"Seasonal Roads" - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Land Use > Rules, Regulations, Trail, and ORV Park Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 17th, 2007, 10:32 PM   #1
webqaz
Member
 
Join Date: 03-10-07
Location: Harrison Twp.
Posts: 67
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default "Seasonal Roads"

I was wondering what the rules and regulations are about driving down michigans "Seasonal Roads". Can we drive down these no matter their condition or does the 2wd car rule apply? I was up north recently snowmobiling and noticed a lot of seasonal roads which looked like they would be good to run the jeep on. Also does anyone have any good maps of seasonal roads in the LP?
webqaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old December 17th, 2007, 10:38 PM   #2
boggin-machine
Senior Member
 
boggin-machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-11-06
Location: bay city
Posts: 11,646
iTrader: (31)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

they trn into snowmobile trails in the winter i beleive
boggin-machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2007, 10:51 PM   #3
Roadhouse
DrivewayJeeper
 
Roadhouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Sanford
Posts: 10,956
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogginboy View Post
they trn into snowmobile trails in the winter i beleive
not all of them
Roadhouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2007, 10:57 PM   #4
webqaz
Member
 
Join Date: 03-10-07
Location: Harrison Twp.
Posts: 67
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I mean being a "road" you would think that you could drive a vehicle on it at anytime. But I wonder if these are closed during part of the year or what.
webqaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2007, 10:58 PM   #5
boggin-machine
Senior Member
 
boggin-machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-11-06
Location: bay city
Posts: 11,646
iTrader: (31)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadhouse View Post
not all of them
whats the rule of thumb then?
boggin-machine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2007, 11:02 PM   #6
blownexploder94
Todd
 
blownexploder94's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-22-07
Location: South Lyon
Posts: 1,074
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

i heard a few years back that seasonal roads are just not maintained and plowed in the winter monthes so they say they arn;t to be used then ........just what i heard .... don;t know if i believe it or not
blownexploder94 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2007, 11:05 PM   #7
thormxboy420
FOUNDRY RATT
 
thormxboy420's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-02-07
Location: Ludington, MI
Posts: 544
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to thormxboy420
Default

all they say is "not plowed by the road commission" so run em and play dumb.
thormxboy420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2007, 12:00 AM   #8
Roadhouse
DrivewayJeeper
 
Roadhouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Sanford
Posts: 10,956
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bogginboy View Post
whats the rule of thumb then?
they are usually signed for sleds. i've seen signs that say if over "blank" amount of snow road is closed to all vehicles except sleds.

thats one of the things i've noticed. I'm sure Ironman or KBY8MF can anwser this question better.
Roadhouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2007, 08:24 AM   #9
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,174
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default From: http://www.legislature.mi.gov

Section 247.655a linkable
printable


STATE TRUNK LINE HIGHWAY SYSTEM (EXCERPT)
Act 51 of 1951

247.655a Seasonal county road system.

Sec. 5a.

(1) The board of county road commissioners of each county may establish a system of seasonal county roads, which may be part of either the county primary road system, the county local road system, or both systems. A board of county road commissioners in establishing a system of seasonal county roads, may declare a road under the jurisdiction of the board to not be open to public travel during the months of November through April, which road shall then not be open to public travel.

(2) The seasonal county road system shall include any road under the jurisdiction of the board of county road commissioners which that board determines shall not be open to public travel each year for a period of less than 12 months. The system of seasonal county roads shall be selected on the basis of seasonal use of the roads and in accordance with rules promulgated by the state transportation department. A board of county road commissioners may include or exclude roads in the seasonal county road system upon adoption of a proper resolution but only after holding a public hearing. Notice of the public hearing shall be given to the clerk of the county and of each city, village, or township in which the roads are situated and published at least twice in a newspaper of general circulation in that county, the first notice to be not less than 30 days before the hearing and the second notice not less than 7 days before the hearing. The notice shall contain the date, time, and place of the hearing and shall describe in general terms the action proposed to be taken by the board, the roads to be affected, and the period of time that the roads shall not be open to public travel. The business which the board may perform at the public hearing shall be conducted at a hearing held in compliance with Act No. 267 of the Public Acts of 1976, as amended, being sections 15.261 to 15.275 of the Michigan Compiled Laws. In addition to the other notices required by this subsection, public notice of the time, date, and place of the hearing shall be given in the manner required by Act No. 267 of the Public Acts of 1976, as amended. If at the hearing an objection is made to the designation of a road as a part of the seasonal county road system by a person occupying a structure located upon or along the road as the person's principal residence, the commissioners shall not designate that road as a part of the seasonal county road system unless the commissioners provide that person with immediate access to a road which is not a part of the seasonal county road system.

(3) Within 30 days after final adoption of a resolution establishing a seasonal county road system, the board of county road commissioners shall file with the state transportation department and each city, village, or township in which the roads are situated a full record of its determination.

(4) The designation of a road as part of the seasonal county road system shall not affect the certification of the road under this act, but if the road is not open to public travel during the months of December to April, the road shall be excluded for purposes of the distribution of snow removal funds under section 12a.

(5) A road included as part of the seasonal county road system shall be excluded for the purposes of determining the distribution of funds under sections 12(4) and 12b for each year in which the road is part of the seasonal county road system.

(6) A map shall be maintained and on display in the office of each board of county road commissioners which has established a seasonal county roads system which shall also inform the public of the dates the road or road shall not open to public travel.

(7) The board shall place and maintain signs on all roads designated as seasonal county roads, which signs shall describe the roads as seasonal county roads.


History: Add. 1981, Act 184, Imd. Eff. Dec. 23, 1981
Compiler's Notes: In the last sentence of subsection (2), the word “system” at the end of the sentence should evidently read “system.”
Popular Name: McNitt Act
Popular Name: Michigan Transportation Fund Act
Admin Rule: R 247.651 et seq. of the Michigan Administrative Code.


Every road needs to be treated on a case-by-case basis.
It depends on HOW the local County Road Commission has dedicated it.
Some are CLOSED to vehicular traffic, some are just 'unmaintained' for the winter.

IF a Seasonal Road is also a snowmobile route, I'd let the sleds have their fun. We get to use them 9 months of the year. I don't see any benefit from getting anyone ticked off over a few roads for a couple months. IF it's NOT a snowmobile route AND it's not closed to traffic (legally, by the CRC) then HAVE FUN!

Last edited by Trail_Fanatic; December 18th, 2007 at 06:35 PM.
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2007, 08:55 AM   #10
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 21,257
iTrader: (21)
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Default

So it is my responsibility to go to the county office to check out if a road is closed or not? Why don't they just post it if it is closed?
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2007, 09:03 AM   #11
DUNTRUCKIN
LOVING LIFE
 
DUNTRUCKIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-15-07
Location: Harrison, MI
Posts: 1,038
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Up in this area, the seasonal roads are just posted that they are not maintained by the road commision. I've never seen one that has been posted as closed because of the snow..
DUNTRUCKIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2007, 11:40 AM   #12
Rattler
Home Sweet Homicide
 
Rattler's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-17-06
Location: Bei City
Posts: 3,654
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

I have never noticed any of them to say they are open to snowmobiles or anything like tht either. Seems they are always the same signage.
Rattler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2007, 01:22 PM   #13
phittie1100
Senior Member
 
phittie1100's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-26-05
Location: Burton, MI
Posts: 1,833
iTrader: (15)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Not much help from county websites:

"Seasonal Road Policy
The Ogemaw County Road Commission does not provide winter maintenance on seasonal roads from November 1st through April 30th. If you would like more information regarding seasonal roads you may contact the Road Commission."

(Montmorency County)
"We do not necessarily plow all County Roads. Some are too narrow, too steep or don't have a place to turn around. In most cases, school buses will only go on plowed county roads, so check with us before you buy or build a house if you are not sure."
__________________
Paul - 2005 Wrangler Unlimited
KD8PAV
phittie1100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2007, 01:35 PM   #14
webqaz
Member
 
Join Date: 03-10-07
Location: Harrison Twp.
Posts: 67
iTrader: (2)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

All of this information has been pretty helpful. I guess the best thing to do is to just contact the county and ask. Btw thanks Trail_Fanatic for the link.

Last edited by webqaz; December 18th, 2007 at 02:55 PM.
webqaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2007, 07:05 PM   #15
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,174
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

It pays to check the maps and know the local road system well too.
My area has some unimproved roads that are NOT designated as Seasonal Roads. They still don't receive blading in winter (or summer) but that removes any doubt that these are open to travel at all times of year.

I'm learning that not all CRCs agree on the maintenance standards of various road designations.

I'm a HUGE fan of getting an official "Unimproved Road" designation that helps both the CRCs and those of us who prefer driving 'rustic' roads (the more rustic the better!). It's not currently an 'official' classification, although it is a widely used term with CRCs.

My thought process is:
The CRC's would save a ton on maintenance. They wouldn't have to spend money on blading because it wouldn't be required. Only culvert/ bridge work of a minimum 'tonnage' capacity for light duty vehicular traffic (like the little one lane concrete or wood bridges) and tree removal. That way they still get to Certify them and collect funding from their presence; we get the reassurance that those roads won't see major improvement while the designation is in place.


We're always looking for help monitoring CRCs.
Sometimes we find illegal road obstructions that the CRC will remove - keeping our back roads open. Sometimes the CRCs receive a Petition for Abandonment from local land owners. GLFWDA and the Two Trackers have both saved several roads from official abandonment in '07. They lack enough volunteers for complete State-wide coverage at this time. If you'd like to assist with a county or area, contact landuse@glfwda.org

To report an illegal obstruction, you need to verify that the road in question IS currently claimed by the CRC. Once claim is established, report away. Preferably in writing, mailed with a signature required for delivery. Then Keep an eye on the obstruction - and the paper. Either the obstruction will disappear, or a Notice of Petition for Abandonment will appear in the local paper of notice. You might get the CRC to keep you posted of its status, but you're probably better off checking with them often, or attending their meetings.

Last edited by Trail_Fanatic; December 21st, 2007 at 09:15 AM.
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2007, 07:15 PM   #16
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,174
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
So it is my responsibility to go to the county office to check out if a road is closed or not? Why don't they just post it if it is closed?
Afraid so. Just like it's our responsibility to know who's land we're on at all times. A polite phone call is usually all that's needed to find out, but it's technically our job to make the trip if they're dinks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUNTRUCKIN View Post
Up in this area, the seasonal roads are just posted that they are not maintained by the road commission. I've never seen one that has been posted as closed because of the snow..
I don't think they sign them as closed. It's in how the CRC applies the designation. I've NEVER had an issue, and didn't know about it until just a few months ago, when I was reading the law I posted. I don't think it's enforced much, but better safe than sorry - or forewarned is forearmed, or something like that. :tonka:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rattler View Post
I have never noticed any of them to say they are open to snowmobiles or anything like that either. Seems they are always the same signage.
Snowmobile Routes aren't signed by the CRC. They'll be designated with 'red diamond' confidence markers. The CRC will just have a Seasonal Road sign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by webqaz View Post
All of this information has been pretty helpful. I guess the best thing to do is to just contact the county and ask. Btw thanks Trail_Fanatic for the link.


Always glad to help when I can . . .

Especially when it might result in another person watching their little part of the world for the benefit of the unimproved roads. I just might want to drive it some day!

Or maybe my great-grand kids will?

Keep us posted!

Last edited by Trail_Fanatic; December 18th, 2007 at 07:19 PM.
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2007, 10:21 PM   #17
kb8ymf
Not as old as Whiterhino
 
kb8ymf's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-01-06
Location: Dryden,Mi.
Posts: 1,098
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail_Fanatic View Post
It pays to check the maps and know the local road system well too.
My area has some unimproved roads that are NOT designated as Seasonal Roads. They still don't receive blading in winter (or summer) but that removes any doubt that these are open to travel at all times of year.
Pat, It's my understanding that unless the county does 'some' maintenance on a road they can not apply for federal funding monies. That's where seasonal road designation comes in. The 'unimproved' road designation is not one I familiar with . What status does this bring with it? Is it a road that the county does not claim for funding but yet does not want to proceed with abandonment proceedings?

As far as utilizing seasonal roads in the winter. Other than the caveat that Pat brought up with a 'marked' groomed snowmobile, their fair game for use by wheeled vehicles in the winter and the 2WD rule does NOT apply. GLFWDA has a letter from the DNR that was printed in the Boondocker a few years back that I'm still trying to get a hold of (HINT, HINT, HINT, you know who you are!!!!!!!!) so we can reprint it and users will better understand the rules.

jim-kb8ymf
kb8ymf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 19th, 2007, 04:40 AM   #18
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,174
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb8ymf View Post
Pat, It's my understanding that unless the county does 'some' maintenance on a road they can not apply for federal funding monies. That's where seasonal road designation comes in. The 'unimproved' road designation is not one I familiar with . What status does this bring with it? Is it a road that the county does not claim for funding but yet does not want to proceed with abandonment proceedings?
jim-kb8ymf

Unimproved is not an official designation yet.
There's been talk of it, but it hasn't happened to date.
We need to start pushing for it.

These roads aren't 'totally' unimproved like it sounds, either.
Many have bridges and culverts that need occasional attention.

Also, maintenance isn't synonymous with blading.

"Some maintenance" might also be a CRC employee driving a CRC truck, burning CRC gasoline, to inspect the road. Funds were expended to ensure the road is passable to the public, 'maintaining' its passable condition for the public.

Last edited by Trail_Fanatic; December 19th, 2007 at 04:55 AM.
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 19th, 2007, 11:14 AM   #19
Bigtoe
Member
 
Join Date: 05-21-07
Location: Michigan
Posts: 60
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default they have to post it

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
So it is my responsibility to go to the county office to check out if a road is closed or not? Why don't they just post it if it is closed?
If its not posted closed for season you can use it. There usually an orange gate so ,you can't get in if you wanted to.You still can't tear up the road???????
Bigtoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 21st, 2007, 05:52 AM   #20
kb8ymf
Not as old as Whiterhino
 
kb8ymf's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-01-06
Location: Dryden,Mi.
Posts: 1,098
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail_Fanatic View Post
"Some maintenance" might also be a CRC employee driving a CRC truck, burning CRC gasoline, to inspect the road. Funds were expended to ensure the road is passable to the public, 'maintaining' its passable condition for the public.
Doesn't this bring us right back to a road that can be driven in a 2WD vehicle?
j-kb8ymf
kb8ymf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Land Use > Rules, Regulations, Trail, and ORV Park Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:54 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.40282 seconds with 82 queries