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Old December 21st, 2007, 08:23 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by K&J's Dad View Post
It's called evolution. Started with a single microbe. Conditions were right on this planet and not others. This is why we have life and the other planets do not.
Scared of what you? All your questions? That's all you have are questions; no answers. You try to answer everything with, "god did it". This is your crutch through life.
I also rescind that Jesus was a carpenter. Now there is evidence that he wasn't. Scholars can't even translate the word "tekton" in greek. Some say carpenter, others say laborer. So maybe Jesus was merely someone who worked with his hands. This would have made him the lowest of the peasant.
If they have trouble translating this word, how many other word are wrong creating a false story or meaning?

Why does there have to meaning to our lives? Is there a meaning as to why my dog is here? Or the pines in my backyard? Not really. The strong survive, and weak die off. Simple as that.

You quote from a fictional book and so will I:
"I've met God across his long walnut desk with his diplomas hanging on the wall behind him, and God asks me, "Why?" Why did I cause so much pain? Didn't I realize that each of us is a sacred, unique snowflake of special unique specialness? Can't I see how we're all manifestations of love? I look at God behind his desk, taking notes on a pad, but God's got this all wrong. We are not special. We are not crap or trash, either. We just are. We just are, and what happens just happens. And God says, "No, that's not right." Yeah. Well. Whatever. You can't teach God anything."
"You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile." ~Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club
Every time this comes up you start talking about a book of fiction. Where did you come up with that idea? As I am sure you know the Romans that killed off most of the apostles (or at tried) keep records that agree with the bible.
I find it funny that people will believe things about something but will not even open there minds to the same thing being said form a source that they are scared of.

God bless
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Old December 21st, 2007, 08:36 PM   #42
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It sounds like your life should suck. Dave and I just believe in a hope, a brighter future..so on, so forth. I would say that Dave has alot of Answers, People like you just don't want to listen because of what you think you know. He asks very pertinent Questions that you always seem to dodge wit either sarcasim or a quote from some random book about Faith and how ridiculous it is.

<Droid voice> The bible is a Fictional book that Is not based in fact at all. I base this on assumptions that are somewhat shaky and don't actually do any research on the subject</Droid Voice> We get it. Do some research and Post it up on this board, I will do the same. I bet one of us will be dissapointed. .


.




.


Awaiting some witty/sarcasitic reason you don't need to do research....
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Old December 21st, 2007, 09:13 PM   #43
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My life doesn't suck. I live life for me and not a pretend god. I have a beautiful wife, two healthy kids, a job I like, a loving family. How does this suck? Because I don't believe in an imaginary thing that you pray to?? To me your life must suck because you are always worried about your god and if you did something wrong. I do right because it makes me and others happy, not because I am scared of going to hell.

There are places and events that did occur that are in the bible and some that didn't. This makes portions fictional. I will take back my statement that the entire thing is fictional. I probably know more about christianity than a lot of christians. I was raised in a mixed religion household. My father was raised catholic and my mother lutheran. I went to both churches as a child and teen. Even as a kid I knew this was all a bunch of wishy-washy stories to get you give more money. It was like herding sheep. The pastor/preacher would say to do something and everyone would follow.
I do research religion to understand why you believe what you do. The more I read the more I believe there is no god. All the "facts" that christians report aren't facts but interpretations of events. The more I research scientific evidence the more I believe there is no god. Science is fact on how things occured. You choose not to trust these facts and rely on stories instead. I just don't understand why you put so much into fearing something that you've never encountered. To me this is the same as aliens or leprechauns or Santa Claus.

The reason I am sarcastic is because I don't take this so seriously. I find it funny that the religious ones are the ones that are so serious about it. Life isn't this serious. At least to me it isn't. It needs to be enjoyed and not stressed over so hard. I guess that is the difference between us. You constantly fear your god and must stress to always do right. I can just relax and enjoy my life. I don't have the need to rush to the board and post something and if someone doesn't reply back in 10 minutes question if they are scared. I do like reading your posts and am learning a great deal about how hardcore you are about your religion. Most of the non-religious people have short posts and go about their day without having to defend themselves. We don't start most posts either. It is always the christians that need to start a post to ruffle some feathers.

Last edited by K&J's Dad; December 21st, 2007 at 09:23 PM.
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Old December 21st, 2007, 09:48 PM   #44
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[QUOTE=K&J's Dad;868462]My life doesn't suck. I live life for me and not a pretend god. I have a beautiful wife, two healthy kids, a job I like, a loving family. How does this suck? Because I don't believe in an imaginary thing that you pray to?? To me your life must suck because you are always worried about your god and if you did something wrong. I do right because it makes me and others happy, not because I am scared of going to hell.





That statement should be enough for you to believe.
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Old December 21st, 2007, 10:01 PM   #45
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Did you ever notice that the biggest opponents of Christianity are the ones who have the least factual knowledge? They keep saying things they think are true without backing them up with proof. Jesus = tooth fairy? Come on, really!
I used to call myself an atheist, and I know that deep down you don't really believe the things you're saying, but it's mostly a smoke screen to mask other issues in your life.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 07:01 AM   #46
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"That statement should be enough for you to believe." - jdrl

I know too many christians with ugly wives and unhealthy kids. Believing has nothing to do with this. She finds me attractive so I have an attractive wife. Genetics made my kids healthy.

"Jesus = tooth fairy? Come on, really!" - lbfin88

I said god = tooth fairy, not jesus. At least get YOUR facts straight. You are so brainwashed you can't even see the logic in the statement.

"I know that deep down you don't really believe the things you're saying, but it's mostly a smoke screen to mask other issues in your life." - lbfin88
You answered it pretty clear yourself; you don't know anything because I really DO believe there is no god. I don't have issues. Didn't you read my post. I have a beautiful wife, two healthy kids, a job I like, a nice house, a loving family, plenty of toys, and wonderful friends. Sounds like I have issues!
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 08:23 AM   #47
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I'm sure the Egyptians, the Aztecs, etc all thought their gods were real too... They couldn't explain the sun, so they made a Sun God. They couldn't understand the rain, so they made a rain god. It has been that way for centuries. People that can't explain something make up fantastic stories of Gods that made these events take place. The more I study and learn, the more I realize that religion is just a way of circumventing the process of learning about the world around you.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 08:38 AM   #48
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Amen, Dave. All of the others just haven't reached the point of understanding what you do: we all need God!
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 08:44 AM   #49
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[QUOTE=JDRL;868510]
Quote:
Originally Posted by K&J's Dad View Post
My life doesn't suck. I live life for me and not a pretend god. I have a beautiful wife, two healthy kids, a job I like, a loving family. How does this suck? Because I don't believe in an imaginary thing that you pray to?? To me your life must suck because you are always worried about your god and if you did something wrong. I do right because it makes me and others happy, not because I am scared of going to hell.





That statement should be enough for you to believe.
jdrl
hahah, yes K&J's Dad, you probably aren't capable of landing a hot wife and making healthy kids on your own, God did it for you. you better thank him by giving an extra 20$ in the collection plate.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 08:53 AM   #50
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[QUOTE=84Scrambler;868795]They couldn't understand the rain, so they made a rain god. It has been that way for centuries. People that can't explain something make up fantastic stories of Gods that made these events take place. [QUOTE]

Exactly. Future generations and societies find that these gods are not real because we can scientifically explain why there is no rain god, sun god, etc. This has been true with all of the gods of previous religions, Aztecs, Mayans, Greeks, Romans, etc.. They don't have the answer or believe the answer so they create a god to take the place of not knowing. When science does find an answer they try to say that science is wrong because they already have the answer. Great scientist were persecuted for proving religion wrong. See - Sir Isaac Newton, Galileo, da Vinci, etc. They knew religion's explanations were false with no backing. The world isn't flat, there is gravity, there are other planets and stars beyond the Earth and the sun, .....
Science will slowly learn more and more and prove religion wrong. Look at test tube babies and stem cell research. We can learn to create beyond what nature had intended. We can cause an evolution in a new manner. Why wait to adapt when we can create better humans and animals.

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Old December 22nd, 2007, 08:57 AM   #51
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[QUOTE=mikesova;868823]
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hahah, yes K&J's Dad, you probably aren't capable of landing a hot wife and making healthy kids on your own, God did it for you. you better thank him by giving an extra 20$ in the collection plate.
Then god must hate a lot of people because I sure do see a lot of trailer parks and fat ass people. They must not be praying hard enough.
:tonka::tonka:
I'll have my dad slip a fifty into the plate on Xmas eve for me. You know for all the ugly people. Maybe this will buy them botox or Jenni Craig since god didn't do anything for them.


As far as people with good looks and being healthy. It's called the gene pool lottery and most people dont win.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 09:58 AM   #52
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^^^ See, that's were I agree with you that those people (the Fatass ones) Are too lazy to get thier lifes together. God hasn't punished them or not Blessed them. They simply haven't gone and persued thier lifes.

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The reason I am sarcastic is because I don't take this so seriously. I find it funny that the religious ones are the ones that are so serious about it. Life isn't this serious. At least to me it isn't. It needs to be enjoyed and not stressed over so hard. I guess that is the difference between us. You constantly fear your god and must stress to always do right. I can just relax and enjoy my life.
I fear my God, but not because I fear hell. My Life is more relaxed when I'm in the will of God. I don't have to worry about alot of things because I know he will provide. Alot of Christians Do become Christian out of the fear of hell and It bothers the Piss out of me that so many groups use that scare tactic to "increase Numbers" It's not about fear, it's about a Relationship with Jesus/God.

I find it funny that you think that Catholic And Luthren are different Religions. They aren't. They are different Denominations of one single religion - Christianity. Do the Catholics and Luthrens have different tradtions, Ideas, Interpratations? YES. It's a Common Misconception. I had a Kid on my bus say that He's not a Christian But he's a Methodist. That kracked me up. Unfortunatly I couldn't say anything beecause I'm a School Employee. Darn that whole PC thing.

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Did you ever notice that the biggest opponents of Christianity are the ones who have the least factual knowledge? They keep saying things they think are true without backing them up with proof. Jesus = tooth fairy? Come on, really!
I used to call myself an atheist, and I know that deep down you don't really believe the things you're saying, but it's mostly a smoke screen to mask other issues in your life.
Yesterday 10:48 PM
OK, so I've referenced this many times in other posts. But the Base science beliefs are no different then christian Ones. In order for it ot be scientific Fact it has to be Proveable. The big bang, Old earth, all those theorys are just Theorys, nothing more. They are Educated Guesses using stuff we have right now to explain things that happened a really long time ago. You have just at little Factual Evidence in those cases as Christianity. INtill you can go back in time and see for yourself how this world was started, you have no ground to say that it is fact that this or that actually happened. I took a Astonomy Class and the teacher (non-christian, Probably agnostic) Said that this is all guesses from what we know now.

It's no different for MACRO evoultion either. There are Just assumptoins based on what he have now. If, some day, the human race jumps to some different kind of Being then I'll belief in MACRO evoultion. I do, however, Belief in MCIRO Evoultion. WHich is basically that different breeds of bird/Dog/Cats...ETC come from the breeding and adatptaion of that same Species. I belief in that becasue Darwin proved that right with his Intial Theory.

Whew...Done.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 09:05 PM   #53
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I find it funny that you think that Catholic And Luthren are different Religions. They aren't. They are different Denominations of one single religion - Christianity.

It's no different for MACRO evoultion either. There are Just assumptoins based on what he have now. If, some day, the human race jumps to some different kind of Being then I'll belief in MACRO evoultion. I do, however, Belief in MCIRO Evoultion. WHich is basically that different breeds of bird/Dog/Cats...ETC come from the breeding and adatptaion of that same Species. I belief in that becasue Darwin proved that right with his Intial Theory.
I know they are both christian. But they have their differences. Both in the way they are taught, followed, ect. My only point was that I had learned christian ideals from two different perspectives and still don't buy into it.

Macro evolution does occur and can be see in species that have much shorter life spans. The tsetse fly is a prime example because of its short life cycle (three months). Scientist have studied this species of fly over a short period but have been able to see evolutionary changes. Four species of tsetse fly were found in Colorado and are belived to be 26-38 million years old. Talk about adapting to their environment.
The flu virus is another example. It mutates every year. The flu shot you get this year is last year's strain. This is why it won't go away. It uses evolution to adapt and morph.
How does religion describe disease and sickness? How does it describe the way it mutates?

You are also right about the big bang theory. It is only a theory, but is based on scientific findings that can support a theory like this. It will always remain a theory because we can't go back in time. Just like we don't really know what a T-Rex really looked like because all we have are bones. But with an educated gues based on dna finding we can create a theory that is statistacally as close as can be. God just creating things has no scientific evidence. It isn't even a theory because there is no backing. It is just a guess, not an educated guess.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 09:26 PM   #54
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You are also right about the big bang theory. It is only a theory, but is based on scientific findings that can support a theory like this. It will always remain a theory because we can't go back in time. Just like we don't really know what a T-Rex really looked like because all we have are bones. But with an educated gues based on dna finding we can create a theory that is statistacally as close as can be. God just creating things has no scientific evidence. It isn't even a theory because there is no backing. It is just a guess, not an educated guess.
Ya ever heard of Kent Hovind? I know alot of people find his scientific proof to be Bogus, but he makes some good points. One being the proof of a Great Flood. It's interesting. I agree that My believing God created everything is not Backed specifically on a Scientific background. I'm fine with that. I just don't like people that say that those types of things (the big bang...ETC..) are Fact. I see that as brainwashing. My faith is based on both Fact, Theory and Good Ole' Blind Faith. It's how I work, And what you do is how you work.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 09:45 PM   #55
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Ya ever heard of Kent Hovind? I know alot of people find his scientific proof to be Bogus, but he makes some good points. One being the proof of a Great Flood. It's interesting. I agree that My believing God created everything is not Backed specifically on a Scientific background. I'm fine with that. I just don't like people that say that those types of things (the big bang...ETC..) are Fact. I see that as brainwashing. My faith is based on both Fact, Theory and Good Ole' Blind Faith. It's how I work, And what you do is how you work.
No I have never heard of him but will google him later to find out more.
I agree with you about people that claim the big bang as fact. It isn't.
Finally someone that admits that there is some "Good Ole' Blind Faith" to religion.
We work differently and that is ok. I hold nothing against you because you believe differently and have an open mind to discuss and also to listen. I may poke some fun, but I don't mean to truely be rude. You have had many interesting posts. I don't agree with 99% of what you post, but it are interesting.
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Old December 22nd, 2007, 11:53 PM   #56
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I think u missed the point here I was not talking about your luck in having a hot wife or wonderful kids; I was more speaking from the heart. You canít tell me that when you look in to your wifeís eyes or see you kids smile u donít feel a love for them that is greater than just "Genetics".


Itís disappointing that you take the defense right away I was not thinking about or referring to ďugly wives and unhealthy kidsĒ but more about the way the ones you love make you feel.


god bless
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 07:49 AM   #57
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I love the Christian idea that there had to be some higher devine being that created us. My question is who created the higher, devine being, and who created their creator, and who created their creator, and so on. It is just like comprehending the size of the universe. It is unending and we as humans can't really comprehend something that we can't put boundaries around. Christians believe this idea that in the beginning there was nothing and then suddenly God said let there be light. If there was nothing, there was no god to say anything, thus no let there be light. I disagree with Christianity from the very first page of the bible. Sometimes you just have to admit you don't have a clue and you can't explain everything with fantasy stories.
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 08:51 AM   #58
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I love the Christian idea that there had to be some higher devine being that created us. My question is who created the higher, devine being, and who created their creator, and who created their creator, and so on. It is just like comprehending the size of the universe. It is unending and we as humans can't really comprehend something that we can't put boundaries around. Christians believe this idea that in the beginning there was nothing and then suddenly God said let there be light. If there was nothing, there was no god to say anything, thus no let there be light. I disagree with Christianity from the very first page of the bible. Sometimes you just have to admit you don't have a clue and you can't explain everything with fantasy stories.
Ok, well if you are so smug in the fact that we don't know were God Came from, were'd the matter that was just there at the begining of the universe come from? or if you have an answer to that, Were'd that come from? You have as little proof of the big bang and the origins of the earth/universe that Christians Do. You have to just think there was something. Because you can't get something from nothing. Now, what happened after that is up to the Person.

I believe that God was always there and mindfully created this earth and the universe to Glorify his name and created us to worship him. You believe that we came to being because of random particles and boom, there is the universe. And BTW, most of those stories are either fables, or they are truth. Alot of them are based historically in time. I'm not sure were I stand on the Creation story from Genesis yet, but I know that it's better then "we came from goo" JMO.

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I may poke some fun, but I don't mean to truely be rude. You have had many interesting posts. I don't agree with 99% of what you post, but it are interesting.
x2....Maybe more like 85% for me though.
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 12:05 PM   #59
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I'm sure the Egyptians, the Aztecs, etc all thought their gods were real too... They couldn't explain the sun, so they made a Sun God. They couldn't understand the rain, so they made a rain god. It has been that way for centuries. People that can't explain something make up fantastic stories of Gods that made these events take place. The more I study and learn, the more I realize that religion is just a way of circumventing the process of learning about the world around you.
Yes, you are correct, many religions are started from fables handed down by word of mouth from generation to generation. But it's not so with Christianity. Our present day calendar reflects the birth of Christ give or take a year for error. B.C. is before Christ, while A.D.(Latin for Anno Domini meaning in the year of our Lord) starts about the time of His birth. He was crucified at about 33 A.D. and all the books of the New Testament were completed before 100 A.D. . Hardly enough time for fables to grow, besides the fact that there were many witnesses still alive that could have disputed inaccurate texts. There are more surviving copies (MSS) of the New Testament than there are of Homer's Iliad.
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Old December 23rd, 2007, 06:25 PM   #60
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1. Scared of what you? All your questions? That's all you have are questions; no answers. You try to answer everything with, "god did it". This is your crutch through life.

2. I also rescind that Jesus was a carpenter. Now there is evidence that he wasn't. Scholars can't even translate the word "tekton" in greek. Some say carpenter, others say laborer. So maybe Jesus was merely someone who worked with his hands. This would have made him the lowest of the peasant.
If they have trouble translating this word, how many other word are wrong creating a false story or meaning?
1. I know you are scared, but it is not of me. You are scared to answer my specific, and repeated, questions about Jesus. And the reason why is because you know that the answer is not on your side, and that it will require you to either BS me or acknowledge that reality of the truth of Jesus Christ. And neither option is desirable, so you retreat.


2. Actually, the Greek word tektōn means the following:

A) a worker in wood, a carpenter, joiner, builder
B) any craftsman, or workman

The two times in the scripture when this word is used is when people demeaned Jesus, asking if he was only that carpenter's son. In other words, they were attempting to discredit his miracles by saying only that his humble means would not allow such wonders to occur. Remember, the Jews were looking for the Messiah to be one that would come with an earthly throne, with greater early power. They didn't want to follow some lowly carpenter. The bottom line is this: There is no dispute on what tektōn means, even if he was not specifically a carpenter, he would have been a craftsman of some other kind, but neither of which was kingly. Your accusation against the textual accuracy of the Bible does not hold water. Nice try though.
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