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Old January 8th, 2008, 12:57 PM   #61
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I know that this is a discussion forum but I would just like to know why we have to have people make these kind of threads? Everyone is entitled to their own rights, opinions, beliefs and what not so why cant we just leave it at that... Do you (Dave Kerwin) sit back and read this laughing at how worked up people get about these things? And another thing, Mr. Toes, if your profile is correct that you are a junior in high school? how dare you try to shove your thoughts down other peoples throats when you haven't even begun to live an adult life or had any real expirence in such matters.... I dont think that threads like this should be allowed on a 4x4 forum that is surposed to be fun to read, learn and meet other people... Just because I believe on way or another doesnt mean that it makes me someone that isn't fun to be around or go wheelen with. I've been wheelen with lots of people on this site and this topic has never come up....


On that note, have fun and I think this was a very uncalled for topic...............
This was awsome. People talking about something they have strong feelings about. Like "how dare you try to shove your thoughts down other peoples throats when you haven"t even begun to live an adult life or had any real experence in such matters" You like people to think you are correct in that statement, You sound like me. Input and debate is healthy weather it is whats better a CJ or YJ or hot political topics. I hope that I can convince you that I am right and you should think like me, cause if you do than we will continue to see your views ( the correct ones will mirror mine ) on whatever subject shows up. I value everyones point of view, and hey don't you think it 's a good thing to inject positive reinforcement into a teenagers life. NOT BAD FOR A 16 YEAR OLD.

Hugs and Kisses Mr Toes Dad
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Old January 8th, 2008, 01:00 PM   #62
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Old January 8th, 2008, 01:20 PM   #63
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This is of course A REACTION TO A CRIME against a GUILTY party. Abortion is the exact OPPOSITE. It is a reation to nothing against an INNOCENT party. DO NOT compare the two.
One could rather easily argue that abortion in the case of rape is reaction to a crime.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 01:40 PM   #64
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One could rather easily argue that abortion in the case of rape is reaction to a crime.
And if you did, you would have no argument for 99% of abortions, which are not from rape.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 01:45 PM   #65
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One could rather easily argue that abortion in the case of rape is reaction to a crime.
You just blew me away. That sounds like something I would say to my wife to put her in a tail spin. Her answer would probally sound something like this. O.K. you bald dumb ass but if your going to say something like that finsh your sentence. One could easily argue that abortion in the case of rape is a reaction to a crime by attacking the only person that is not a party to the crime. Next time someone breaks in your home or hurts your family go to your friends Grandmothers house and shoot her then say it was a reaction to a crime. Apples and Oranges.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 02:09 PM   #66
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This is my BIGGEST problem with abortion: Injustice.

Now let me explain: A pregancy results from two people gettin busy and making the third party. The two parents are the ones responsible for starting this new life. The child made no decisions, yet those who DID make decisions want to kill it. Now if someone is to suffer as a result of this new life, why should the party without responsibility receive punishment? That is unjustified. Where else in soceity do we issue unjust penalties to innocent parties?
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Old January 8th, 2008, 02:17 PM   #67
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You just blew me away. That sounds like something I would say to my wife to put her in a tail spin. Her answer would probally sound something like this. O.K. you bald dumb ass but if your going to say something like that finsh your sentence. One could easily argue that abortion in the case of rape is a reaction to a crime by attacking the only person that is not a party to the crime. Next time someone breaks in your home or hurts your family go to your friends Grandmothers house and shoot her then say it was a reaction to a crime. Apples and Oranges.
I didn't say anything except the statement. You read what you wanted into it.

Is it or is it not a true statement?

It doesn't say JUSTIFICATION, it says REACTION.



I find it funny how many men are willing to let their wives die..
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Old January 8th, 2008, 02:24 PM   #68
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This is my BIGGEST problem with abortion: Injustice.

Now let me explain: A pregancy results from two people gettin busy and making the third party. The two parents are the ones responsible for starting this new life. The child made no decisions, yet those who DID make decisions want to kill it. Now if someone is to suffer as a result of this new life, why should the party without responsibility receive punishment? That is unjustified. Where else in soceity do we issue unjust penalties to innocent parties?
As always, you see only the portion of the arguement you want to see.

If the child has no chance of living for more than a few days/weeks and those will be in agony, should you be merciful or allow this baby to suffer unjust agony?

If your wife is diagnosed after conception with aggressive cancer, treatment will kill the baby, lack of treatment will kill both, options should exist.

If you have a daughter, and when she's 11 she's raped. The pregnancy might kill her young body. What then?


This is what happens when you don't open up and let the light of Santa Claus into your life.


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Old January 8th, 2008, 02:50 PM   #69
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I didn't say anything except the statement. You read what you wanted into it.

Is it or is it not a true statement?

It doesn't say JUSTIFICATION, it says REACTION.



I find it funny how many men are willing to let their wives die..
The only point I was making is my wife is mean to me. lol
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Old January 8th, 2008, 02:51 PM   #70
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Hag, no responce to me.

Arrrrg, be a man.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 06:59 PM   #71
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As always, you see only the portion of the arguement you want to see.

If the child has no chance of living for more than a few days/weeks and those will be in agony, should you be merciful or allow this baby to suffer unjust agony?

If your wife is diagnosed after conception with aggressive cancer, treatment will kill the baby, lack of treatment will kill both, options should exist.

If you have a daughter, and when she's 11 she's raped. The pregnancy might kill her young body. What then?


This is what happens when you don't open up and let the light of Santa Claus into your life.





OMFG that is great!



On a side note lets look at the definition of Slavery

slav·er·y (slā'və-rē, slāv'rē)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

noun: pl., -ies.
1. The state of one bound in servitude as the property of a slaveholder or household.

a. The practice of owning slaves.
b. A mode of production in which slaves constitute the principal work force.

2. The condition of being subject or addicted to a specified influence.
3. A condition of hard work and subjection: wage slavery.


In this definition we must note that Slavery is not 100% illegal. In fact Slavery and Abortion have a lot in common since the gov't says that your kids are your property. Pets are slaves as well and the gov't has rules about how to treat these slaves just like your kids.
Many of us are slaves to our jobs and the gov't, the working class of America has long been enslaved to their jobs and the powers that be. Many of us work our asses off for the same thing the original slaves did, food and shelter.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 07:55 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by DUNTRUCKIN View Post
I know that this is a discussion forum but I would just like to know why we have to have people make these kind of threads? Everyone is entitled to their own rights, opinions, beliefs and what not so why cant we just leave it at that... Do you (Dave Kerwin) sit back and read this laughing at how worked up people get about these things? And another thing, Mr. Toes, if your profile is correct that you are a junior in high school? how dare you try to shove your thoughts down other peoples throats when you haven't even begun to live an adult life or had any real expirence in such matters.... I dont think that threads like this should be allowed on a 4x4 forum that is surposed to be fun to read, learn and meet other people... Just because I believe on way or another doesnt mean that it makes me someone that isn't fun to be around or go wheelen with. I've been wheelen with lots of people on this site and this topic has never come up....


On that note, have fun and I think this was a very uncalled for topic...............
You might want to consider reading the description of this particular forum before you enter.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 08:08 PM   #73
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You might want to consider reading the description of this particular forum before you enter.
I know where I am. If you read earlier in the thread you would see what my wife posted and how she was talked to after that, that is why I said what I did. My wife is Pro-choice. She was raped, got pregnant and had an abortion 20 years ago, yes she regrets what she did but at least had the option to do what was right for her at the time. But has kinda been attacted by people who are closed minded and only want to see things their way. We are not saying it is right or wrong, thats in your beliefs, all we are saying is that people should have options ..... thanks
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Old January 8th, 2008, 08:14 PM   #74
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I am neither pro-choice or pro-life. And by that I do not see those with opposite views as my own as being anti-choice or anti-life.

I think everyone should have choices, and hope everyone choses life. If a women get pregnant as the result of rape she didn't get a choice in that matter, therefor I think she should be given the choice to abort.

If it's a matter of mother's and/or baby's health then I think the couple has a tough choice to make. I think this choice should be between the couple and their doctor.

If a couple has consensual sex and the woman gets pregnant I think they've already made their choice. They made the choice to have sex. They made the choice on birth control or lack there of. It's now time for them to live with the consequences of their choices. I don't believe that at that point that abortion is the proper choice.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 08:18 PM   #75
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This is my BIGGEST problem with abortion: Injustice.

Now let me explain: A pregancy results from two people gettin busy and making the third party. The two parents are the ones responsible for starting this new life. The child made no decisions, yet those who DID make decisions want to kill it. Now if someone is to suffer as a result of this new life, why should the party without responsibility receive punishment? That is unjustified. Where else in soceity do we issue unjust penalties to innocent parties?
Are we talking about the society of the USA here or any society?
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Old January 8th, 2008, 08:33 PM   #76
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I know where I am. If you read earlier in the thread you would see what my wife posted and how she was talked to after that, that is why I said what I did. My wife is Pro-choice. She was raped, got pregnant and had an abortion 20 years ago, yes she regrets what she did but at least had the option to do what was right for her at the time. But has kinda been attacted by people who are closed minded and only want to see things their way. We are not saying it is right or wrong, thats in your beliefs, all we are saying is that people should have options ..... thanks
I totally agree with you about people needing options. I also sympathize with your wife and could not even begin to imagine how horrible a situation that must have been and would never be judgmental towards her regardless of which choice she made.
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Old January 8th, 2008, 08:37 PM   #77
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I am neither pro-choice or pro-life. And by that I do not see those with opposite views as my own as being anti-choice or anti-life.

I think everyone should have choices, and hope everyone choses life. If a women get pregnant as the result of rape she didn't get a choice in that matter, therefor I think she should be given the choice to abort.

If it's a matter of mother's and/or baby's health then I think the couple has a tough choice to make. I think this choice should be between the couple and their doctor.

If a couple has consensual sex and the woman gets pregnant I think they've already made their choice. They made the choice to have sex. They made the choice on birth control or lack there of. It's now time for them to live with the consequences of their choices. I don't believe that at that point that abortion is the proper choice.
I completely agree with how you stated this.....
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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:18 AM   #78
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Are we talking about the society of the USA here or any society?
I think you missed the point.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:21 AM   #79
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I completely agree with how you stated this.....
Hey! No serious replies on this forum, it is about 4x4's!!!

I find it interesting that your wife regrets her decision. I do not judge her for what she did (honestly I don't), but the fact that she regrets it says something of the nature of the act.


What nobody wants to address is the justice factor, or the comparison I made previously about how slavery was ok, then illegal, yet abortion is clearly more harmful, yet is still not illegal.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:23 AM   #80
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I think everyone should have choices...
And when would your extention of this end?

What if men who are attracted to little boys wanted to choice to go to young boy peep shows? What if some of the little boys liked the choice to get paid to be naked and looked at?

When does choice become a matter of what is right for society? At what point does choice become WRONG????
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