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Old January 20th, 2008, 11:10 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
YOU GOT A BABY, and in 16 years you'll be taking it to get its drivers license.
Look at your son and tell yourself it would be O.K. to terminate him. Thats what makes me so PRO LIFE.
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I'm not so financially strapped and living in a bad situation that I could not effectively raise and support a child. Hundreds of thousands of single women (girls) are. They get lied to by young men with hard-ons and are impregnated because they are raised in homes that couldn't effectively raise and support them either, were lloking for love and stability that they never had, and what little education they did get did NOT include contraception (because the religious right fought it).

Here's the thing: I grew up in an area where people were quite poor, no stable home, single moms, crime, drugs, etc (my mom was a drunk, and my older sister was a drug addict and tramp). These people just DID NOT KNOW of anything different. Some of us left early (and not by choice. I was running from alot of trouble and luckily landed in a good place), and because we were lucky enough to be white, were accepted in to a better environment when we tried. Some of my friends weren't so fortunate, and ended up right back where they started.

I love my son too, but I've also had the time for that to develop. When there is just a fertilized egg inside of a girl that didn't want to be pregnant in the first place, it is (at least in her young mind) the end of youth, and the end of any dreams she might have had. Yes, there are programs and there are possiblities, but YOU are not the single young girl whose boyfriend suddenly doesn't want anything to do with her.

Spend some time with some of these young girls and find out that the choice to abort also tears them up. Many of them never get over it, but also realize at the same time that they never could have raised the child either. You are a man and have a simplistic, one-sided view of it. You are not even TRYING to put yourself in their situation.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 11:11 AM   #382
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By the way, I am pro life in that I would prefer that children weren't aborted, but I also am opposed to anyone thinking that they are better suited to decide to make the decision than the person that it is happening too. I feel the same way about euthanasia.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 02:05 PM   #383
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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
I'm not so financially strapped and living in a bad situation that I could not effectively raise and support a child. Hundreds of thousands of single women (girls) are. They get lied to by young men with hard-ons and are impregnated because they are raised in homes that couldn't effectively raise and support them either, were lloking for love and stability that they never had, and what little education they did get did NOT include contraception (because the religious right fought it).

Here's the thing: I grew up in an area where people were quite poor, no stable home, single moms, crime, drugs, etc (my mom was a drunk, and my older sister was a drug addict and tramp). These people just DID NOT KNOW of anything different. Some of us left early (and not by choice. I was running from alot of trouble and luckily landed in a good place), and because we were lucky enough to be white, were accepted in to a better environment when we tried. Some of my friends weren't so fortunate, and ended up right back where they started.

I love my son too, but I've also had the time for that to develop. When there is just a fertilized egg inside of a girl that didn't want to be pregnant in the first place, it is (at least in her young mind) the end of youth, and the end of any dreams she might have had. Yes, there are programs and there are possiblities, but YOU are not the single young girl whose boyfriend suddenly doesn't want anything to do with her.

Spend some time with some of these young girls and find out that the choice to abort also tears them up. Many of them never get over it, but also realize at the same time that they never could have raised the child either. You are a man and have a simplistic, one-sided view of it. You are not even TRYING to put yourself in their situation.

I've already been 16 years old and I think that when you or I look at our childeren ( my son is 16 ) that we must impress on people that when you have an abortion you have eliminated any chance of what your having with your son. It's worth the work.
Just in the few day's of topic discussions I have to say I'm glad you mother kept you, as you have contributed alot of positive influence to this site.
I think people have to build on the positive foundation of a situation and realize every thing usally ends up better when you work harder. The quick fix isn't always the best fix.
You already said that when you said the decission to abort tears them up. It dose'nt stop when their 16.















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Old January 20th, 2008, 02:10 PM   #384
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By the way, I am pro life in that I would prefer that children weren't aborted, but I also am opposed to anyone thinking that they are better suited to decide to make the decision than the person that it is happening too. I feel the same way about euthanasia.

If you go back a little in this thread you'll see a little something I wrote about wearing someone else's shoe's.

You never know how they are going to fit.

Question, not an argument. As you stand today can you imagine a time when you son was not your son.















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Old January 21st, 2008, 07:55 AM   #385
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Hmmm... So what if their condom failed.....? What if they were young and didn't know how to properly USE a condom becasue the religious right had their way tand their was no contraception education in scools, so they put it on wrong and 'oops'! Then what?
Then you understand why those religious nut parents were right, and you start living the way that they tell you, now that you have to be responsible and all.

So what if that fire extinguisher failed? What if they were young and didnt know that playing with lighters can cause a someone to lose their life in a fire? All this because some people don't want kids playing with fire. Then what?? Are you saying that the guilty 16 year old should be waived of ANY responsibility?
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Old January 21st, 2008, 07:57 AM   #386
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Spend some time with some of these young girls and find out that the choice to abort also tears them up. Many of them never get over it, but also realize at the same time that they never could have raised the child either. You are a man and have a simplistic, one-sided view of it. You are not even TRYING to put yourself in their situation.
Perhaps with adoption, they could have had a clear conscience on the matter. Perhaps when laws change, these girls will think twice before making a decision to have sex. Does the situation suck for them? YES. Did they put themselves in it? YES. Is there a way out that does not involve killing a baby? YES.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 08:49 AM   #387
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Then you understand why those religious nut parents were right, and you start living the way that they tell you, now that you have to be responsible and all.
You are straight up retarded if you think making abortions illegal and promoting abstinence instead of safe sex the solution to this issue.

But that is a whole other topic.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 02:27 PM   #388
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You are straight up retarded if you think making abortions illegal and promoting abstinence instead of safe sex the solution to this issue.

But that is a whole other topic.
You thought I implied it, but I did not. Instead, I was advising the person who is pregnant to STARTlistening to those "wacko parents" , because it is too late to go back.

Thanks for assuming the best
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Old January 21st, 2008, 02:28 PM   #389
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Because today is MLK day, I thought I would quote him, I think his statement is applicable to this topic:

"Injustice anywhere is a
threat to justice everywhere."
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Old January 21st, 2008, 02:30 PM   #390
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MLK also said:

"The black man cannot win if he' s willing to sacrifice
his own children for immediate comfort and safety"





Dang, go King!

Last edited by Dave Kerwin; January 21st, 2008 at 02:47 PM.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 02:59 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by Mr Toes View Post
If you go back a little in this thread you'll see a little something I wrote about wearing someone else's shoe's.

You never know how they are going to fit.

Question, not an argument. As you stand today can you imagine a time when you son was not your son.
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Yes. I can. Am I misunderstanding the question? Obviously you watned me to say no, but I can certainly remember 20 years ago. Easy.










Boots? The Phantom must dresses like a lumberjack? Oh, he's a lumberjack and he's O.K......
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Old January 21st, 2008, 03:08 PM   #392
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Then you understand why those religious nut parents were right, and you start living the way that they tell you, now that you have to be responsible and all.

So what if that fire extinguisher failed? What if they were young and didnt know that playing with lighters can cause a someone to lose their life in a fire? All this because some people don't want kids playing with fire. Then what?? Are you saying that the guilty 16 year old should be waived of ANY responsibility?
Since you made a couple of points/raised a couple of questions, I'll address them one at a time:

1. That's great for kids that don't go too far astray. What about the drug addicts (my sister) that are so far gone that they could NEVER raise a child, but get pregnant due to what they do to support their drug abuse (my sister). I'm glad she never kept any. They probably would have been born addicts anyway. And since most of you right wingers hate social programs, you probably would have had them cut anyway. And since all of you have one excuse or another why you can't, none of you would have adopted them either. Where would that have left the children? Or do you really care about them after they're born?

2. Fire extinguishers require MAINTENACE and TRAINING, otherwise they're useless. Just like contraception. We should train and reinforce it in schools, not abolish it because it's IMMORAL.

3. I was young and had been repeatedly told about fire before I burned shit down. How about you> Ever play with fire? Tell the truth. He who is without sin cast the first stone.

4. I think that the 16 year old, or ANY year old, should definitely be responsible, but then they are the ones that have to live with it, and that has to be pretty damn rough. Remember, it is in the nature of most woman to WANT to have babies. Imagine their having to chose not to.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 03:16 PM   #393
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:chiefwoohaw:
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Perhaps with adoption, they could have had a clear conscience on the matter. Perhaps when laws change, these girls will think twice before making a decision to have sex. Does the situation suck for them? YES. Did they put themselves in it? YES. Is there a way out that does not involve killing a baby? YES.
Okay, if you take the number of adoptions and add the number of children that are born in to homes that will never care for them, abandon them or neglect them (my home), then compare that to how many people are looking to adopt, and how many of you right wingers are willing to pay extra taxes for social welfare, single payer health care, and universal education instead of war for oil in the middle east, there might be a shortfall.

I noticed that there are still no takers to adopt some of these kids you keep saying shouldn't be aborted. In the time we've been arguing this there have been hundreds, even thousands of abortions. How many of you have volunteered to care for one of these children? None? Oh, so it was just empty talk then. Anyone offer to pay extra taxes for their care? No? More empty talk.

Adoption my ass. How many of you want a black baby? Oh, is that where you draw the line? What about a Hispanic baby? No? What about ANY baby? **more silence and crickets**

:chiefwoohaw::chiefwoohaw::chiefwoohaw:
:chiefwoohaw::chiefwoohaw::chiefwoohaw:
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Old January 21st, 2008, 03:17 PM   #394
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Originally Posted by AGoodBuzz View Post
Since you made a couple of points/raised a couple of questions, I'll address them one at a time:

1. That's great for kids that don't go too far astray. What about the drug addicts (my sister) that are so far gone that they could NEVER raise a child, but get pregnant due to what they do to support their drug abuse (my sister). I'm glad she never kept any. They probably would have been born addicts anyway. And since most of you right wingers hate social programs, you probably would have had them cut anyway. And since all of you have one excuse or another why you can't, none of you would have adopted them either. Where would that have left the children? Or do you really care about them after they're born?

2. Fire extinguishers require MAINTENACE and TRAINING, otherwise they're useless. Just like contraception. We should train and reinforce it in schools, not abolish it because it's IMMORAL.

3. I was young and had been repeatedly told about fire before I burned shit down. How about you> Ever play with fire? Tell the truth. He who is without sin cast the first stone.

4. I think that the 16 year old, or ANY year old, should definitely be responsible, but then they are the ones that have to live with it, and that has to be pretty damn rough. Remember, it is in the nature of most woman to WANT to have babies. Imagine their having to chose not to.
1. That is a tough situation, perhaps you can pay for her tubes to be tied. And if you need to raise some money, maybe we can have a benefit event and get her some rehab help too.

2. Perhaps a parent can do a parents job, and a school can do a school's job. But this is a moot point.

3. Sure did, but what is your point? I was using a similar argument to show you the flaw in the first one. Just because there is a bad situation does NOT mean one should be balied out at the cost of another's life.

4. Good, I am glad we argree that people should be responsible for their decisions and their actions.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 03:18 PM   #395
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:chiefwoohaw:

Okay, if you take the number of adoptions and add the number of children that are born in to homes that will never care for them, abandon them or neglect them (my home), then compare that to how many people are looking to adopt, and how many of you right wingers are willing to pay extra taxes for social welfare, single payer health care, and universal education instead of war for oil in the middle east, there might be a shortfall.

I noticed that there are still no takers to adopt some of these kids you keep saying shouldn't be aborted. In the time we've been arguing this there have been hundreds, even thousands of abortions. How many of you have volunteered to care for one of these children? None? Oh, so it was just empty talk then. Anyone offer to pay extra taxes for their care? No? More empty talk.

Adoption my ass. How many of you want a black baby? Oh, is that where you draw the line? What about a Hispanic baby? No? What about ANY baby? **more silence and crickets**
go back and read the thread, instead of being a jerk.
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Old January 21st, 2008, 03:26 PM   #396
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Dave, you likely have already talked about this but I am not reading the last however many pages to find out.

If carrying the child to term meant the mother and possibly child could or would die?

also

If the child was a result of a violent rape?
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Old January 21st, 2008, 04:35 PM   #397
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Dave, you likely have already talked about this but I am not reading the last however many pages to find out.

If carrying the child to term meant the mother and possibly child could or would die?

also

If the child was a result of a violent rape?
Fair enough.

Personally, I don't have a HUGE opinion on the Mother's health dilemma. It seems like it is not as predictable as doctor's want us to believe. With the rape issue, I think that abortion is still wrong.

In terms of legislation, I am after the 95% of them to become illegal because they are simply convenience abortions, and most people will evetually see that if we allow any injustice among us, that it will threaten ALL justice (thanks Dr. King!).
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Old January 21st, 2008, 05:54 PM   #398
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Yes. I can. Am I misunderstanding the question? Obviously you watned me to say no, but I can certainly remember 20 years ago. Easy.










Boots? The Phantom must dresses like a lumberjack? Oh, he's a lumberjack and he's O.K......
I look at my kid's and I look at the changes and growth they have gone through. When I do that I cannot say that there is a time, after my wife got pregnant, that those children were'nt who they are. They are as much of who they are at birth , at two years old, and at conception.
This is not an argument it's how I feel and how I see my children.
Thats kind of the question I was asking











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The Phantom is not a lumber jack but he has meet Pual Bunyon. TIMBER!!!
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Old January 21st, 2008, 05:57 PM   #399
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Dave, you likely have already talked about this but I am not reading the last however many pages to find out.

If carrying the child to term meant the mother and possibly child could or would die?

also

If the child was a result of a violent rape?
Look at your avitar. When is it alright to abort that little guy, no matter how he started.















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Old January 21st, 2008, 06:01 PM   #400
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[QUOTE=Dave Kerwin;911398]Fair enough.

Personally, I don't have a HUGE opinion on the Mother's health dilemma. It seems like it is not as predictable as doctor's want us to believe. With the rape issue, I think that abortion is still wrong.

In terms of legislation, I am after 1000000000% of them to become illegal because I'm a Pro life Maniac me and Mr Toes

I fixed Dave Kerwins remarks he slid into a little puddle of Liberalism.

















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