrel can come down? STILL NOT ENOUGH, how about all the money we can spend in OUR country repairing the damage this administration has done!
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Old February 1st, 2008, 08:49 AM   #28
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We're not all defending the current administraion.

Some of us are not dwelling on things we cannot currently change (current admin), but looking forward to what we can (presidential elections).

I could give two shits about what Bush and Cheney are doing to the country; it is obvious we have not been able to stop them. I am tired of our citizens giving their lives defending a impotent foreign government against the majority.
I am tired of American mothers/fathers/brothers/sisters/cousins/aunts/uncles/grandchildren dying for a cause that will be quickly forgotten by most.
Yeah, that's been the problem all along. You could give two shits. Nobody cares until it affects THEM directly. This administration should have been impeached and led out in handcuffs long ago. According to the Nuremberg Trials they already qualify as war criminals several times over.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 09:31 AM   #29
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Considering we're over 4,000 Americans dead, isn't that enough? How about $2 trillion spent so far there? Still not enough? How about letting the IRaqi's take back control of their oil resources so the price per barrel can come down? STILL NOT ENOUGH, how about all the money we can spend in OUR country repairing the damage this administration has done!
exactly what damage has this administration done inside this country?
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Old February 1st, 2008, 09:32 AM   #30
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**extrapostlol***
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Old February 1st, 2008, 09:32 AM   #31
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Yeah, that's been the problem all along. You could give two shits. Nobody cares until it affects THEM directly. This administration should have been impeached and led out in handcuffs long ago. According to the Nuremberg Trials they already qualify as war criminals several times over.

expand on this one please
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Old February 1st, 2008, 10:13 AM   #32
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expand on this one please
I'm heading in to a meeting, but I will get on the internet later and provide you with a mind boggling list.

Thank you for responding as you did. That's showing that you are at least willing to consider another point of view before you poo-poo it. I'm impressed, and will respond accordingly.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 10:18 AM   #33
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None of the gains for the middle class ever came forth from the robber barons of the gilded age back when and they won't now.
Change only comes about through grassroots efforts from below, not blind allegiance to the powers that be that will let us have the crumbs of "trickle down". Flame on, I don't give a chit.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 10:21 AM   #34
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None of the gains for the middle class ever came forth from the robber barons of the gilded age back when and they won't now.
Change only comes about through grassroots efforts from below, not blind allegiance to the powers that be that will let us have the crumbs of "trickle down". Flame on, I don't give a chit.
You must be chacking out Thom Hartmann eh? kewl.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 10:42 AM   #35
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America! Fuck yeah!
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Old February 1st, 2008, 11:25 AM   #36
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agb ate mikesova.
Actually, I think he might be another Chiefwoohaw sock puppet.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 11:28 AM   #37
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Considering we're over 4,000 Americans dead, isn't that enough? How about $2 trillion spent so far there? Still not enough? How about letting the IRaqi's take back control of their oil resources so the price per barrel can come down? STILL NOT ENOUGH, how about all the money we can spend in OUR country repairing the damage this administration has done!
I heard on 950 the other day about the damage this administration has done to the automobile industry. We are all aware of that correct ? Gm had sales that had only been topped one other time in the history of the company. The overall automotive industry is performing as well as it was in 1997. I don't remember the recession of 1997. I don't remember anybody bashing Clinton for the terrible economic position we where in in 1997. I guess thats because it didn't exsist. Niether did Jen the mole. I'm sure we can find some way to blame George Bush for us putting a goof ass like Granholm in office Twice. I'm sure George has it out for Michigan.
I would much rather hear you say look at all the taxes that could be cut suspending the action in Iraq. That would be a good start, and should be followed by the gutting of the bloated government, rather than lI don't agree with whats going on in Iraq so lets spend that money somewhere else, oh and while we are at it lets raise taxes.
You made a reference to borrowing money from China and raising taxes, well I got news for you when a loan is paid back you have satisfied your obligation when liberals raise taxes its like death its forever. You can't borrow your way out of debt and you cant tax your way out either. I would go for the loan before the tax increase.















George Bush is not running in 2008 The Phantom thats too bad
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Old February 1st, 2008, 11:42 AM   #38
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Yeah, that's been the problem all along. You could give two shits. Nobody cares until it affects THEM directly. This administration should have been impeached and led out in handcuffs long ago. According to the Nuremberg Trials they already qualify as war criminals several times over.
Your talking about events of 60 years ago. Why don't you look at Watergate you can compare that to Hilery and Obama and see the things that happened then go on as a daily practice today without a second thought. Things have a way of changing. I looked up the word "insert racial slur here" in an old Webster Dictionary it says simply a race of dark skinned people. How does that compare to whats going on today. I also looked up Republic and Democracy and the definitions are different then you had indicated in one of your other posts.
Shouldn't you take the definition of the time in which a statement is made to make your point accurate?
If you look at the Nuremberg trails and the era of Adolf Hitler you will see that Hitlers idea of what governments role is closely parallels that of our modern day liberals.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 01:54 PM   #39
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The Senate released a bi-partisan report that the intelligence leading up to the invasion of Iraq was falsified intentionally as to WMDs and Iraq's connection to 9/11 and Al Qeada. The making of aggressive wars is a crime according to the Nuremburg Trials. Bush is also guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

The United Nations charter has a provision which was agreed to by the United States (formulated by the United States in fact) after World War II. It says that from now on, no nation can use armed force without the permission of the U.N. Security Council. They can use force in connection with self-defense, but a country can't use force in anticipation of self-defense. Regarding Iraq, the last Security Council resolution essentially said, 'Look, send the weapons inspectors out to Iraq, have them come back and tell us what they've found -- then we'll figure out what we're going to do. The U.S. was impatient, and decided to invade Iraq -- which was all pre-arranged of course. So, the United States went to war, in violation of the charter.
1. George Bush and Dick Cheney ordered a War of Aggression against Iraq. This constitutes, according to the UN Charter formulated by the United States, a Crime Against Peace - for which Nazi leaders were prosecuted at the Nuremberg Trials - and violates the UN Charter.
• Iraq never attacked the US or threatened an attack, so the US was not acting legally in self-defense, which is permitted under the UN Charter.
• Iraq played no role in the September 11, 2001 attack on the US and never provided material support to any terrorist group that attacked the US, so even the non-legal Bush doctrine of pre-emptive attack did not apply.
• At the time of the US attack, Iraq was nearing full compliance with UN Resolution 1441 and prior resolutions requiring disarmament, and the majority of the Security Council believed UN inspectors should be given more time, so the US was not enforcing UN resolutions, as it claims.
• George Bush and Dick Cheney ordered the invasion of Iraq in order to bring about a regime change, which was never authorized by a UN resolution, and violates the UN Charter.
A Crime Against Peace is defined as "planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the foregoing." By invading Iraq, Bush has committed a Crime Against Peace.
2. George Bush and Dick Cheney ordered the bombing of civilian areas like Baghdad (with 5 million innocent civilians) and Basra. This resulted in the deaths of hundreds of non-combatants, in violation of Geneva Convention (IV) Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, August 12, 1949.
• Article 3(1): The following acts are and shall remain prohibited at any time and in any place whatsoever with respect to [non-combatants]: (a) violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture.
3. George Bush and Dick Cheney are ultimately responsible for the torture and murder of Iraqi prisoners, which resulted from policies that were approved by Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales, and Vice President Cheney himself. These policies were adopted with full knowledge that they could result in war crimes, which persuaded Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee to urge Attorney General Alberto Gonzales to appoint a special prosecutor, which has still not been done.
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Old February 1st, 2008, 02:41 PM   #40
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I heard on 950 the other day about the damage this administration has done to the automobile industry. We are all aware of that correct ? Gm had sales that had only been topped one other time in the history of the company. The overall automotive industry is performing as well as it was in 1997. I don't remember the recession of 1997. I don't remember anybody bashing Clinton for the terrible economic position we where in in 1997. I guess thats because it didn't exsist. You're RIGHT! We were much better off economically then than we are now. Thanks for pointing that out. And all this time I thought you hated ALL dems. Niether did Jen the mole. I'm sure we can find some way to blame George Bush for us putting a goof ass like Granholm in office Twice. I'm sure George has it out for Michigan. Neither George nor I put Jen in office.
I would much rather hear you say look at all the taxes that could be cut suspending the action in Iraq I did. See my thread "One Day in Iraq".. That would be a good start A GREAT start!, and should be followed by the gutting of the bloated government I agree, rather than lI don't agree with whats going on in Iraq so lets spend that money somewhere else The money was already spent to the tune of $2 trillion. Every day that goes by we go through that list all over again., oh and while we are at it lets raise taxes I never said that. Who did?.
You made a reference to borrowing money from China and raising taxes, well I got news for you when a loan is paid back you have satisfied your obligation when liberals raise taxes its like death its forever I know that and agree, the problem is that the loan inludes many trade concessions. Besides, we can't very well tell our debtor to stop shipping goods over here, especially when many of the companies that are opening up there are U.S. companies.. You can't borrow your way out of debt and you cant tax your way out either Well, even though it's a bad approach, you CAN tax your way out of debt. Taxes are revenue. Revenue pays bills.. I would go for the loan before the tax increase. Too late. Tell that to all the U.S. citizens that are losing their jobs to China.


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