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Old December 13th, 2007, 08:11 PM   #21
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Great documentary --all the info is out there. Thomas Jefferson was very opposed to a central bank system and is often quoted as such-- for the very reason of corruption and control: "Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws." Amschel Mayer Rothschild, 1773-1855
Doubt 9/11? all I say is WTC Building 7 and the Pentagon video (or lack thereof) it just can't logically be explaned (IMO)
Stop! Just stop right now if you want any of these people to be your friends.

If you don't then I'll be your friend
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Old December 13th, 2007, 09:25 PM   #22
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All I need is one good friend
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Old December 13th, 2007, 11:30 PM   #23
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All I need is one good friend
First they will tell you that you are an idiot. After they are done with that they will tell you that a demolition team (probably same one used in the other WTC buildings) ran into WTC7 and imploded it because it was not safe and "also had to be taken down"

Now I've watched many demolitions and I know that it takes time to set them up but the "super government" team could do it in a matter of hours. That they say is my flawed logic in thinking that no way they could do it in a matter of hours. IMOP it was set up way in advance just like my logic tells me that the imploding of the WTC was set up way in advance

And yes I love and fell that it is my duty to question my leaders and not be one of their sheep
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Old December 14th, 2007, 12:34 AM   #24
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Here you go:

http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_.../appendixl.pdf

52 pages of facts and figures telling you why WTC7 collapsed.
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Old December 14th, 2007, 07:50 AM   #25
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Here you go:

http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_.../appendixl.pdf

52 pages of facts and figures telling you why WTC7 collapsed.
Wow your kidding right--I mean you read it first before passing this to the GL public. They mention over and over "column failure" and aside from fire (not nearly hot enough or enough of it) they don't explain the failure. Never in the history of steel core structure building construction has there ever been a total collapse within a buildings own footprint due to fire. Firehouse Engineer Magazine Nov. 2001 other examples:
http://www.iklimnet.com/hotelfires/interstatebank.html
http://www.sgh.com/expertise/hazards...n/meridian.htm
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in649824.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4263667.stm
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Old December 14th, 2007, 07:52 AM   #26
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First they will tell you that you are an idiot. After they are done with that they will tell you that a demolition team (probably same one used in the other WTC buildings) ran into WTC7 and imploded it because it was not safe and "also had to be taken down"

Now I've watched many demolitions and I know that it takes time to set them up but the "super government" team could do it in a matter of hours. That they say is my flawed logic in thinking that no way they could do it in a matter of hours. IMOP it was set up way in advance just like my logic tells me that the imploding of the WTC was set up way in advance

And yes I love and fell that it is my duty to question my leaders and not be one of their sheep
I'm with ya brother ----------RON PAUL 08
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Old December 14th, 2007, 08:10 AM   #27
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Because I'm bored, I'll ask you this. If the plane did not hit the Pentagon, where is it, and the people on it? Simple question.
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Old December 14th, 2007, 08:54 AM   #28
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Because I'm bored, I'll ask you this. If the plane did not hit the Pentagon, where is it, and the people on it? Simple question.
Please direct those questions to Mr. Bush. We do not know, that is the point.
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Old December 14th, 2007, 09:28 AM   #29
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Because I'm bored, I'll ask you this. If the plane did not hit the Pentagon, where is it, and the people on it? Simple question.
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Please direct those questions to Mr. Bush. We do not know, that is the point.
How can you duck out on this one when you KNOW that WTC 7 was imploded?

Doesn't seem right to be able to say what happened with everything else (re: central bank, 9/11) but then defer the question when it suits you. That's pretty much the same answer we'd get from Mr. Bush. Are you two related?
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Old December 14th, 2007, 09:51 AM   #30
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How can you duck out on this one when you KNOW that WTC 7 was imploded?

Doesn't seem right to be able to say what happened with everything else (re: central bank, 9/11) but then defer the question when it suits you. That's pretty much the same answer we'd get from Mr. Bush. Are you two related?
I don't have the ability to do the research. I work and really don't care to do the work, ie not a 9/11 fanatic. Do I believe them, NO. Do I think that someone out there, possibly a 9/11 fanatic, is doing research with a passion to make up for my apathy and right this injustice, YES!!
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Old December 14th, 2007, 09:55 AM   #31
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I believe that the part about the fed is dead on!!


and also I believe that 911 is a conspiracy just incase you didn't know

How can 911 be a conspiracy? Every time i call, they send an ambulance, they sound pretty real on the phone!
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Old December 14th, 2007, 03:17 PM   #32
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I don't have the ability to do the research. I work and really don't care to do the work, ie not a 9/11 fanatic. Do I believe them, NO. Do I think that someone out there, possibly a 9/11 fanatic, is doing research with a passion to make up for my apathy and right this injustice, YES!!
So long as you believe that someone else will do it for you the world will be a better place for your efforts.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your answer as to how it pertains to the question.
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Old December 14th, 2007, 03:17 PM   #33
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How can 911 be a conspiracy? Every time i call, they send an ambulance, they sound pretty real on the phone!
I still can't find the "11" button! :tonka:
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Old December 14th, 2007, 05:20 PM   #34
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So long as you believe that someone else will do it for you the world will be a better place for your efforts.

I'm sorry, I don't understand your answer as to how it pertains to the question.
Just crusading for the truth but not looking for the answer . . . does that help. I'm too busy crusin GL4x4 to search for the answer
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Old December 14th, 2007, 09:38 PM   #35
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Wow your kidding right--I mean you read it first before passing this to the GL public. They mention over and over "column failure" and aside from fire (not nearly hot enough or enough of it) they don't explain the failure. Never in the history of steel core structure building construction has there ever been a total collapse within a buildings own footprint due to fire. Firehouse Engineer Magazine Nov. 2001 other examples:
http://www.iklimnet.com/hotelfires/interstatebank.html
http://www.sgh.com/expertise/hazards...n/meridian.htm
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in649824.shtml
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4263667.stm
Can't say I read every page but I read enough to know it's believable.
I read enough to know that fire alone may not have brought the building down, but that it may have been significantly damaged by the collapse of the other WTC buildings. I read enough to know that there was 24,000 gallons of diesel fuel in that building, and that diesel burns at around 2000C and that test have shown that the yield point of the beams in that building was around 600C. I read enough to know that the fire protection on the beams was rated for 2 hours protection but that it burned for as much as 6 hours.

But enough about what I believe... I want to know what you believe...

Do you actually believe:

1. Someone could take 3 very large buildings, which would see in excess of 10,000 people going in and out of on a daily basis, in a very large, busy downtown area, and rig them with explosives, a job that would take hundred of workers, months of planning, weeks of on site preparations requiring removal of much of the interior to access the structural beams, and no one would notice anything suspicious?

2. Those same people could either:
a. find people capable of flying those planes and who were so committed to the cause that they were willing to give up their lives for the effort
or
b. that they could devise, it total secrecy, a remote control system capable of taking off and flying a jet hundreds of miles into a building?

3. That, given the fact that WTC1 & 2 both collapsed starting very close to the point on impact, that either:
a. they planned out exactly what floor the planes were to hit and that those floors rigged
or
b. they had multiple ranges of floors rigged so they could blow the right ones to make it look like a collapse caused by the jet impact.

4. That whichever method above was used, the explosives and what ever system they used to detonate it survived not only a jet impact but the ensuing fire intact enough to be blow later and cause the collapse?

5. That given the hundreds, or more likely thousands of people that it would have taken to pull this off that no one would have blown their cover?
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Old December 14th, 2007, 11:46 PM   #36
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Can't say I read every page but I read enough to know it's believable.
I read enough to know that fire alone may not have brought the building down, but that it may have been significantly damaged by the collapse of the other WTC buildings. I read enough to know that there was 24,000 gallons of diesel fuel in that building, and that diesel burns at around 2000C and that test have shown that the yield point of the beams in that building was around 600C. I read enough to know that the fire protection on the beams was rated for 2 hours protection but that it burned for as much as 6 hours.

But enough about what I believe... I want to know what you believe...

Do you actually believe:

1. Someone could take 3 very large buildings, which would see in excess of 10,000 people going in and out of on a daily basis, in a very large, busy downtown area, and rig them with explosives, a job that would take hundred of workers, months of planning, weeks of on site preparations requiring removal of much of the interior to access the structural beams, and no one would notice anything suspicious?

2. Those same people could either:
a. find people capable of flying those planes and who were so committed to the cause that they were willing to give up their lives for the effort
or
b. that they could devise, it total secrecy, a remote control system capable of taking off and flying a jet hundreds of miles into a building?

3. That, given the fact that WTC1 & 2 both collapsed starting very close to the point on impact, that either:
a. they planned out exactly what floor the planes were to hit and that those floors rigged
or
b. they had multiple ranges of floors rigged so they could blow the right ones to make it look like a collapse caused by the jet impact.

4. That whichever method above was used, the explosives and what ever system they used to detonate it survived not only a jet impact but the ensuing fire intact enough to be blow later and cause the collapse?

5. That given the hundreds, or more likely thousands of people that it would have taken to pull this off that no one would have blown their cover?


i have no idea whats true. from th movie i can see how it would all make sence. then from what th articles say i cam see that too. both side have thier points that are good and also bad, so as said by others i belive the truth lies some whare inbetween.
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Old December 15th, 2007, 01:35 PM   #37
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Can't say I read every page but I read enough to know it's believable.
I read enough to know that fire alone may not have brought the building down, but that it may have been significantly damaged by the collapse of the other WTC buildings. I read enough to know that there was 24,000 gallons of diesel fuel in that building, and that diesel burns at around 2000C and that test have shown that the yield point of the beams in that building was around 600C. I read enough to know that the fire protection on the beams was rated for 2 hours protection but that it burned for as much as 6 hours.

But enough about what I believe... I want to know what you believe...

Do you actually believe:

1. Someone could take 3 very large buildings, which would see in excess of 10,000 people going in and out of on a daily basis, in a very large, busy downtown area, and rig them with explosives, a job that would take hundred of workers, months of planning, weeks of on site preparations requiring removal of much of the interior to access the structural beams, and no one would notice anything suspicious?

2. Those same people could either:
a. find people capable of flying those planes and who were so committed to the cause that they were willing to give up their lives for the effort
or
b. that they could devise, it total secrecy, a remote control system capable of taking off and flying a jet hundreds of miles into a building?

3. That, given the fact that WTC1 & 2 both collapsed starting very close to the point on impact, that either:
a. they planned out exactly what floor the planes were to hit and that those floors rigged
or
b. they had multiple ranges of floors rigged so they could blow the right ones to make it look like a collapse caused by the jet impact.

4. That whichever method above was used, the explosives and what ever system they used to detonate it survived not only a jet impact but the ensuing fire intact enough to be blow later and cause the collapse?

5. That given the hundreds, or more likely thousands of people that it would have taken to pull this off that no one would have blown their cover?
CP1:The fact that, that many people come and go is a great way to go unnoticed and just like with hospitals, they never quit working on those buildings or are constantly remodeling, being there are/ were hundreds of leases in those blds. they were constantly modified. My brother worked, on a fairly regular basis, in and around those bldg. and said he could never remember when crews weren't there working, elevators closed, floors shut down, ect. Would it take alot of time, you bet. The WTC was under attack in 93, they knew it was a target and 9 years is plenty of time to pull this off. Unless I missed it, the diesel wasn't stored on the fire floors, plus it was encased in concrete. With an ignition temp of 497 F plus source, I would love to know how the transfer of heat AND ignition penetrated that in particulate form.
CP2: Planes hit, no doubt-- even Bush admits seeing the FIRST plane hit (no-one else did, but I'm sure he has his souces) Remotes? Sure we know from Future Weapons they exsist--all good
CP3: Any building that is being demolished starts at the top. Planes hit near enough the top to start the implosions like any other planned building fall. You also disregard the free fall speed they came down (i.e. no resistence) not to mention the floors so weakend by jet fuel that it melted structual supports wasn't enough to penetrate human skin, given there are pixs with people hanging out the windows on the same floors
CP4: When your plans is to take down the whole bldg. what difference does it make if some are damaged --I work firework displays in July, believe me there is more than one lead for detonation--this isn't Elmer Fudd blowing up Bugs and all he needs to do is redirect the trail of gun powder
CP5:Planning and time, payoffs and corruption --not to mention the fed is the largest employer in the world--a lot of people? probally a lot less than you think--plus who would believe it, you?
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Old December 15th, 2007, 02:25 PM   #38
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How can you duck out on this one when you KNOW that WTC 7 was imploded?

Doesn't seem right to be able to say what happened with everything else (re: central bank, 9/11) but then defer the question when it suits you. That's pretty much the same answer we'd get from Mr. Bush. Are you two related?
I think Chiefwoohaw was just a little vague, but not much--Bush (icon) would have you believe everything "vaporized", come on! Nothing, not one piece of aircraft. No marks where the wings hit on the building but yet they vaporized-- the truth is we don't know, you can't explain what isn't there, WTC 1,2 and 7 we watched it start to finish, we watched it implode and fall in on it's self, but when there is nothing there to explain... what can you say --show me a plane hitting the building. Let those who try to convince you a plane was there tell you what happen to the people. If you have to hear something, though to not be a duck-out-- they were flown to Area 51 and killed, hows that
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Old December 15th, 2007, 03:21 PM   #39
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CP1:The fact that, that many people come and go is a great way to go unnoticed and just like with hospitals, they never quit working on those buildings or are constantly remodeling, being there are/ were hundreds of leases in those blds. they were constantly modified. My brother worked, on a fairly regular basis, in and around those bldg. and said he could never remember when crews weren't there working, elevators closed, floors shut down, ect. Would it take alot of time, you bet. The WTC was under attack in 93, they knew it was a target and 9 years is plenty of time to pull this off. Unless I missed it, the diesel wasn't stored on the fire floors, plus it was encased in concrete. With an ignition temp of 497 F plus source, I would love to know how the transfer of heat AND ignition penetrated that in particulate form.
CP2: Planes hit, no doubt-- even Bush admits seeing the FIRST plane hit (no-one else did, but I'm sure he has his souces) Remotes? Sure we know from Future Weapons they exsist--all good
CP3: Any building that is being demolished starts at the top. Planes hit near enough the top to start the implosions like any other planned building fall. You also disregard the free fall speed they came down (i.e. no resistence) not to mention the floors so weakend by jet fuel that it melted structual supports wasn't enough to penetrate human skin, given there are pixs with people hanging out the windows on the same floors
CP4: When your plans is to take down the whole bldg. what difference does it make if some are damaged --I work firework displays in July, believe me there is more than one lead for detonation--this isn't Elmer Fudd blowing up Bugs and all he needs to do is redirect the trail of gun powder
CP5:Planning and time, payoffs and corruption --not to mention the fed is the largest employer in the world--a lot of people? probally a lot less than you think--plus who would believe it, you?
1. But surely someone would have seen something and would have come forward after the fact and told of seeing something suspicious. To my knowledge none have. Were all the those workers like your brother in on it too? If not surely one of them would have seem or heard something suspicious.

Your's is the first suggestion I've seen that this was something being planned for 9 years. So was the Clinton administration in on it or was this handled secretly behind his back without anyone finding out.

Apparently most of the diesel was in a tank under the building so role of the diesel in the fire and collapse is debatable. Some was in tanks in the area of the fire and column failure that lead to the collapse. While the tanks may have been concrete they certainly weren't completely sealed in concrete, there had to be fittings for filling and using the fuel and the would have to have some type of venting system. Any of these, or the concrete itself could have failed in a fire.

2. Lot's of people saw the first plane hit, theres even video of hit, although the actually point of impact is obscured. I know there's remote control systems capable of flying planes, but if they were used that even further expands the number of people involved.

3. Yes, building usually a demolished from the top down. Now go watch the video of WTC1 & 2 falling again. They don't collapse starting at the top. They both fail near the point of impact and the top part crashes into the lower part.

You're right, I do disregard the speed of the collapse, because I fail to see the significance of it. It will fall at the speed it will fall at regardless of why it's falling. Once the structural integrity of the building is compromised it offered little resistance to the collapse.

The heat of the burning jet fuel did not have to be hot enough to melt the beams, they only needed to heat up enough to weaken the beams to their yield point. And are you suggesting the burning jet fuel is not hot enough to burn human skin? Why don't you go get some jet fuel, douse yourself in it and light it to test that theory... Let me know how that works out for you.

4. Again, go watch the video of the collapse. It's starts at the point of impact. So what type of explosive were used that withstood the impact and fire?

5. If someone came forward with a story claiming to have actual knowledge of this alleged conspiracy I would want to listen to what he had to say. And given the number of people in the media who would dearly love to bring the
Bush administration down I'm sure that if someone came forward with credible information the media would be on them like flies on shit.
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Old December 15th, 2007, 03:39 PM   #40
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The heat of the burning jet fuel did not have to be hot enough to melt the beams, they only needed to heat up enough to weaken the beams to their yield point. And are you suggesting the burning jet fuel is not hot enough to burn human skin? Why don't you go get some jet fuel, douse yourself in it and light it to test that theory... Let me know how that works out for you.
I laugh every time I see someone say that the heat wasn't hot enough to melt the metal. They clearly have less knowledge of metals than a typical high school age welding student.
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