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Old November 7th, 2007, 10:28 PM   #41
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The Big bang theory is more recent than they knew of. Darwin did not write the "Origin of the Species" until about 1859, before then it was understood that God is our Creator.The Declaration of Independence was written about in about 1776 and we did not have a constitution until about 1789. Our laws are based on "natural law".
Religious beliefs affected every aspect of our government but they did not want a state church nor a church state. Did you know that prayers have started every session since the beginning?
We also used to think the world is flat.

As society grows, and becomes more educated, we can prove theories and make them fact via the scientific method.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 10:38 PM   #42
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honestly Dave, that doesn't matter, that was their personal business, separation of Church and state was the game, baby.
Wear does it say that any were in the constitution?
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Old November 7th, 2007, 10:45 PM   #43
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Wear does it say that any were in the constitution?
it doesn't state those specific words, but it's been interpreted that way. There are a lot of things that the constitution doesn't come right out and say.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 10:50 PM   #44
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Wear does it say that any were in the constitution?
It is "implied" in the constitution. Just because it is not there, doesn't mean that the idea isn't there.

Congress (government) shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..... Basically saying, it will not govern as a religion, nor will it be against a religion.


And if you disagree with this logic, that it is implied, please answer me why the supreme court reached a decision wording that the constitution exhibits implied "seperation of church and state" and was established by the supreme court in the 40's, and has yet to be challenged. I believe it was Mcallum vs the board of education
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Old November 7th, 2007, 10:55 PM   #45
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It doesn't.





I believe in beer.



Oh, yeah, and the Irish preserved all your religious dogma in the middle ages while Europe was being raped and burnt by barbarians. So we rule. Buy me a .
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Old November 7th, 2007, 11:04 PM   #46
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It is "implied" in the constitution. Just because it is not there, doesn't mean that the idea isn't there.

Congress (government) shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..... Basically saying, it will not govern as a religion, nor will it be against a religion.


And if you disagree with this logic, that it is implied, please answer me why the supreme court reached a decision wording that the constitution exhibits implied "seperation of church and state" and was established by the supreme court in the 40's, and has yet to be challenged. I believe it was Mcallum vs the board of education
I agree with this point that they will not infringe on your right to practice religion or not to practice any religion that you chose. I am not sure of the case that you are stating I will have to look that up and read it. But it was Tj who did state that the bible should be required reading in schools as a bases for the English language when he was the superintended of schools. The capital was used as a church and the Marine band was the worship band. Also to become a state back then it was stated that you had to promote the Christian beliefs to become a state. The government used to print and hand out bibles also. So separation of church and state I do not think is "implied" at all but, not to infringe on your right to practice any religion that you chose is implied in there.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 11:09 PM   #47
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We also used to think the world is flat.

As society grows, and becomes more educated, we can prove theories and make them fact via the scientific method.
Absolute truth never changes.
The theory of evolution has been around a lot longer than Darwin in one form or another, he just made it popular for the scientific commnity to believe it, along with Charles Lyle's theory of uniformitarianism, which made it plausible.
BTW
Is it better to believe the imaginations of fallible men who were not there,
or the testimony of God who was there?
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Old November 8th, 2007, 06:36 AM   #48
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I just wanted to make a note back to the first page. the only countrys that used relgion to take over other countrys was Spain & France in the last 500 years. British rule was for the all mighty dollar/Pound so to speak. they sought to expand empire by taking over lands based on what they could exploit and ship home. I don't remember anyhwere where they forced religion down the throats of the native peoples. However Missionarys did. they came from all over Europe to do so. the Spanish used Christ as a tool to stomp out cultures they didn't see fit to survive. the French used it in the south seas to bring the heathens to a new light and destinty. most of what I have seen from the religious right was done so in the guise of hostile take over and to convert people to strenghten their own numbers while exploiting the resources of a given area. sound like anyone we know?
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Old November 8th, 2007, 06:39 AM   #49
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on a side note, look what Christianity did for countrys like India. they have grow so over populated they are bursting at the seams. that I can blame on the british
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Old November 8th, 2007, 07:05 AM   #50
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I just wanted to make a note back to the first page. the only countrys that used relgion to take over other countrys was Spain & France in the last 500 years. British rule was for the all mighty dollar/Pound so to speak. they sought to expand empire by taking over lands based on what they could exploit and ship home. I don't remember anyhwere where they forced religion down the throats of the native peoples. However Missionarys did. they came from all over Europe to do so. the Spanish used Christ as a tool to stomp out cultures they didn't see fit to survive. the French used it in the south seas to bring the heathens to a new light and destinty. most of what I have seen from the religious right was done so in the guise of hostile take over and to convert people to strenghten their own numbers while exploiting the resources of a given area. sound like anyone we know?
pssst. Yetti, ever heard of The Church of England or the Anglican Church? This was a government created religion and it was forced onto the people by Henry the VIII. If you didn't attend Anglican church services you would be fined.

this is one of the big reasons you saw colonists leaving England for the "new world"', to escape religious persecution, mostly Puritans.
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Old November 8th, 2007, 07:27 AM   #51
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I just wanted to make a note back to the first page. the only countrys that used relgion to take over other countrys was Spain & France in the last 500 years.
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Old November 8th, 2007, 07:30 AM   #52
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Absolute truth never changes.
The theory of evolution has been around a lot longer than Darwin in one form or another, he just made it popular for the scientific commnity to believe it, along with Charles Lyle's theory of uniformitarianism, which made it plausible.
BTW
Is it better to believe the imaginations of fallible men who were not there,
or the testimony of God who was there?
The good, say the mystics of spirit, is God, a being whose only definition is that he is beyond man's power to conceive- a definition that invalidates man's consciousness and nullifies his concepts of existence...Man's mind, say the mystics of spirit, must be subordinated to the will of God... Man's standard of value, say the mystics of spirit, is the pleasure of God, whose standards are beyond man's power of comprehension and must be accepted on faith....The purpose of man's life...is to become an abject zombie who serves a purpose he does not know, for reasons he is not to question. -The New Intellectual
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Old November 8th, 2007, 07:48 AM   #53
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take a look at history and see how well that worked.


PWNED
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Old November 8th, 2007, 07:56 AM   #54
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PWNED
pardon?
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Old November 8th, 2007, 08:15 AM   #55
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Bottom line this world sucks because men fight over Power, Money and who is in control.

freedom is what the is about you can belive in what you want and live together.

I can not show you that there is a God but I can show you where Man has caused his own problums. And if it took God to hold people together and make it work I guess they did the job in there time.

But right now this country is not standing together or very tall.

you can Quote me.:tonka:
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Old November 8th, 2007, 08:23 AM   #56
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And if it took God to hold people together and make it work I guess they did the job in there time.
in a lot of cases this is not true, part of the reason why America was founded the way it was, to do away with that.
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Old November 8th, 2007, 09:02 AM   #57
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One thing no one has really touched base on. Is many of the founding fathers were "Masons". Not necessarily religious in nature, but suppose to be good honorable men. Certainly too, Christianity covers a very broad spectrum of religious denominations. In the scheme of things Christianity is not nearly as old as Buddhism (480 BC) or Hinduism (400BC), both give or take a couple hundred years. Point being, more wars and fathom have been the direct result of religious squabbles. Most of them being Christian in nature. Christianity has a lot to learn yet. Man has known God existed, long before Christ stepped foot on earth. I feel Christ came here to try and set Christianity straight and to what it should be. Not what any Priest or Pope tells us it is suppose to be based on their interpretation of the bible. Interpretation of the Bible and the Koran and mis-interpretation is how we end up with violent extremists who "think" they are doing the right thing. A true Muslim who follows the original untainted Koran is not an extremist or feels that blowing up a bus full of kids will get them into heaven. Theirs definitely a place in hell for those people. I say, do good, be good, be moral, believe in God or a greater being or cause and there will be a place in heaven for you.
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Old November 8th, 2007, 09:05 AM   #58
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One thing no one has really touched base on. Is many of the founding fathers were "Masons". Not necessarily religious in nature, but suppose to be good honorable men. Certainly too, Christianity covers a very broad spectrum of religious denominations. In the scheme of things Christianity is not nearly as old as Buddhism (480 BC) or Hinduism (400BC), both give or take a couple hundred years. Point being, more wars and fathom have been the direct result of religious squabbles. Most of them being Christian in nature. Christianity has a lot to learn yet. Man has known God existed, long before Christ stepped foot on earth. I feel Christ came here to try and set Christianity straight and to what it should be. Not what any Priest or Pope tells us it is suppose to be based on their interpretation of the bible. Interpretation of the Bible and the Koran and mis-interpretation is how we end up with violent extremists who "think" they are doing the right thing. A true Muslim who follows the original untainted Koran is not an extremist or feels that blowing up a bus full of kids will get them into heaven. Theirs definitely a place in hell for those people. I say, do good, be good, be moral, believe in God or a greater being or cause and there will be a place in heaven for you.
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Old November 8th, 2007, 09:16 AM   #59
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One thing no one has really touched base on. Is many of the founding fathers were "Masons". Not necessarily religious in nature, but suppose to be good honorable men. Certainly too, Christianity covers a very broad spectrum of religious denominations. In the scheme of things Christianity is not nearly as old as Buddhism (480 BC) or Hinduism (400BC), both give or take a couple hundred years. Point being, more wars and fathom have been the direct result of religious squabbles. Most of them being Christian in nature. Christianity has a lot to learn yet. Man has known God existed, long before Christ stepped foot on earth. I feel Christ came here to try and set Christianity straight and to what it should be. Not what any Priest or Pope tells us it is suppose to be based on their interpretation of the bible. Interpretation of the Bible and the Koran and mis-interpretation is how we end up with violent extremists who "think" they are doing the right thing. A true Muslim who follows the original untainted Koran is not an extremist or feels that blowing up a bus full of kids will get them into heaven. Theirs definitely a place in hell for those people. I say, do good, be good, be moral, believe in God or a greater being or cause and there will be a place in heaven for you.
x2

Well said.
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Old November 8th, 2007, 09:27 AM   #60
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Thank You. Took me many years to come to that conclusion.
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