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Old January 21st, 2008, 09:49 AM   #61
ScOoTeR
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Originally Posted by smasheromalley View Post
Well here's your lightsaber:
LINK

And in 5 years GM/ford/chrysler will have to play catch up again
I don't think we'll be playing catch-up; Israel will not bother with the stringent crash-safety the US is obsessed with, nor will it be a car with many frills. I'm not certain of Israel's electricity infrastructure, but it will be very interesting to see what happens there.

I don't think any revolutionary technologies wil be used there - I think you'll have existing cars converted to electric using what is readilly available today.

If nothing else O'malley - I applaud your fervor and drive for wanting an EV sold in the US!
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Old January 21st, 2008, 10:19 AM   #62
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Wasn’t the GM hybrid pickup from a couple years back equipped with electrically driven accessories and a 42/12 volt electrics? I just assumed that model was a test bed for the future hybrid electrics. What ever happened to that model?
42 vot has merit, but major hurdles.

First, no one is willing to pay the R&D costs. Generally, whenever you design something, you use a lot of circuits you already have in operation in other designs. (Really, we create a 'reference design' thats a generic, then adapt it to individual program needs). This greatly cuts down on development time, and R&D costs, as well as decreasing program risk. Moving to 42v, much of the design has to be redone, with unknown elements.

Second, is the lack of parts. The electronics component market is built around parts that run '12v' systems with ~40v load dumps. Move to 42v, and you have to create a whole new class of voltage reulators, protection circuits, etc. Diodes and transistors will have to have much higher breakdown voltages. And with the higher votlages, leakage currents are going to go up, which is a critical thing for the industry, to have the lowest 'off' currents so the battery doesn't go dead. The semiconductor industries need to get on board with it all.

Third, is testing. All of the validation programs are designed around 12v. Now you have to first design (as an OEM) testing that truly validates the hardware. Next, you have to invest megabucks into all the suppliers and the OEMs to get the test equipment and programs updated to handle it.


IMO, its a good idea to do it. The problem is it must be done in that fashion, as a industry coordinated move thats thought ought well. With the lack of cash and industry struggles, no one wants to take the leap.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 10:31 AM   #63
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gm is makeing a hybrided truck for 08 but i'm not sure i want it
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 05:29 AM   #64
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gm is makeing a hybrided truck for 08 but i'm not sure i want it

Well, the hybrid Tahoe is out - but I'm not sure if you could afford it! It sells for about $50k
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 10:50 AM   #65
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Well, the hybrid Tahoe is out - but I'm not sure if you could afford it! It sells for about $50k
Therein lies the issue.... you've got to add a electric powertrain along side of a full gas powertrain, and a lot of costly software work for low volume.

$$$$$$$$$
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Old January 24th, 2008, 01:59 PM   #66
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Time to go out and buy me a Scion xB!! Those are pimp!
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Old January 24th, 2008, 02:07 PM   #67
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i just finished watching the "who killed ev1" movie thing and I really must laugh at it. It's an excellent example of clipping what you disagree with or dont like and adding more of the same "good" comments and clips to have an entire documentary showing just the side of a story you want the audience to see. Excellent film making.


As far as reality. Questionable. EV's were a test program bigger than normal tests that actually involved consumers. Hence the leases with no buy option. Realistically I think the program would have been excellent for California and the warm climate states. The -40 requirement Jesus mentions though is what kills the program for a global usage which you honestly have to be able to do to make it a viable business case to invest in. Otherwise regardless if you have 100% demand in the states is viably mechanically its a loss to the overall business.


I do agree with the movie though that Hydrogen is a bait and switch and a brass ring the industry will never reach let alone honestly try hard enough to reach.
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