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Old January 9th, 2008, 02:22 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by steveo View Post
your such a fucking retard, how does you killing him or beating his wife in any way resemble abortion? abortion is when a woman chooses to kill her baby, not when someone else makes that decision for her.
Let me answer this, I will display this in sequence.

His ONLY argument to say that abortion is acceptible is to say that he thinks the babies that could have been born would be a waste of space.

Ok, so that means that the value of life is based on his personal opinion of the space a person would take up.

If I grant myself the SAME power over people as he does over babies, then by his own logic, I could be justified in killing him so long as I didn't like him taking up space.

See the problem with the logic?
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Old January 9th, 2008, 02:24 PM   #162
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Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
Let me answer this, I will display this in sequence.

His ONLY argument to say that abortion is acceptible is to say that he thinks the babies that could have been born would be a waste of space.

Ok, so that means that the value of life is based on his personal opinion of the space a person would take up.

If I grant myself the SAME power over people as he does over babies, then by his own logic, I could be justified in killing him so long as I didn't like him taking up space.

See the problem with the logic?
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Old January 9th, 2008, 02:24 PM   #163
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stevo, you're an idiot
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Old January 9th, 2008, 02:25 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
Let me answer this, I will display this in sequence.

His ONLY argument to say that abortion is acceptible is to say that he thinks the babies that could have been born would be a waste of space.

Ok, so that means that the value of life is based on his personal opinion of the space a person would take up.

If I grant myself the SAME power over people as he does over babies, then by his own logic, I could be justified in killing him so long as I didn't like him taking up space.

See the problem with the logic?

yes, I see the problem with your logic. The problem is, you think a three week old fetus is a life, I do not.

Hence my post 3 pages back saying its pointless to argue because you keep on resorting to thinking people agree with you on this. Since nobody here has said they do, you're not making any sense and arguing apples vs oranges.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 02:33 PM   #165
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yes, I see the problem with your logic. The problem is, you think a three week old fetus is a life, I do not.

Hence my post 3 pages back saying its pointless to argue because you keep on resorting to thinking people agree with you on this. Since nobody here has said they do, you're not making any sense and arguing apples vs oranges.
Note: You presented no counter argument, so I will assume that you have none.

I never said a three week old fetus is life. Bad Kelly! Instead, I proposed REAL fact about a two month old fetus for you to agree or disagree with. You said you disagree, but provided ZERO fact or ZERO reasoning.

It is pointless to argue with you Kelly, because you can't admit it when you are wrong.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 02:47 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
Note: You presented no counter argument, so I will assume that you have none.

I never said a three week old fetus is life. Bad Kelly! Instead, I proposed REAL fact about a two month old fetus for you to agree or disagree with. You said you disagree, but provided ZERO fact or ZERO reasoning.

It is pointless to argue with you Kelly, because you can't admit it when you are wrong.
a religous man calling a non religious man out on bot providing facts? :tonka:

you kill me man.

//no pun intended.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 02:55 PM   #167
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a religous man calling a non religious man out on bot providing facts? :tonka:

you kill me man.

//no pun intended.
ad hominem

you're killing me too.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 02:57 PM   #168
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your such a fucking retard, how does you killing him or beating his wife in any way resemble abortion? abortion is when a woman chooses to kill her baby, not when someone else makes that decision for her.
Not in the condition where the woman pregnant is in a coma, either from illness, accident, or in in a pre-existing comatose state in which she is then raped and impregnated.

In these cases, according to Kerwin, its better to let both the woman and the fetus die, rather than save the mother.




I am 100% of the belief, that if there HAS to be a choice, you save the mother. Not all fetuses come to full term and survive. But if you allow the mother to die, there's no chance to try again (and conditions where the mother dies often result in the fetus dying as well).

But again, my position (having lost one unborn, got to see my wife almost die during an emergency c-section, we now have another on the way) is different than Dave Kerwins position (that being a santa hating douchebag).
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Old January 9th, 2008, 02:58 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
Let me answer this, I will display this in sequence.

His ONLY argument to say that abortion is acceptible is to say that he thinks the babies that could have been born would be a waste of space.

Ok, so that means that the value of life is based on his personal opinion of the space a person would take up.

If I grant myself the SAME power over people as he does over babies, then by his own logic, I could be justified in killing him so long as I didn't like him taking up space.

See the problem with the logic?
You always take portions of what someone says and twist them. They are a waste of space because they aren't wanted by their mothers and would most likely be treated badly if left to live. If you don't want something why would you treat it nicely?
Again, it is not my choice to abort a baby. It is the mother's choice and I support her choice either way. (run-around - AGAIN) But, if they do let the fetus go to term, I hope they raise the child well so they can become a useful person in our society. Don't skew the arguement based on what you want to read and understand.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 02:59 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
1. Then do something about the 95%
.
See, there's what makes you and your 2000 years of churchies into douchebags.

You don't like something. So your reaction is to force everyone into complying with your way of thinking or be punished.

Thats why we founded this country, to get away from all the Kerwins in the old world.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 03:01 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
But again, my position (having lost one unborn, got to see my wife almost die during an emergency c-section, we now have another on the way) is different than Dave Kerwins position (that being a santa hating douchebag).
Sorry to hear about the first but glad to hear about the next!
Here's to a happy, healthy little wheeler!
And yes Kerwin is a Santa hating @#$%^&. (I don't really think he is a douchebag, but he is something; not sure what, but he is something )
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Old January 9th, 2008, 03:24 PM   #172
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You always take portions of what someone says and twist them. They are a waste of space because they aren't wanted by their mothers and would most likely be treated badly if left to live. If you don't want something why would you treat it nicely?
Again, it is not my choice to abort a baby. It is the mother's choice and I support her choice either way. (run-around - AGAIN) But, if they do let the fetus go to term, I hope they raise the child well so they can become a useful person in our society. Don't skew the arguement based on what you want to read and understand.
I didn't twist anything, I used your words. If you want to add more qualifiers to make your positions stronger, then please do. Otherwise your logic is flawed, as I showed you.

I understand that a mother may want to abort for whatever reason, but the value of the life of the child is not dependant purely on the will of the mother. Sometimes people make rash decisions in the heat of the moment, during emotional distress, that they would no longer duplicate in hindsight. Just because a woman is fearful at a moment in time does not mean that she will abuse her child. That suggestion is silly. I do acknowledge that such a thing could happen though. But if everyone in society knew they could not take the easy way out of a mistake, then they may think twice about getting down and dirty without protection. Same with nations that remove your hand for stealing, people think twice under known consequences to actions.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 03:26 PM   #173
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See, there's what makes you and your 2000 years of churchies into douchebags.

You don't like something. So your reaction is to force everyone into complying with your way of thinking or be punished.

Thats why we founded this country, to get away from all the Kerwins in the old world.
You said you want to protect a woman's choice to abort in the case of rape, incest, or health threat. But you also said you do not like the conveninece abortions, which are 95% of the case. YOU said you didn't like conveicnece abortions, and I suggest that if you do not, that you do something about the 95% and leave the 5% cases alone. I am not forcing you to do anything you hag, but if what you say is true, that you love one and hate the other, then it would be expected that your actions would follow both.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 03:41 PM   #174
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I didn't twist anything, I used your words. If you want to add more qualifiers to make your positions stronger, then please do. Otherwise your logic is flawed, as I showed you.

I understand that a mother may want to abort for whatever reason, but the value of the life of the child is not dependant purely on the will of the mother. Sometimes people make rash decisions in the heat of the moment, during emotional distress, that they would no longer duplicate in hindsight. Just because a woman is fearful at a moment in time does not mean that she will abuse her child. That suggestion is silly. I do acknowledge that such a thing could happen though. But if everyone in society knew they could not take the easy way out of a mistake, then they may think twice about getting down and dirty without protection. Same with nations that remove your hand for stealing, people think twice under known consequences to actions.
Again, using words you want to use to sway your arguement. I didn't say the child would be abused. Neglected, unwanted, ignored. These are the things I was discussing. Maybe the children that are abused would be better off had they been aborted.
You did no such thing showing me my logic is flawed. In all your posts you say logic is flawed. This is because you let religion get in the way of your thoughts and believe in fantasy instead of logic. You really think your beliefs are fact. They are your OPINION. Just as I have mine. You don't present many facts to strengthen your arguement so don't disrespect mine. Your opinions are not facts that strengthen your arguement.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 03:52 PM   #175
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I also don't believe that a woman that is fearful for a moment has an abortion. Do you really think that many women are that insensitive? Women are VERY sensitive. I think the vast majority put a ton of thought into their action. Do a lot always think back and wonder what could have happened? Certainly. I'd hope so. It is a life changing experience to say the least. It is most likely the biggest decision of the lives and can't be easy. I would never want to be in that situation. But if I was, I would want be happy to know that it is my choice and not yours to decide what I can and can't do.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 04:28 PM   #176
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stevo, you're an idiot
coming from a man who lives to serve a non existent fairy tale being, that stings
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Old January 9th, 2008, 04:28 PM   #177
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A billboard in Pontiac says "THE LARGEST KILLER OF AFRICAN AMERICANS IS ABORTION"
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Old January 9th, 2008, 04:46 PM   #178
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Again, using words you want to use to sway your arguement. I didn't say the child would be abused. Neglected, unwanted, ignored. These are the things I was discussing. Maybe the children that are abused would be better off had they been aborted.
You did no such thing showing me my logic is flawed. In all your posts you say logic is flawed. This is because you let religion get in the way of your thoughts and believe in fantasy instead of logic. You really think your beliefs are fact. They are your OPINION. Just as I have mine. You don't present many facts to strengthen your arguement so don't disrespect mine. Your opinions are not facts that strengthen your arguement.
You did not specifically say that a mother would abuse a child she could not abort, but you sure did imply it when you said: "They are a waste of space because they aren't wanted by their mothers and would most likely be treated badly if left to live."

So please excuse me if I equate the word "abuse" with the phrase "treated badly." I did not twist your words man, I used an equivalent descriptor. If this minor item disturbed you, I apologize.

It is possible, in some cases, that the child would have a terrible life. But are you simply assuming that would be the case for everyone? If so how certain are you?

Friend, I DID show your logic flawed, and that was your invitation to define your argument. Instead of going from where I showed it, you left it alone. Ultimately what I am trying to show you is that your personal opinion of a child's value is NOT sufficient to remove its right to life, the same way that my devaluation of your life is not sufficient to destroy your life. It was a simple conclusion. Your logic was flawed for exactly that reason. Please, don't put religion into this discussion, your accusation is false. I have show my argument sound, and you have not, nor has anyone else, been able to show why abortion is just (the opposite of my argument that it is unjust).
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Old January 9th, 2008, 04:46 PM   #179
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A billboard in Pontiac says "THE LARGEST KILLER OF AFRICAN AMERICANS IS ABORTION"
And that statement is absolutely true, see http://www.blackgenocide.org/
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Old January 9th, 2008, 04:48 PM   #180
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And that statement is absolutely true, see www.blackgenoside.com
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