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Old January 17th, 2008, 09:51 PM   #21
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Yes.
When God created Adam and Eve they were perfect, without any genetic defects. Incest did not become taboo until many years later when more and more genetic mistakes started showing up. Cain and his sister could have kids without worry of the same genetic mistakes matching up and producing deformed children.
Did you know that Abraham married his half-sister?
Whether or not there were defects does not change the incest issue. Sibling sex is incest, taboo or not.
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Old January 17th, 2008, 10:05 PM   #22
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1&2 Genisis Chapter 4 does talk about Cain and his wife. But it also talks about brothers and sisters non of which are linked to Cain so we can presume God did infact create additional humans. And since Cains wife had childern with Cain this would keep the Adam and Eve relationship since Cain was their child.
Also if you read further into Genisis it talks of Giants and people of old. They become part of the Adam and Eve bloodline also, but they do it without incest.

3 If creation is as you decribe in your # 3 than the answer is yes we would a prduct of incest. But I have yet to find that in The Bible.
There is nothing to state there WERE others that were CREATED; that is a conclusion because you cannot explain where they came from, so you are adding something that is not there. Until you find it, you need to go by what IS in there, which is that Adam and Eve were the only ones created. Remember, they were the only ones in Eden when the problems started.

You have yet to find what in the bible? That we are products of incest? Of course you won't find that. Or that Adam and Eve were created, then had kids who had kids and so on? Hmmmm.... What bible are you reading man. Okay everyone, get out your bibles, a safety pencil and a circle of paper and open to page 1.
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Old January 17th, 2008, 10:23 PM   #23
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I can't seem to find anything that would be demeaning to women that is a product of the Bible. I have read some historical accounts of how society treated women differently several thousand years ago than the are treated now but that is not due to the writing of the bible.
Okay, let me help you out a little there bud:

"I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."--Genesis 3:16

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."--1 Tim. 2:11-14

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)

"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

Let me know if you need more. Glad to help out buddy.
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Old January 17th, 2008, 10:39 PM   #24
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Answers in Genesis gives an in depth study on Q #3
Yeah, and it states quite emphatically that all people are descendants of Adam and Eve, therefore the answer to question #3, according to your reference material, is YES. We are all products of incest.
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Old January 17th, 2008, 11:06 PM   #25
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1&2 Genisis Chapter 4 does talk about Cain and his wife. But it also talks about brothers and sisters non of which are linked to Cain so we can presume God did infact create additional humans.
Thanks Ibfin88 for your contribution of that infformative link. It helped me to realize and point out that:

1. Eve being created from Adam is the christian doctrinal foundation for the marriage of one man to one woman.

2. All humans being created from Adam is the christian doctrinal foundation that all can be saved. Without that the missionaries might as well go home.

3. Finally, and ultimately, with your logic god would have had no reason to send jesus to Earth. See Romans 5
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Old January 17th, 2008, 11:40 PM   #26
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Whether or not there were defects does not change the incest issue. Sibling sex is incest, taboo or not.
Yes, it is taboo today, but it was not so then, nor even up to Abraham's time.
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Old January 17th, 2008, 11:53 PM   #27
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I know this is kind of off topic but isn't there some law that there will be no mix between church and state. If so doesn't that mean that there should be no sales tax on a bible. Also if the government outlaws most other things because they cannot tax them then why don't they outlaw church? My .02
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Old January 18th, 2008, 02:42 PM   #28
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I know this is kind of off topic but isn't there some law that there will be no mix between church and state. If so doesn't that mean that there should be no sales tax on a bible. Also if the government outlaws most other things because they cannot tax them then why don't they outlaw church? My .02
ROFL!!!!
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Old January 18th, 2008, 03:41 PM   #29
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Can you imagine the science it would take to take a mans rib and create another human.
If you could do this you would be a GOD in the science community.
You are joking, right? We can already do this. Ever heard of cloning??
We can clone animals and could clone humans if religion would stay out of it.
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Old January 18th, 2008, 04:27 PM   #30
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Okay, let me help you out a little there bud:

"I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."--Genesis 3:16

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."--1 Tim. 2:11-14

"But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3)

"For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians 11:8-9)

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

Let me know if you need more. Glad to help out buddy.
Wow I'm impressed.

If you read the entire line of remarks you would see that it was all directed at the first few chapters of Genisis. Also as I'm configent you already know Chapter 3 of Genisis is addressing the fact that Adam and Eve disobeyed God. Genisis 3:16 is not the creation of Eve for Adams pleasure but is the punishment Eve is going to receive for disobeying God. You could have the opinion that this punishment is demeaning but that is what it would be, your opinion.

1 Corinthians Chapter 11:1-16 deals with Decorum in Public Worship. Included in this is tradition. Tradition of Man not the creation of Eve and it is in no way demeaning to a women. If this is true than it would also be demeaning to Christ as it says 11:3 In its entirety "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ;( this would be demeaning to man) and the head of every women is the man; and the head of Christ is God. ( this must be demeaning to Christ ) as you read on you will see it further describes the public appearance that is expected for that time period.

1 Corinthians 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head foreasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. That sounds awful demeaning to me.

I see your using King James 1611 edition

You missed the rest of Ephesians. Let me see if I can take things out of context all well as you have.
5:25 Husbands love your wives; even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it. Thats the end of the sentence I guess they forgot the part about Christ having the church for his own pleasure or just as something to be little as you suggest man is to woman.
5:33 Nevertheless let let every one of you inparticular so love his wife even as himself.
Im confused does this mean we must be demeaning to ourselves.

The way you take snippets out of context is impressive. Are you a politition?
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Old January 18th, 2008, 04:58 PM   #31
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I think mr. toes is very educated and makes good calm responses looking for facts. I agree I hate it when others try to shove their faith down your throat. I think the biggest mis-understanding of Genesis comes when we look at it as a scientific document, it is not. Genesis was written by moses as an inspired work from God. Alot of Genesis is actually in the Genre of poetry. When moses wrote it (inspired by God) it was to explain the nature of God. I apologize to all those who have been hurt or turned away from God because of how others have treated you. It is unfortunate when those of us who represent the church which is the Body of Jesus to carry out his Great commission(Matthew 28:16-20) does the opposite of what it was meant for. Great discussion, I am a pastor who likes to off-road, and alot of my favorite people to off-road with are either unbelievers or questioning it. I have off-roading in common with them and only answer questions if they ask. We should always be examples by how we act not how we force it on them. Love forced on someone is not love but attempted power over them, not the message of Christ.
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Old January 18th, 2008, 05:59 PM   #32
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You are joking, right? We can already do this. Ever heard of cloning??
We can clone animals and could clone humans if religion would stay out of it.
You may want to let Infinate Wisdumb know this as he has stated in #12 it's impossible.
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Old January 18th, 2008, 06:02 PM   #33
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I think mr. toes is very educated and makes good calm responses looking for facts. I agree I hate it when others try to shove their faith down your throat. I think the biggest mis-understanding of Genesis comes when we look at it as a scientific document, it is not. Genesis was written by moses as an inspired work from God. Alot of Genesis is actually in the Genre of poetry. When moses wrote it (inspired by God) it was to explain the nature of God. I apologize to all those who have been hurt or turned away from God because of how others have treated you. It is unfortunate when those of us who represent the church which is the Body of Jesus to carry out his Great commission(Matthew 28:16-20) does the opposite of what it was meant for. Great discussion, I am a pastor who likes to off-road, and alot of my favorite people to off-road with are either unbelievers or questioning it. I have off-roading in common with them and only answer questions if they ask. We should always be examples by how we act not how we force it on them. Love forced on someone is not love but attempted power over them, not the message of Christ.


Saaaawweeeeetttttttt!!!!!!!!


How's that for calm.
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Old January 18th, 2008, 06:13 PM   #34
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Actually, I think this is a :stan3: thread.
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Old January 18th, 2008, 06:34 PM   #35
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Old January 18th, 2008, 06:48 PM   #36
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Actually, I think this is a :stan3: thread.
What is that like liquid gold. You think this is as good as gold. No No I get it This is the Gold Medal of threads. lol
















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Old January 18th, 2008, 07:17 PM   #37
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Alot of people are forgetting that the bible wasnt' written in our time. I know that's an Obvious statement, but the culture we live in has a lot of Differences then that culture. And the whole "women submit to thier husbands" thing is followed by "men Love your women"

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love this part of the Bible. First of all, it is demeaning to women and second of all, if a person were cloned from another person they would be identical. Women have XX sex chromosomes, men have XY. Scientific proof of the inaccuracy of the Bible.
Ok, what you are forgetting is that, In our Belief, God is God. Science is the way we explain what God has done/created. Not the other way around. God didn't have to use a labrotory to create Eve. Let me be Clear, THAT IS MY LOOK ON THINGS. And I think it is a healthy view for A Christian.

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I know this is kind of off topic but isn't there some law that there will be no mix between church and state. If so doesn't that mean that there should be no sales tax on a bible. Also if the government outlaws most other things because they cannot tax them then why don't they outlaw church? My .02
That would be going against the Very foundation of our Country. You can't Outlaw church in a Country that was founded on a idea of "Freedom of Religion" Just my .02. Nice logic though. And I never once said It was founded on Christian Beliefs. Noted.
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Old January 18th, 2008, 07:38 PM   #38
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Alot of people are forgetting that the bible wasnt' written in our time. I know that's an Obvious statement, but the culture we live in has a lot of Differences then that culture. And the whole "women submit to thier husbands" thing is followed by "men Love your women"



Ok, what you are forgetting is that, In our Belief, God is God. Science is the way we explain what God has done/created. Not the other way around. God didn't have to use a labrotory to create Eve. Let me be Clear, THAT IS MY LOOK ON THINGS. And I think it is a healthy view for A Christian.



That would be going against the Very foundation of our Country. You can't Outlaw church in a Country that was founded on a idea of "Freedom of Religion" Just my .02. Nice logic though. And I never once said It was founded on Christian Beliefs. Noted.
I'm not convinced that the foundation of our country isn't influenced by religion. There are references to God, even on our Money ( that would be the U.S. dollar. you know the one all the Muslims want ) It appears that the country was founded for the most part by Christians and that Christian beliefs did influence their decission making. Thats not a bad thing.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 08:34 AM   #39
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You may want to let Infinate Wisdumb know this as he has stated in #12 it's impossible.
Clone from Dictionary.com:
1. Biology.
a. a cell, cell product, or organism that is genetically identical to the unit or individual from which it was derived.
b. a population of identical units, cells, or individuals that derive from the same ancestral line.

I can clone you anything, but if it is a clone it is IDENTICAL to the one from which it came. You cannot create a female from a male if it is a CLONE as they are different.

See this news article on how a human embryo was just cloned from skin cells:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science....ap/index.html

We are close to the penultimate achievement in science.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 09:36 AM   #40
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The way you take snippets out of context is impressive. Are you a politition?
It's funny how the apolgists like to use snippets when snippets support their argument, but criticize others for doing when it doesn't support their argument......

The only way to take anything written 'in context' is to paste the whole thing herein. Ridiculous. Besides, the overwhelming majority of disciples that 'wrote' the bible had to have been illiterate, as literacy was something only the elite had.....

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