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Old December 21st, 2007, 07:34 PM   #1
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Default Faith v. Santa...

So need some opinions here.. I'll try'n keep this short (edit - i diden't) and still get the pertinante background out there..

In NJ, I met a girl from GR who was in town for grad school (we're both early 30's - you might need that info as you read on). Started dating her. Few months in we get into a semi-heated debate about whether or not children should be raised believeing in Santa.. She, who grew up in GR, said that she was never taught Santa was real, Santa didn't brings gifts, etc.. She said that teaching kids about Santa was taking away from the real meaning of Chirstmas...

I say, yeah, I agree that kids who are raised as Christian should not be allowed to believe that Christmas is 100% about Santa and gifts.. as Christian parents, we should be totally capable of teaching our kids the real meaning of Christmas.. and we should also be able to incorporate Santa into the mix... I think believing in Santa is part of being a kid..

the debate went on - she stood firmly on the ground that any belief in Santa was against the true meaning of christmas .. there was no way to balance the two.. I disagree..

-- you may comment on this debate, and plese do, but my real question is coming --

not making any ground in the debate, I switched to a new position.. I said I didn't want my kids growing up being the odd-balls.. I did that.. it wasn't fun.. I didn't want my kids being the only ones in school not talking about Santa.. or even worse, the only kid in the class telling all the others there's no Santa.. what are we going to do, tell Susie and Tommy that no there is no Santa, but keep your mouth shut and don't disagree with all the other kids - yeah, that'll work...

wife threw out a trump card.. she said that when she was growing up in GR and going to Christian Schools, none of the other kids did the Santa thing either (here's where our ages might come into play?).. she said that a Santa believer in her school would have been the odd-ball..

in NJ, every kid I knew believed in Santa.. So, our little debate ended with the concensus that we would revisit this once we had kids... at the time, it was 50/50 if that was going to be in NJ or GR... we'll.. we're now officially in GR.. and I'm testing her statement that kids (some, many, a few?) out here in GR are raised w/o Santa..

were you raised w/ or w/o Santa? what are you doing with your kids? where would you consider yourself on the religious spectrum so I can gage your answer... since I do want to send my kids to Christian schools, I'm hoping to get a feeling for the spread of kids in those types of schools who do or don't believe in Santa..

anyway.. long question / rant.. thanks for reading....
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Old December 21st, 2007, 07:38 PM   #2
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You are married and meeting other women out of state?
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Old December 21st, 2007, 07:40 PM   #3
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somewhere in there I should have mentioned that I married the girl from GR and let her talk me into moving out here....
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Old December 21st, 2007, 07:45 PM   #4
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:tonka:

I am agnostic and raising my son with strong morals towards man and earth. We celebrate family/friends and the spirit of Santa at Christmas.
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Old December 21st, 2007, 07:52 PM   #5
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How about you present this to her:

There is a Santa, look at how mindsleeyer (I know that is not how you spell his name, but he has a post in the pub about the people of gl making him cry) was able to provide his kids with a Christmas. Look at Bear, who tonight, gave Christmas to a lot of homeless children. Look at th guy from Howell that gives the Salvation Army a gold bar wrapped in a $100 bill ever year.

My kids get presents ever year. But, at every chance they get, the donate toys to children who are not as lucky as they are. Be a Santa to your children, but let them be a Santa to another child who is not a fourtunate (sp) as they are. Next year, be one of Bear's elves, and help him do his Christmas party, and take the children.

I think that there is a very good compramise for the twoof you, with BOTH of you passing on family traditions.

Not everyone is as lucky as we are.
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Old December 21st, 2007, 07:53 PM   #6
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I grew up with Santa till about maybe 8 or 9. I've been a church kid my whole entire life. My dad is a Pastor. My faith is my own, and my parents had an effect but I made the Decision my self about a year ago. Not to become a Christian, but to make my faith my own and finally step out from underneith my parents beliefs. BTW. I'm 22.

I would have to agree with you. I don't think it'll hurt to have them think there is a santa Claus. But, If they ask you if he's real you should tell them the truth and use that oppurtunity to solidify the true meaning of Christmas. My wife and I have had the similar situation as far as homeschooling/Public schools goes. We've just said, "well put that off till we get there".
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Old December 21st, 2007, 09:15 PM   #7
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To me the important thing is the spirit of Santa. The giving and the warmth you get from the giving.
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Old December 21st, 2007, 09:38 PM   #8
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Raised Christian my whole life.
Church, Sunday school, Chr. schools, the whole bit.
Put milk/cookies on the table Christmas eve.
Dad would leave crumbs and empty glass for us to find in A.M.
Dad always dressed as santa on Christmas morning.
Always taught the real meaning of christmas.
Let kids Have a fantasy that kids can relate to.
All kids grow out of it, it's part of being a kid.
Not anti Christian at all.
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Old December 21st, 2007, 09:49 PM   #9
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I never lied to my kids about the Santa god, because I figured it was to important for them to trust me when I told them the truth about Jesus.
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Old December 21st, 2007, 09:55 PM   #10
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My parents are very religious. They let us believe in Santa but didn't really do much to push it. Just a few presents were labeled "from Santa". I don't remember ever completely believing in Santa. They always taught the "true meaning of Christmas"

I'm not particularly religious but did about the same with my kids.
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Old December 21st, 2007, 10:05 PM   #11
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I believe you have to celebrate the thought and meaning behind Santa. Since you can not give a physical gift to Jesus, you give one to his (Jesus) sinners, in the thought of Jesus.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 07:16 AM   #12
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why would you marry someone with such a strong difference in beliefs centered around something that happens every year?
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 08:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY View Post
why would you marry someone with such a strong difference in beliefs centered around something that happens every year?
i'm going to jump in and answer this for him... i'm thinking...LOVE.

i have a similar situation, i am madly in love with a girl who shares completely opposite ideas to mine in terms of religion, but i am in love with her and we will make it work. don't worry, we've talked about it.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 09:01 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbfin88 View Post
I never lied to my kids about the Santa god, because I figured it was to important for them to trust me when I told them the truth about Jesus.
I was raised with Santa till I figured out that is was a fake about 7 years old.
My wife and I have chose to raise our kids (9,7 and 5) without the belief in Santa but teach them about the good that Saint Nic did in Jesus's name and that we should do the same. We give gift to our kids. Without Santa I don't have to come up with lies over and over this time of year. Sorry but a lie is lie even if it's to protect some one or other reasons.
The only hard part at first with the kids was reminding them when going to school (non-christian) not to let the other kids know Santa wasn't real. We told are kids that is up to the kids parents and that's the way I really feel about it too. I don't care if people do the Santa thing but I just don't want to go thru the lies every December.

God Bless and don't forget to say "MERRY CHRISTMAS" not "Happy Holidays".
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 09:36 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY View Post
why would you marry someone with such a strong difference in beliefs centered around something that happens every year?
Well.. honestly.. in the big scheme of things (life) this is one of the few differences we have.. I know (and am sure you do) people who have differences of opinion on stuff that happens every month... every week... so, this is a small issue in the big picture -- we see eye to eye on more things then most other couples we know, so thats good..

and, to stress my main point here, I'm not heartbroken that she dosn't want our kids to follow my childhood traditions vs. her's... I just don't want my kid being the only one in school who's not following the tradition (or vise versa)... like I said, in my school back in NJ, 100% of us did the Santa thing.. a non-Santa kid would have been really uncomfortable...

All the replies I've gotten so far have been helpful. I am most surprised at All5ofus's answer.. I really didn't think someone would be able to get their kids to know Santa is fake and then go to school and keep it to themselves..

Thanks for all the replies gang...
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 09:37 AM   #16
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I was raised with santa, didn't like when I found out I was lied to. I have hated non-truths ever since. I won't lie to my kids and tell them about some fake entity that replaces Jesus Christ, whom the season is meant to recognize and celebrate.

Your woman is right man, you should go with what she is saying on this.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 03:22 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
I was raised with santa, didn't like when I found out I was lied to. I have hated non-truths ever since. I won't lie to my kids and tell them about some fake entity that replaces Jesus Christ, whom the season is meant to recognize and celebrate.

Your woman is right man, you should go with what she is saying on this.
Wow there is a lot of Irony here...

Santa is fake? Why because you haven't seen him? Is it because you took it too literally and didn't understand who/what Santa is? Seriously there are books about him, you should read them and then when you have questions go to the mall and talk to him.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 09:20 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor Slut View Post
Wow there is a lot of Irony here...

Santa is fake? Why because you haven't seen him? Is it because you took it too literally and didn't understand who/what Santa is? Seriously there are books about him, you should read them and then when you have questions go to the mall and talk to him.
Damn you are good. St. Nick was a very inspirational person that help people that weren't as fortunate. Now others want to slander his name because they didn't get Bumblebee or Storm Shadow when they were a child. He was a real person just like this Jesus guy others keep blabbing about.
Talk about being hypocrites and not understanding history.
Go Santa!!
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 10:10 PM   #19
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Look how much Santa hurt the world:

http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?t=71239

I don't see Jesus there passing out crackers and grape juice
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 10:23 PM   #20
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I wasn't raised with Santa....but he DID live down the street from us. He used to kidnap the niehbor's dogs to use on his sliegh. I never told on him because he would give me Pall-Malls and warm Schlitz to shut me up. Back in '74, he tried to use a chopped van to deliver the toys, but that made him look, well, kinda stupid. So he quit. I think he left and opened an Orange Julius down south somewhere. So, whoever you're getting your stuff from now, I don't think he's real. Trust me on this one.
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