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Old January 19th, 2008, 07:31 PM   #61
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I must say, you are one eloquent sumbitch!

As far as your speed limit example goes, the legal rule of thumb is always "when two laws differ, the stricter shall apply", so in court you would lose the argument because 25 mph is the stricter of the two. Insofar as your kill tag argument, I think you meant to ask rhetorically if once your tag is used is it unlawful to continue to carry your firearm (?), but laws are based on the "any reasonable person" framework, so any reasonable person would realize that the tag you had to carry when you DIDN'T have a deer would see that you now HAVE a deer, and your tag is affixed thereupon, therefore you are not in violation of the law..... Post facto babe... Post facto.

With regard to translations, what about the Ecumenical Councils? I believe that they carried on quite a bit of arguing before deciding what your clear and consistent bible was going to tell you.....?
The actual Hunting Regulations mirror The State Statute in that they don't make any destinction or provisions for this and the DNR officers are schooled as this being a catch 22 for issuing a violation. Furthermore any police officer between 11/15 and 11/30 can issue a violation to anybody with a firearm in their possesion that does'nt have a valid Michigan Firearns license and an unused kill tag . I've seen it done and upheld in court. What a joke eh.
The 25 mph thing, my point exactly, take it out of context and you could be sol.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 07:37 PM   #62
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I must say, you are one eloquent sumbitch!

As far as your speed limit example goes, the legal rule of thumb is always "when two laws differ, the stricter shall apply", so in court you would lose the argument because 25 mph is the stricter of the two. Insofar as your kill tag argument, I think you meant to ask rhetorically if once your tag is used is it unlawful to continue to carry your firearm (?), but laws are based on the "any reasonable person" framework, so any reasonable person would realize that the tag you had to carry when you DIDN'T have a deer would see that you now HAVE a deer, and your tag is affixed thereupon, therefore you are not in violation of the law..... Post facto babe... Post facto.

With regard to translations, what about the Ecumenical Councils? I believe that they carried on quite a bit of arguing before deciding what your clear and consistent bible was going to tell you.....?
Hey don't start that legal mumble jumble Post facto Limini Quantom Meroit stuff. Talk about out of context confusing good for nothing books.













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Old January 19th, 2008, 08:33 PM   #63
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So Mr. Toes has this great idea to start a thread arguing the bible because of a remark I made about Adam and Eve...... So I guess we start there:

1. Did god create JUST Adam and Eve, or were there others he created at the same time?

2. If there were more, how do you know that?

3. If he created JUST Adam and Eve, and they had kids, and their kids had kids, and so on, wouldn't we all be products of incest?

Let the games begin!

And try to play nice. There's no need for personal attacks. It's just a debate.




JUST TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR. I said you could start a new thread debating the bible. I never said I wanted to start a thread arguing anything. I'm not an argumentative person. I'm just a quite peaceful guy that kinda blends into the back ground. Real inconspiculously in the shadows person












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Old January 20th, 2008, 12:52 AM   #64
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By the way, I was born out of wedlock, so that means I can never enter your church.... At least according to Deuteronomy 23:2 - A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.
Why would you feel you need to live under Mosaic Law? Righteousness could not come from the law .. If it could then there would not have been a need for Jesus. The law was meant for the Jews to realize that they needed a messiah.

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Call me when Christianity finds out about hospitals.
I've never attended a Christian church that had a problem with hospitals. If God wants to heal you with the help of a doctor that’s wonderful.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 09:40 AM   #65
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I think he was referring to Christian Scientology, which if you were to look closely at what they actually believe you will find that they are neither Christian nor scientific. They are a cult.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 11:17 AM   #66
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[QUOTE=Mr Toes;908352]
Just an other point of view, how do you know the prayer didn't work, maybee the guy was praying to be taken from this life??QUOTE]
Please......
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Old January 20th, 2008, 11:18 AM   #67
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Just an other point of view, how do you know the prayer didn't work, maybee the guy was praying to be taken from this life??QUOTE]
Please......
Just a thought !!!
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Old January 20th, 2008, 11:21 AM   #68
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I think he was referring to Christian Scientology, which if you were to look closely at what they actually believe you will find that they are neither Christian nor scientific. They are a cult.
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But Tom Cruise is one so It can't be a Cult..... JK.


As far as the hospital thing goes, I think people that don't seek medical treatment for their aliments are stupid. Can God still do work in the hospital? Yes. People Heal in amazing, indescribable, Impossible ways almost everyday. I think most people think that God does not perform miracles anymore, but he does. Maybe they just aren't as many because of our "knowledge" of the human body and our ability to Heal it. Of course, they still can't heal cancer....God can....Anywho Back to subject.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 11:24 AM   #69
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[QUOTE=Mr Toes;908336]Try the new testiment it's got a few things about...QUOTE]

Funny how each time I bring up a verse you either tell me that there's a correction to it elsewhere, or it's taken out of context.

Using that logic the only way we can discuss the bible at all is to discuss the entire book without going over it part by part, and if that's what we would do then I would simply say that the burden of proof of is on the claimant.... So go ahead, prove it's true...... Silly way to handle this, isn't it? So can we get back to discussing it part by part?
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Old January 20th, 2008, 11:26 AM   #70
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JUST TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR. I said you could start a new thread debating the bible. I never said I wanted to start a thread arguing anything. I'm not an argumentative person. I'm just a quite peaceful guy that kinda blends into the back ground. Real inconspiculously in the shadows person

JUST LIKE THE PHANTOM!!!!! WOOOOSSSHHHHHHH time for some Crown
No Bro, I wasn't referring to you at all. It was evident from your other posts you are a rational guy. I said that for all the people that aren't, would jon in, and probably be upset and irrational. As far as I'm concerned, your the kind of guy I could throw back several Crowns and debate with all night.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 11:31 AM   #71
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Why would you feel you need to live under Mosaic Law? Righteousness could not come from the law .. If it could then there would not have been a need for Jesus. The law was meant for the Jews to realize that they needed a messiah.



I've never attended a Christian church that had a problem with hospitals. If God wants to heal you with the help of a doctor thatís wonderful.
Your first comment: god sent jesus to die for Adams (mans) sins, because all mankind is descended from Adam and therefore all guilty of original sin. I can provide the verse if you like (as long as Mr. Toes won't accuse me of taking it our of context.... (wink)).

Your second comment: I was referring to the extreme Chrisitian Scientists, who are opposed to a scary number of things that you would likely have no problem. Interestingly enough, they refer to the bible on pretty much any issue that comes up in their life, and they try to follow it to the letter.... I'm surprised they don't try to sell their daughters in to slavery and put people to death in a fire for being unclean..... They are VERY extreme.

A line seems to be drawn for different sects of the Judeo-christian/Catholic faith, so I was illustrating the same inconsistency that I've been pointing out (apparently out of context though....) all along.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 11:35 AM   #72
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But Tom Cruise is one so It can't be a Cult..... JK.


As far as the hospital thing goes, I think people that don't seek medical treatment for their aliments are stupid. Can God still do work in the hospital? Yes. People Heal in amazing, indescribable, Impossible ways almost everyday. I think most people think that God does not perform miracles anymore, but he does. Maybe they just aren't as many because of our "knowledge" of the human body and our ability to Heal it. Of course, they still can't heal cancer....God can....Anywho Back to subject.
Tom Cruise is not a Christian Scientist. He is a Scientologist. Huge difference. Google the two and see for yourself.

Cancer is like rust: it grows. When my first wife died of it I learned alot about it as I cared for her. You don't 'cure' cancer, but you can halt it's progress if you get in there quickly enough. The problems is that once the cancer is stopped, the tissue is still irreparably harmed. It's not like a Jeep where you can cut out a section and weld another in.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 11:42 AM   #73
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Tom Cruise is not a Christian Scientist. He is a Scientologist. Huge difference. Google the two and see for yourself.

Cancer is like rust: it grows. When my first wife died of it I learned alot about it as I cared for her. You don't 'cure' cancer, but you can halt it's progress if you get in there quickly enough. The problems is that once the cancer is stopped, the tissue is still irreparably harmed. It's not like a Jeep where you can cut out a section and weld another in.
I should point out that my wife and her family tried hospitals and prayer (they are christians, some of them quite devout [no, I did not fit in well; and yes, we argued all the time]). There was not stopping it. It came by surpsrise because there were no symptoms until it was too late.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 01:29 PM   #74
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I should point out that my wife and her family tried hospitals and prayer (they are christians, some of them quite devout [no, I did not fit in well; and yes, we argued all the time]). There was not stopping it. It came by surpsrise because there were no symptoms until it was too late.
Today 11:35 AM
Sorry bout your loss.

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Why would you feel you need to live under Mosaic Law? Righteousness could not come from the law .. If it could then there would not have been a need for Jesus. The law was meant for the Jews to realize that they needed a messiah.



I've never attended a Christian church that had a problem with hospitals. If God wants to heal you with the help of a doctor thatís wonderful.
Your first comment: god sent jesus to die for Adams (mans) sins, because all mankind is descended from Adam and therefore all guilty of original sin. I can provide the verse if you like (as long as Mr. Toes won't accuse me of taking it our of context.... (wink)).

Your second comment: I was referring to the extreme Chrisitian Scientists, who are opposed to a scary number of things that you would likely have no problem. Interestingly enough, they refer to the bible on pretty much any issue that comes up in their life, and they try to follow it to the letter.... I'm surprised they don't try to sell their daughters in to slavery and put people to death in a fire for being unclean..... They are VERY extreme.

A line seems to be drawn for different sects of the Judeo-christian/Catholic faith, so I was illustrating the same inconsistency that I've been pointing out (apparently out of context though....) all along.
You guys are Arguing the same point kind of. mdhmi Is saying that those laws about clean/unclean were for the jews and jews only before the time of Jesus. The only reason they are clean/unclean is because of Adam's/our sin.

Jesus Came to earth to die for our sin so that we could live a sinless life and have a Relationship with God. The jewish laws were followed before this time so that the jews could be found righteous in the eyes of God and Have a relationship with him. Same thing.

When Jesus Came he abolished those laws because that sin was Abolished by him. So now, It doesn't matter if you eat unclean meat, are a bastard child, or any of the like 600 laws they have. You can have that relationship with God. You don't need a preist to Sacrifice something for you...JEsus did that.

This is one of the many ways people say the bible contradicts it self. Which, in this case, is completely out of context. You have to realize that the old law was abolished and then the new law put into place with Jesus. This could possibly be what Mr Toes meant. Another way is that peole just don't realize the Context of the WHEN. The bible was written how many years ago? Was the USA around? Womans Rights? No. The Culture was much different. You can easily say the bible is unjust because of the way it treats woman if you look at it in this cultures views. If you research the Culture back then you'll understand what the authors were trying to say. Ok...I'm done.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 02:13 PM   #75
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No Bro, I wasn't referring to you at all. It was evident from your other posts you are a rational guy. I said that for all the people that aren't, would jon in, and probably be upset and irrational. As far as I'm concerned, your the kind of guy I could throw back several Crowns and debate with all night.
J B s place is right down the street. The make a mean Crown and water, it comes in a beer mug, full to the top.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 02:30 PM   #76
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Try the new testiment it's got a few things about...QUOTE]

Funny how each time I bring up a verse you either tell me that there's a correction to it elsewhere, or it's taken out of context.

Using that logic the only way we can discuss the bible at all is to discuss the entire book without going over it part by part, and if that's what we would do then I would simply say that the burden of proof of is on the claimant.... So go ahead, prove it's true...... Silly way to handle this, isn't it? So can we get back to discussing it part by part?
Sure. But when you reference a small part, that isn't representative of the overall intent, your going to have other small parts that appear to be a contradiction when infact it is a clairification or the balance of the total message. Corinthians has an area that deals with the disection of the church, and it is clear the church is like a body. Non of the parts can stand alone and the body needs all of the parts to be a body. I'am inclined to think the Bible has to function in the same manor.
Discussing parts of the Bible is the only way to do it in this format.
But just as the burden of proof rests with the Plaintiff, the Plaintiff is given the oportunity to present his case in its entirety.
Also discussing it in pieces is going to lend itself to the fact that everthing brought up is apsolutely out of context.

Thats O.K. it's still fun













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Old January 20th, 2008, 02:43 PM   #77
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I should point out that my wife and her family tried hospitals and prayer (they are christians, some of them quite devout [no, I did not fit in well; and yes, we argued all the time]). There was not stopping it. It came by surpsrise because there were no symptoms until it was too late.
It's too bad that we don't understand God, and we don't understand why things happen as they do.
It seems the harder I try to do what seems to be the right thing the more things tend to go wrong. It's confusing at best
I read the book of Jobe and I'm floored at it. I can't imagine me in that position, and I'm not. Go figure.
The other thing I have yet to figure out is why can't we embrace the death of a loved one as the begining of a glorious eternity. This is what we are taught but we have such a hard time apsorbing it. I'm probally the worst.














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Old January 20th, 2008, 02:46 PM   #78
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Your first comment: god sent jesus to die for Adams (mans) sins, because all mankind is descended from Adam and therefore all guilty of original sin. I can provide the verse if you like (as long as Mr. Toes won't accuse me of taking it our of context.... (wink)).

Your second comment: I was referring to the extreme Chrisitian Scientists, who are opposed to a scary number of things that you would likely have no problem. Interestingly enough, they refer to the bible on pretty much any issue that comes up in their life, and they try to follow it to the letter.... I'm surprised they don't try to sell their daughters in to slavery and put people to death in a fire for being unclean..... They are VERY extreme.

A line seems to be drawn for different sects of the Judeo-christian/Catholic faith, so I was illustrating the same inconsistency that I've been pointing out (apparently out of context though....) all along.


HEY I see your taking things out of context again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old January 21st, 2008, 03:26 PM   #79
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HEY I see your taking things out of context again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I noticed your avatar doesn't look very happy lately.....






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Old January 21st, 2008, 03:52 PM   #80
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Okay, so since god was way ahead of us in science and all that, and the (illiterate) disciples wrote the book based on all this wisdom and know how, why didn't they know that the earth was spherical?

"take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it (Job 38:12-13)

"The earth takes shape like clay under a seal." (Job 38:14)

"[T]he devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them"
(Matthew 4:1-12)

"The visions of my head as I lay in bed were these: I saw, and behold, a tree in the midst of the earth; and its height was great. The tree grew and became strong, and its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the end of the whole earth." (Daniel 4:10-11)
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