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Old January 19th, 2008, 01:17 PM   #41
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I'm not convinced that the foundation of our country isn't influenced by religion. There are references to God, even on our Money ( that would be the U.S. dollar. you know the one all the Muslims want ) It appears that the country was founded for the most part by Christians and that Christian beliefs did influence their decission making. Thats not a bad thing.
Oh, I completely agree, I was just covering my butt to save the page or two that would have become "our country is/is not a nation founded on Christianity" Arguement. It's a dead horse. I figured I'd Head it off before It even got there.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 02:26 PM   #42
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I like beer
which is precisely why I hosted a brew and bible. We made and drank beer, and talked about the bible. It was a good time. Maybe it is time for round two. Any takers?
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Old January 19th, 2008, 04:40 PM   #43
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Oh, I completely agree, I was just covering my butt to save the page or two that would have become "our country is/is not a nation founded on Christianity" Arguement. It's a dead horse. I figured I'd Head it off before It even got there.
Like I said in another post on another thread, the word 'god' does not appear ANYWHERE in the Constitution OR the Bill of Rights... Apparently even the christian founding fathers thought it best to leave out.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 04:51 PM   #44
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which is precisely why I hosted a brew and bible. We made and drank beer, and talked about the bible. It was a good time. Maybe it is time for round two. Any takers?
i will drink your god fearing as under the table, but no bible talk.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 04:58 PM   #45
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Wow I'm impressed.


I see your using King James 1611 edition

The way you take snippets out of context is impressive. Are you a politition?
If you mean an edition that wasn't further edited to clear up all the problems the critics keep pointing out, then yes. If the bible is so pure, it wouldn't matter which edition I used. They would be consistent, thus the fundamental weakness of the scripture. You cannot even get agreement between editions.

New translations of old languages are less likely to be as accurate as translations done when the language was still in use. This is a fundamental precept of linguistics. If the bible is written by the (illiterate) disciples of christ, why does man keep rewriting it? Look at the Ecumenical Councils and their period of arguments, edits and rewrites. If the bible is so clear, why were they even needed?

They're not called snippets, they're called verses. Go to any church of any faith and listen to the person at the pulpit use them exactly as I have done. I'll bet a shiny new nickel that our friend jbowen does the same thing in his services.....
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Old January 19th, 2008, 05:01 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Infinite_Wisdumb View Post
Clone from Dictionary.com:
1. Biology.
a. a cell, cell product, or organism that is genetically identical to the unit or individual from which it was derived.
b. a population of identical units, cells, or individuals that derive from the same ancestral line.

I can clone you anything, but if it is a clone it is IDENTICAL to the one from which it came. You cannot create a female from a male if it is a CLONE as they are different.

See this news article on how a human embryo was just cloned from skin cells:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science....ap/index.html

We are close to the penultimate achievement in science.
VERY INTERESTING, as I was reading this information I was kinda fliping threw some other stuff. I found it amusing to see how not to long ago it was believed that if you where sick that letting blood out of your system would cure you. Can you imagine if you told one of those geniuses that you could do surgery with a beam of light. They would more than likely respond the same way you are. HMMM make a women out of a mans rib impossible, laser surgery impossible, Heart transplant ru nuts, a little white gob of white stuff that can stop a heart attack, relieve aches and pains, lower a temperture, and take away a head ache, this must be witchcraft. Or an asprin.

Caal me when science catches up to Christianity.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 05:06 PM   #47
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so if there were 2 people, they had kids, and they had kids then were all inbred hillbillys. i think it's just a bunch of made up superstitious religous BS. thats just me though.
Hey buddie I do believe in this stuff so be nice about it.Or jut keep your opinions to your self. By the way my cousin(the other kid that was her when you lookeed at my burban) he seen your truck. He said it looks bad ass. Im guessing it was at your house because he was by crescent lake.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 05:07 PM   #48
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It's funny how the apolgists like to use snippets when snippets support their argument, but criticize others for doing when it doesn't support their argument......

The only way to take anything written 'in context' is to paste the whole thing herein. Ridiculous. Besides, the overwhelming majority of disciples that 'wrote' the bible had to have been illiterate, as literacy was something only the elite had.....

I'm running out the door to take my son for his driving test today, but I'll be back.
How dare you question anything in the Bible. If you have a kid thats getting ready to drive I K\know you are not only reading and believing the Bible but you sir are definitly having one on one conversations directly with GOD.














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Old January 19th, 2008, 05:25 PM   #49
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By the way, I was born out of wedlock, so that means I can never enter your church.... At least according to Deuteronomy 23:2 - A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

In fact, it sounds like my kids, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids STILL cannot enter your church..... Interesting. I guess I'll have to listen from outside... Kind of like Night at the Roxbury.... Heh heh.

Any thoughts on that?
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Old January 19th, 2008, 05:27 PM   #50
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How dare you question anything in the Bible. If you have a kid thats getting ready to drive I K\know you are not only reading and believing the Bible but you sir are definitly having one on one conversations directly with GOD.

The Phantom has been there and done that
ROFL!!! Too true my friend. Too true. He passed though. Yay! Praise Dad (his driving instructor)!
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Old January 19th, 2008, 05:32 PM   #51
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Caal me when science catches up to Christianity.
Having lived with Christian Scientists for a period of time, I watched an otherwise healthy man with liver problems die because prayer did not work, so they said it was gods will. Call me when christianity finds out about hospitals.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 05:34 PM   #52
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Hey buddie I do believe in this stuff so be nice about it.Or jut keep your opinions to your self..
I agree. Be nice. Me-e-e-e-e-el-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-o-o-o-o-o-o-w-w-w-w-w.......
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Old January 19th, 2008, 05:35 PM   #53
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Mr. Toes' boar head in his avatar looks really happy.... Maybe he found god right before he got his head chopped off?
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Old January 19th, 2008, 05:58 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
If you mean an edition that wasn't further edited to clear up all the problems the critics keep pointing out, then yes. If the bible is so pure, it wouldn't matter which edition I used. They would be consistent, thus the fundamental weakness of the scripture. You cannot even get agreement between editions.

New translations of old languages are less likely to be as accurate as translations done when the language was still in use. This is a fundamental precept of linguistics. If the bible is written by the (illiterate) disciples of christ, why does man keep rewriting it? Look at the Ecumenical Councils and their period of arguments, edits and rewrites. If the bible is so clear, why were they even needed?

They're not called snippets, they're called verses. Go to any church of any faith and listen to the person at the pulpit use them exactly as I have done. I'll bet a shiny new nickel that our friend jbowen does the same thing in his services.....
I've read several translations and editions of the Bible , I have found that the overall message remains consistant. As far as translations from another language to English weather it be Old English ( not to be confused with the furniture polish ) new English or Ebonics, phrases and single words can be difficult to translate on a word for word basis. If you translate Spanish word for word to English it makes no sense as does most other languages. It even gets worse when you go from European to Asain languages. But the fact remains they can be translated and we can understand the overall meaning of a given message.
As far as the snippets. A verse is exactly that its not the entire book nor does it define the entire message. The same holds true for a portion of a verse, as this was what you used while quoting scripture. You have a child starting to drive. The last time I went through the Law pertaining to Speed Limits in a Costruction Zone I noticed it said "unless posted otherwise the speed limit in a construction zone shall be 45 mph." Take this out of context and that means that in a residential area (25 mph) if road construction is underway you can drive 45 mph. Thats not true and you have to read the rest of the rules to understand this. In the current Michigan Hunting and Fishing Regulations, out of context, it says you must have on you person an unused Deer Kill Tag in order to carry a firearm afield. Out of context it also say's that immediately upon harvesting a deer you must validate your kill tag and afix it the the carcuss (use it). Does that mean that shooting a deer is illegal no mater what, of coarse not, you must utilize the totality of the book.
As is the case with the Bible. The Bible does not preach to be demeaning to women, and according to the Bible women where not created merely for the pleasure of a man. You can disect any writing of any sort and play one detail agains't the other. That proves nothing of the overall intent or message of the writing.
As you said eairlier " It wouldn't matter which edition I used. They would be consistant. Out of context.
P.S. when I go to church we read the entire bible cover to cover ever sunday just like Pastor jbowen does.














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Old January 19th, 2008, 06:02 PM   #55
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Mr. Toes' boar head in his avatar looks really happy.... Maybe he found god right before he got his head chopped off?

HAHAHAHA. that is honestly an issues I have not resolved in my own chopped off head . Thou shalt not kill. I don't do to good with that one.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 06:07 PM   #56
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P.S. when I go to church we read the entire bible cover to cover ever sunday just like Pastor jbowen does.
First, there is no way you read the bible cover to cover every sunday. I do not believe that you can read that fast, and if you do you are not taking time to reflect on it. That's just ridiculous and you could not have meant to say that.

Second, I am still betting that when the good pastor is discussing a subject upon which to reflect, he uses parts of verses from the bible to reinforce his point. This is normal and common and done in every church I have ever attended. Even some of the most popular spiritual leaders in the world do this regularly.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 06:10 PM   #57
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By the way, I was born out of wedlock, so that means I can never enter your church.... At least according to Deuteronomy 23:2 - A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

In fact, it sounds like my kids, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids STILL cannot enter your church..... Interesting. I guess I'll have to listen from outside... Kind of like Night at the Roxbury.... Heh heh.

Any thoughts on that?
Try the new testiment it's got a few things about the chosen jews not accepting salvation through Jesus, so all the other smucks, like gentiles, tax collectors, whores ,and bastards are entilted to that salvation. Romans is awful intense about how you don't have a chance without Christ. I think you already know this and are just having me reinforce my faith.










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Old January 19th, 2008, 06:14 PM   #58
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I've read several translations and editions of the Bible , I have found that the overall message remains consistant. As far as translations from another language to English weather it be Old English ( not to be confused with the furniture polish ) new English or Ebonics, phrases and single words can be difficult to translate on a word for word basis. If you translate Spanish word for word to English it makes no sense as does most other languages. It even gets worse when you go from European to Asain languages. But the fact remains they can be translated and we can understand the overall meaning of a given message.
As far as the snippets. A verse is exactly that its not the entire book nor does it define the entire message. The same holds true for a portion of a verse, as this was what you used while quoting scripture. You have a child starting to drive. The last time I went through the Law pertaining to Speed Limits in a Costruction Zone I noticed it said "unless posted otherwise the speed limit in a construction zone shall be 45 mph." Take this out of context and that means that in a residential area (25 mph) if road construction is underway you can drive 45 mph. Thats not true and you have to read the rest of the rules to understand this. In the current Michigan Hunting and Fishing Regulations, out of context, it says you must have on you person an unused Deer Kill Tag in order to carry a firearm afield. Out of context it also say's that immediately upon harvesting a deer you must validate your kill tag and afix it the the carcuss (use it). Does that mean that shooting a deer is illegal no mater what, of coarse not, you must utilize the totality of the book.
As is the case with the Bible. The Bible does not preach to be demeaning to women, and according to the Bible women where not created merely for the pleasure of a man. You can disect any writing of any sort and play one detail agains't the other. That proves nothing of the overall intent or message of the writing.
As you said eairlier " It wouldn't matter which edition I used. They would be consistant. Out of context.
P.S. when I go to church we read the entire bible cover to cover ever sunday just like Pastor jbowen does.

The Phantom reads on
I must say, you are one eloquent sumbitch!

As far as your speed limit example goes, the legal rule of thumb is always "when two laws differ, the stricter shall apply", so in court you would lose the argument because 25 mph is the stricter of the two. Insofar as your kill tag argument, I think you meant to ask rhetorically if once your tag is used is it unlawful to continue to carry your firearm (?), but laws are based on the "any reasonable person" framework, so any reasonable person would realize that the tag you had to carry when you DIDN'T have a deer would see that you now HAVE a deer, and your tag is affixed thereupon, therefore you are not in violation of the law..... Post facto babe... Post facto.

With regard to translations, what about the Ecumenical Councils? I believe that they carried on quite a bit of arguing before deciding what your clear and consistent bible was going to tell you.....?
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Old January 19th, 2008, 06:17 PM   #59
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Having lived with Christian Scientists for a period of time, I watched an otherwise healthy man with liver problems die because prayer did not work, so they said it was gods will. Call me when christianity finds out about hospitals.
God and Christianity is not like having a majic rabbits foot you rub and make a wish on. If your sick and you don't go to the doctors when thats available you are testing God and thats not a smart thing to do. I have a problem when people play their religion like that.

Just an other point of view, how do you know the prayer didn't work, maybee the guy was praying to be taken from this life??










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Old January 19th, 2008, 06:20 PM   #60
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First, there is no way you read the bible cover to cover every sunday. I do not believe that you can read that fast, and if you do you are not taking time to reflect on it. That's just ridiculous and you could not have meant to say that.

Second, I am still betting that when the good pastor is discussing a subject upon which to reflect, he uses parts of verses from the bible to reinforce his point. This is normal and common and done in every church I have ever attended. Even some of the most popular spiritual leaders in the world do this regularly.
I was joking! I don't think I could read it cover to cover in a month doing nothing else.
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