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Old December 12th, 2007, 01:46 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
I am still trying to figure out why Pullman, an atheist, is trying to kill a god that he thinks does not exist.
Very good point!!
I agree though too, its just a damn movie. I think its actually pretty funny when the "Catholic Church" gets their nuts in a knot over shit like this.
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Old December 12th, 2007, 01:53 PM   #42
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Very good point!!
I agree though too, its just a damn movie. I think its actually pretty funny when the "Catholic Church" gets their nuts in a knot over shit like this.
what's even funnier is that when the news stations put Bill Donahue on to speak about something and act like he's not a complete nutjob...

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Old December 12th, 2007, 02:01 PM   #43
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Gotta love the Catholic "the world was still flat until the 1970's" Church. :tonka:
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Old December 12th, 2007, 02:21 PM   #44
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This is not a Catholic issue, but thanks for reading my first post.
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Old December 12th, 2007, 03:09 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by amc78cj7 View Post
This is not a Catholic issue, but thanks for reading my first post.
What right is it of yours to tell people whats fit to read?

Should I tell you not to read that fictional story known as the bible?



You make a good little soldier trying to force the world to conform to your narrow beliefs.
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Old December 12th, 2007, 03:30 PM   #46
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Just go to see Nicole Kidman and give her your money. Some woman's gonna end up with it anyway, she might as well get some of it.
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Old December 12th, 2007, 03:46 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
What right is it of yours to tell people whats fit to read?

Should I tell you not to read that fictional story known as the bible?


I will recommend to you 'Haggar what I am recommending to these parents then. Read the book (bible) first then decide if it is fit.
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Old December 12th, 2007, 03:49 PM   #48
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yes, avoid it at all costs.

because putting your head in the sand will just make it go away. ;)


OP, I understand your concern, and I thank you for the encouragement to read the books. Without knowledge, faith means nothing. However, encouraging people to avoid it entirely goes against the premise that you set, when you told parents to read the books before they went to the movie.

I read the books, I saw the movie and you know what.....I'm still just as much a passionate follower of Christ as I was before. :) I'm glad I did read/watch because i was able to formulate my own ideas, and how they fit scripturally. I may use them in a new message series, same as I did the DaVinci code. I was entertained, and because of the writer's views, I chuckled a little as I saw his ideals come out in his writtings. I wasn't discouraged, or felt the need to rally to the cause of burning this "witch" down.

My wife and I had a great discussion, and now, when I have kids in my youth group go to see it, they are able to ask some great questions.

Remember, in the great "questions" of life, lies the truth. For me, the questions led me to a deeper understanding of how Christ impacted my life. For others, it turns them away. Its up to Christians living an authentic, Christ-centered life, to show an example of what God can do when we let him. :)
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Old December 12th, 2007, 04:01 PM   #49
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I will recommend to you 'Haggar what I am recommending to these parents then. Read the book (bible) first then decide if it is fit.
I've read the bible, several times.

It still goes back to, for some reason, "the Church" thinks they know better than you what you should and shouldn't do.

Do they think you are stupid? You can't think for yourself? You must be told what to do?


These is the same group that didn't want printing presses, that didn't want commoners to know how to read, that didn't want their own works translated out of latin let the sheep actually be able to read it....


Bah bah bahhahhahhhhhh...
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Old December 12th, 2007, 04:12 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by secondechomatt View Post
yes, avoid it at all costs.

because putting your head in the sand will just make it go away. ;)


OP, I understand your concern, and I thank you for the encouragement to read the books. Without knowledge, faith means nothing. However, encouraging people to avoid it entirely goes against the premise that you set, when you told parents to read the books before they went to the movie.

I read the books, I saw the movie and you know what.....I'm still just as much a passionate follower of Christ as I was before. :) I'm glad I did read/watch because i was able to formulate my own ideas, and how they fit scripturally. I may use them in a new message series, same as I did the DaVinci code. I was entertained, and because of the writer's views, I chuckled a little as I saw his ideals come out in his writtings. I wasn't discouraged, or felt the need to rally to the cause of burning this "witch" down.

My wife and I had a great discussion, and now, when I have kids in my youth group go to see it, they are able to ask some great questions.

Remember, in the great "questions" of life, lies the truth. For me, the questions led me to a deeper understanding of how Christ impacted my life. For others, it turns them away. Its up to Christians living an authentic, Christ-centered life, to show an example of what God can do when we let him. :)
Secondechomatt: The point, which it appears you got, is to have a dialog with the youth before they see the movie.

'Haggar: I currently don't belong to any church / denomination. The plot of this story is still easy to see and if I hadn't studied the bible I may not have known how greatly it twists the stories of Genesis.
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Old December 12th, 2007, 04:16 PM   #51
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I want a new compass for christmas.
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Old December 12th, 2007, 04:35 PM   #52
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I want a new compass for christmas.
Come on Stan . . . get with the NOW, I'll get you a golden GPS if you'd like
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Old December 12th, 2007, 05:49 PM   #53
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I want a new compass for christmas.
Golden compass

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Old December 12th, 2007, 07:36 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
I've read the bible, several times.

It still goes back to, for some reason, "the Church" thinks they know better than you what you should and shouldn't do.

Do they think you are stupid? You can't think for yourself? You must be told what to do?


These is the same group that didn't want printing presses, that didn't want commoners to know how to read, that didn't want their own works translated out of latin let the sheep actually be able to read it....


Bah bah bahhahhahhhhhh...
:chiefwoohaw: Shut up. You're not the first to bring up the Past of the church, you won't be the last. I admit that we've done horrible things, but that was the past. How bout all the Good that has happened because of Christians Worldwide. So yeah.....Shut up.

As far as the movie, There is a boycott because this movie is a confessed attack on God. The guy said it him self. I will go see it after it comes out on DVD. I figure If I watch it I can see were things may be sketchy and Make the decision for my self if I want my kids to see it. I'm glad, however, to see it sucked it up in the box office when it came out. Not because of the message, but beacuse I enjoy seeing movies that are supposed to be so great suck it up. Go watch it, If you believe in God realize that Satan has lost and it's a weak attempt to get back at GOD.
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Old December 12th, 2007, 11:40 PM   #55
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I think what bugs me most about the movie is that unless people spoke out about it you very well may not even know what you were exposing yourself and children too. Personally, Our family won't watch it because I'm going to choose to censor them, that's my job as a dad and a follower. If you choose to go watch at least people like Jeff have allowed you to know what's going on in it and the message behind it. The whole thing feels very tricky to me....

Oh and for those of you who think there's no problem being around it then think of it like this. It's easy to not eat your favorite fattening snack if it's not around. But put a bowl of whatever it is in everyroom in your house, in you office and in your car and it's not nearly as easy.... If it's bad for you why bother exposing yourself to it?

By the way, thanks Jeff for the direct quotes.
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Old December 13th, 2007, 11:44 AM   #56
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If it's bad for you why bother exposing yourself to it?
Because if it is bad for you it must be good. This is why I surround myself with strippers and beer.
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Old December 13th, 2007, 06:08 PM   #57
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Athiests don't believe in God. In this story God must be defeated so that sin can rule.
Well put -- like most who are unhappy with the truth, they have too have it both ways to make it real for them
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Old December 13th, 2007, 06:10 PM   #58
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Just go to see Nicole Kidman and give her your money. Some woman's gonna end up with it anyway, she might as well get some of it.
Now that is funny (true too)
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Old December 13th, 2007, 09:47 PM   #59
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Just the text from the 2nd and 3rd books (movies coming). You decide if it''s appropriate for your kids.

Book 2: The Subtle Knife, page 319:

"Listen", said the man , sitting up with a struggle. "Don't interrupt. If you're the bearer of the knife, you have a task that's greater than you can imagine. A Child...How could they let it happen? Well, so it must be....There is a war coming, boy. The greatest war there ever was. Something like it happened before, and this time the right side must win. We've had nothing but lies and propaganda and cruelty and deceit for all the thousands of years of human history. It's time we started again, but properly this time...."

He stopped to take in several rattling breaths.

"The knife", he went on after a minute. "They never knew what they were making, those old philosophers. They invented a device that could split open the very smallest particles of matter, and they used it to steal candy. They had no idea that they'd made the one weapon in all the universe that could defeat the tyrant. The Authority. God. The rebel angels fell because they didn't have anything like the knife; but now...."

Book 3 The Amber Spyglass, page 31

Balthamos said quietly, "The Authority, God, the Creator, the Lord, Yahweh, El, Adonai, the King, the Father, the Almighty - those were all names he gave himself. He was never the creator. He was an angel like ourselves - the first angel, true, the most powerful, but he was formed of Dust as we are, and Dust is only a name for what happens when matter begins to understand itself."


Book 3 The Amber Spyglass, page 224, referring to the Garden of Eden in a parallel universe and how the introduction of sin helped free them from being livestock

"She had no name before then. She saw a snake coiling itself through the hole in a seedpod, and the snake said -"

"The Snake spoke to her?"

"No, No! It is a make-like. The story tells that the snake said 'What do you know? What do you remember? What do you see ahead?' And she said 'Nothing, nothing, nothing.' So the snake said 'Put your foot through the hole in the seedpod where I was playing, and you will become wise.' So she put a foot in where the snake had been. And the oil entered her blood and helped her see more clearly than before, and the first thing she saw was the sraf (dust, sin). It was so strange and pleasant that she wanted to share it at once with her kindred. So she and her mate took the seedpods, and they discovered they know who they were, they knew they were mulefa and not grazers. They gave each other names."

Book 3 The Amber Spyglass, page 518

"On the beach, just before you tried the alethiometer. He said there wasn't any elsewhere. It was what his father had told you. But there was something else."

"I remember. He meant the Kingdom was over, the Kingdom of Heaven, it was all finished. We shouldn't live as if it mattered more than this life in this world, because where we are is always the most important place."

"He said we had to build something..."

"The Republic of Heaven," said Lyra.

"The End."
Question: Why are you taking something that is clearly meant as a fantastical tale, and twisting it to be anti-god? By the very definition of the genre, it is a completely fictional world, usually where the general order of things is completely different from our own. Did you ever stop to think that, had 'Satan' won this war of good/evil, that he would have called himself God, and the 'God' he cast down would have been called Satan? Hmm?

Now, I'll grant you, I've not read the books, but I most certainly will make an attempt to read them this weekend, if I can find a copy at the library. However, I'm something of a voracious reader, and I've read quite a lot of fantasy, and I can tell you that this rings true nearly unilaterally across the genre. Yes, in many cases these books discuss apocalyptic battles between good and evil, sometimes between deity's that are good and evil, however that doesn't mean that the author is advocating one opinion or another, merely writing a story meant for entertainment.

The way I see it, if your children are young enough, or naive enough that a clearly fictional, fantastical movie can sway their opinion away from a religious belief, then they are either too young to be seeing this movie, or far to sheltered.
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Old December 13th, 2007, 10:21 PM   #60
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Question: Why are you taking something that is clearly meant as a fantastical tale, and twisting it to be anti-god? By the very definition of the genre, it is a completely fictional world, usually where the general order of things is completely different from our own. Did you ever stop to think that, had 'Satan' won this war of good/evil, that he would have called himself God, and the 'God' he cast down would have been called Satan? Hmm?

Now, I'll grant you, I've not read the books, but I most certainly will make an attempt to read them this weekend, if I can find a copy at the library. However, I'm something of a voracious reader, and I've read quite a lot of fantasy, and I can tell you that this rings true nearly unilaterally across the genre. Yes, in many cases these books discuss apocalyptic battles between good and evil, sometimes between deity's that are good and evil, however that doesn't mean that the author is advocating one opinion or another, merely writing a story meant for entertainment.

The way I see it, if your children are young enough, or naive enough that a clearly fictional, fantastical movie can sway their opinion away from a religious belief, then they are either too young to be seeing this movie, or far to sheltered.
God is referred to as Yahweh in this text. So there is no question of whom he is speaking. While the first book / movie takes place in an alternate universe, the second book takes place in our universe and the story continues that the same struggle between God, sin and the fallen angels took place in all the universes.

Is this fiction....obviously. Does it contain a message that God is evil and Satan was defending mankind......yes. Your question "Did you ever stop to think that, had 'Satan' won this war of good/evil, that he would have called himself God, and the 'God' he cast down would have been called Satan? Hmm?" and "I've read quite a lot of fantasy, and I can tell you that this rings true nearly unilaterally across the genre." is a perfect example of my concern that such messages can mislead individuals. Thank you for that example.
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