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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:25 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
1. The life of a baby STILL is not sustainable outside the womb even after it is born, it cannot survive. But I think you are on to something about conception, about a life having that one of a kind DNA.

2. Yes there should, and here is why: the death penalty is the termination of life as a penalty to a crime. Abortion is the termination of life as a result of SOMEONE ELSE's mistake. This is the main point for me, because a child in the womb did not ask to be made, a child in the womb has no voice or choice, and a child in the womb should not be the target of punishment. But someone who gets the death penalty is justly receiving punishment for wrongdoing. A baby has done no wrong.
How the hell do I highlight stuff?

You said. The life of a baby STILL is not sustainable outside the womb even after it is born, it cannot survive.


Your nit picking. It obviously did not mean literally. It was in reference to a time frame. That time frame being that when its out of the womb its here to see in person, for real, actually there in sight. Not in the woman, and a part of her yet unseen, or brought out into the world.So was the guy that posted above wrong about the girl that was raped? Should she not have an abortion?
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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:25 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by K&J's Dad View Post
We could discuss this for eternity and never agree because even the medical experts can't agree on when life starts. Is it the first heartbeat? First brain activity? Third trimester? Birth? The discuss is pointless beyond opinion.
There are social factors that play heavily on this. It isn't just about when we classify them from fetus to child. The social ramifications are almost always overlooked by the religious followers that are so adamently against abortion. And yes, religion is a driving factor. Their perception of life can and does include the soul.

If you want to really push the limit of life then what about the egg and sperm? Are they not alive? Every time you masterbate you are killing thousands of your pontential children. I am being funny and serious here. It is quite funny but also serious that they are alive and can be the beginning of life. Your wife's birth control is killing the egg. Where is the injustice in this?

To me a birth control pill, morning after pill, and abortion (up to the beginning of the trimester) are all the same. It is not a life yet. This is my opinion and I stand by it. I look at the social benefits abortion brings and find more positives than negatives. ie - saving taxpayers dollars, reduced medical costs, extra resources, less criminals, possibly less child abuse, etc.....

And yes I look at the semantics when you look at meaning completely different than intended. It is clear we both disagree but please don't read into it more than I have typed. I try to be as clear as possible but it is difficult to describe things without tone or expression.
Allow me to correct you, we DO know when the heart starts to beat and when the brain begins to send signals, and when arms and fingers are there, and when eyes and digestive system are in place. As a matter of fact, that picture I posted... .. ALL of the aformentioned developments are in place. Go adhead and research it.

we already covered masturbation, you must have been busy... .. master debating.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:28 PM   #203
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even if she didnt want it?
correct. I wouldn't technically want it either, but I would not kill the child who did nothing wrong. If I was gonna kill anyone, I would kill the rapist. Now of course I hope I would not do that, but I would not kill the innocent, out of principle. We would take the child as our own, and grow to love the child. If for some reason it was too painful, it would be adopted... .. but that child would still be of my wife whom I love, it would be a tough decision, but the answer would not be to kill the child.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:30 PM   #204
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How the hell do I highlight stuff?

You said. The life of a baby STILL is not sustainable outside the womb even after it is born, it cannot survive.


Your nit picking. It obviously did not mean literally. It was in reference to a time frame. That time frame being that when its out of the womb its here to see in person, for real, actually there in sight. Not in the woman, and a part of her yet unseen, or brought out into the world.So was the guy that posted above wrong about the girl that was raped? Should she not have an abortion?

The life outside the womb argument is weak, because born children cant survive either. The argument holds no water.

She can make her own choices and I can make mine. But I do not think two wrongs make a right. This answer may be insensitive, but the situation sucked to begin with, and it may only get worse by aborting the child.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:31 PM   #205
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correct. I wouldn't technically want it either, but I would not kill the child who did nothing wrong. If I was gonna kill anyone, I would kill the rapist. Now of course I hope I would not do that, but I would not kill the innocent, out of principle. We would take the child as our own, and grow to love the child. If for some reason it was too painful, it would be adopted... .. but that child would still be of my wife whom I love, it would be a tough decision, but the answer would not be to kill the child.
so you would take the decision out of her hands? your a real piece of work.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:33 PM   #206
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Abortions are done up to 10 weeks. After that it does have a heartbeat and starts developing.

What if that 17 year old was your daughter and she did not want to keep the baby, would you still make her with your twisted way of thinking...
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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:35 PM   #207
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so you would take the decision out of her hands? your a real piece of work.
No, but Steve, if you could read, you would be able to see that I said my wife and I decided. This means we made the decision together.

How could we impute the penalty for a crime that someone else committed on an innocent victim?
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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:37 PM   #208
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Abortions are done up to 10 weeks. After that it does have a heartbeat and starts developing.

What if that 17 year old was your daughter and she did not want to keep the baby, would you still make her with your twisted way of thinking...
Heartbeat comes way before ten weeks, you may want to research this stuff.

If it happened to my daughter, and she was a minor, I would hope she went with her Mother and I's opinion. I don't suppose I would force her, but I would council her to do the right thing, regardless of how painful it is. The easy thing to do is not always the right thing to do. I would support her though it all, but I sure hope she would be on board.

Like I said before, I do not judge you, but you asked me how I would personally handle it, and my thoughts, and I have shared them with you, because you asked.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:45 PM   #209
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This is the main point for me, because a child in the womb did not ask to be made, a child in the womb has no voice or choice, and a child in the womb should not be the target of punishment.
And this is the point for me.

1. I did not asked to get raped and inpregnanted........... I had no voice or
choice on the matter either, so do my feeling not matter?????

2. It would have been punishment for me to have to carry that baby
knowing how it was conceived. And to look at that baby everyday
seeing the person who did this to me...
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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:49 PM   #210
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Ya know you want everyones input on this but your not willing to see it from thier point of view. No matter what someone says you tell them they are wrong... All I'm asking is to see it from my side because I can see it from yours.

The 10 week comment was what was told to me 20 years ago when all this happened....
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Old January 9th, 2008, 07:55 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
No, but Steve, if you could read, you would be able to see that I said my wife and I decided. This means we made the decision together.

How could we impute the penalty for a crime that someone else committed on an innocent victim?
i can read. you are assuming your wife would carry the baby to term. you cannot say what she would do in that situation for sure. does she do everything you tell her to? i bet she walks 10 steps behind you like a proper woman.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 08:05 PM   #212
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i can read. you are assuming your wife would carry the baby to term. you cannot say what she would do in that situation for sure. does she do everything you tell her to? i bet she walks 10 steps behind you like a proper woman.
O SNAP

MUSLIM DAVE IN THA HOUSE!
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Old January 9th, 2008, 08:15 PM   #213
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what now dave? you running from an argument??? where is your rebuttal?? or are you making a dynamite vest and getting ready for a jihad?
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Old January 9th, 2008, 08:19 PM   #214
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And when would your extention of this end?

What if men who are attracted to little boys wanted to choice to go to young boy peep shows? What if some of the little boys liked the choice to get paid to be naked and looked at?

When does choice become a matter of what is right for society? At what point does choice become WRONG????
Your right to choice ends when it interferes with someone else's right to choice. Society has decided that the little boys in your example are too young to make those choices and so we have laws to protect them from that situation.

You will of course respond that a womans choice to have an abortion violates the baby's right to chose life and so society should also have laws to protect them.

My response to that will be that when a baby achieves rights will depend on when you consider life to begin, which will bring this right up to date with the current status of the debate.

You will then ask me when I consider life to begin.

My response to that is that I really don't know when life begins. I'm torn on defining it as at conception or at the point of viability outside the mothers body. But if you ask the society as a whole the answers will range from when the sperm and egg are created inside the parents body to when they can move out of the house and financial support themselves. And since society can not come to an agreement on this issue I am not in favor of passing laws that impose a certain belief.

And before you can twist that statement into something absurd I do think that any argument to put the point of life beginning at before conception or after birth is ridiculous and not worth considering. I also believe that an abortion after the point of viability to be murder. As to any other point to define when life begins between those points I think that unless science can prove that the baby has a "sole" or can feel pain the it should be a personal decision, not a legal one.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 08:53 PM   #215
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I know where I am. If you read earlier in the thread you would see what my wife posted and how she was talked to after that, that is why I said what I did. My wife is Pro-choice. She was raped, got pregnant and had an abortion 20 years ago, yes she regrets what she did but at least had the option to do what was right for her at the time. But has kinda been attacted by people who are closed minded and only want to see things their way. We are not saying it is right or wrong, thats in your beliefs, all we are saying is that people should have options ..... thanks
DUUUUUUUUUUUde when you start talking about stuff from 20 years ago it freaks me out. YOU'RE OLD. Man you gotta be like Madonna with Dennis Rodman old, or The Knack singing My sharonna old. Dude 20 years ago that was like the 80s and stuff. Did you Disco Dance and listen to Donna Summers. Damn are you like on social security and shit. I guess since your such an old fart thats why you can articulate so well, and I guess we should listen to our elders or at least try to learn from them. ( even if the are so old they fart dust ) Keep on keepin on. or some old saying or something.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 09:02 PM   #216
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<------ Inventory on Coat Hangers almost gone!!!!!!

Pm for final deals
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Old January 9th, 2008, 09:32 PM   #217
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Mr. Toes with every post you make it just shows how young and uneducated in life you are.... Unless you want your dad to jump all over me being a little harsh to the youngster.....
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Old January 9th, 2008, 09:53 PM   #218
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Heartbeat comes way before ten weeks, you may want to research this stuff.

If it happened to my daughter, and she was a minor, I would hope she went with her Mother and I's opinion. I don't suppose I would force her, but I would council her to do the right thing, regardless of how painful it is. The easy thing to do is not always the right thing to do. I would support her though it all, but I sure hope she would be on board.

Like I said before, I do not judge you, but you asked me how I would personally handle it, and my thoughts, and I have shared them with you, because you asked.
I stepped aside for a bit but IM BACK. If you guys are going to discuss this spit out some facts that you can support or have first hand knowledge of. K&J Daddyo. Abortion is not limited to 10 weeks. What you do have at ten weeks is a very distinguishable person. Now you seem to be the knower of all so how do you make the iron clad decision when ten weeks is in a pregnancy please tell because not a doctor alive can make the distinction between 70 days(that would be ten weeks) and 69days or 68 days or for that matter 71 days which would be over your ten week bullshit. So now tell me how you have a person at 70 days but not 69days 23 hours. As for the pulse it begins at conception. We learned this in science class they actually had a film that showed this. Some people on here have indicated this is close to home. Well me to. I have a sister that was a premy and when she was born the doctor said she could be legally aborted so I have got to say she is a person and anyone that says different can kiss my ass. Bottom line no matter what you want to say about anything that leads to the pregnancy your are ending human life with abortion. You should stand up and be a man and say it like it is the unborn baby can't kick your ass so thats who you pick on. As far as crime going down since the legalization of abortion you are so full of shit on that, all you have to do is watch any news channel at the end of the year and some liberal ass sucking piece of shit will try to manipulate statistics by suggesting that because the crime rate did not climb at the same pace as the previous year crime has gone down. Abortion and prolife are black and white I'm Pro life period no swaying no ifs ands or butts. You make your choice and I will judge you if I want thats my Choice. Hey does that make me PRO CHOICE not.
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Old January 9th, 2008, 09:56 PM   #219
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Mr. Toes with every post you make it just shows how young and uneducated in life you are.... Unless you want your dad to jump all over me being a little harsh to the youngster.....
Hey genius I was giving you a compliment. Maybee your to old to realize that!!
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Old January 9th, 2008, 09:59 PM   #220
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mr. toes, its people like you who cause me to support abortion.
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