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Old November 7th, 2007, 05:44 PM   #21
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I am talking about our nation in terms of morality, sorry for not being clear. Bad is being called good, and good is being called bad. School shootings, broken marriages, you name it. Our society is rampant with tough stuff, and Christianity is being removed more and more as time goes on. I think there is a link between these two issues.
Sure times are changing. For one, divorces now happen because the woman now has a voice. Remember woman's suffrage?? Women couldn't even vote until the 1920's, so I'm guessing since they couldn't vote, they couldn't initiate a divorce.

How about slavery? 200 years ago, I could grab a 100 spot, go to the town store and purchase a couple slaves. Now africans can live among everybody else, and they also have a voice.

Another thing to remember, is the population of the US is a thousand fold what it was in 1776. Whenever you have more people, you will have more issues. If you want to address school shootings, go research the columbine killers, and their christian upbringing. What happened there?

IMO the complete world is going downhill, and I worry what it will be like in 10 years. I do not attribute this to decline of christianity, but to the result of an evergrowing population of the world that is constantly fighting for land, food, and money.

Through evolution, we have our own "population checks and balances". It was the black plague, it was ebola, now its aids, mutating virus infections, crazy religious people with nukes. The world will slowly go back to a population it can handle, if the humans are alive when the population check comes, then they will probably be happier. I'm guessing the humans will not be around though..
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Old November 7th, 2007, 05:50 PM   #22
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When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.


I am sure you have all read this but look it over again
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Old November 7th, 2007, 05:54 PM   #23
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When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.


I am sure you have all read this but look it over again


PLEASE don't confuse the declaration of independance with the constitution that this country is founded on. Here is what starts out the founding fathers desires:


We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 06:09 PM   #24
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there are a lot of christians I disagree with too. pat robertson endorced juliani today, and I would too if he had any respect for the unborn.
this is awesome. you jesus freaks are gonna fukc up the election for the Republicans...i love it.

Yes Dave Kerwin, follow James Dobson, not evil ol' Pat Robertson.

YouTube Video
ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.


p.s. i think hannity's gonna cry.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 06:11 PM   #25
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PLEASE don't confuse the declaration of independance with the constitution that this country is founded on. Here is what starts out the founding fathers desires:


We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

ok which one was first???
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Old November 7th, 2007, 06:11 PM   #26
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When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.


I am sure you have all read this but look it over again
even so, it says Creator, not Jebus or Christ or anything...maybe the creator is the big bang theory. plus, like CC said, it's the constitution that sets up our government and laws.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 06:15 PM   #27
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even so, it says Creator, not Jebus or Christ or anything...maybe the creator is the big bang theory. plus, like CC said, it's the constitution that sets up our government and laws.


you could be right but I dont think they really knew much about the big bang theory (theory right) plus it has the word god in it so I do not think so.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 06:16 PM   #28
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even so, it says Creator, not Jebus or Christ or anything...maybe the creator is the big bang theory. plus, like CC said, it's the constitution that sets up our government and laws.
Mike, don't even claim that the word creator can mean evolution, c'mon.

But in terms of voting, I will vote for ANYONE besides Clinton
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Old November 7th, 2007, 06:17 PM   #29
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Mike, don't even claim that the word creator can mean evolution, c'mon.

But in terms of voting, I will vote for ANYONE besides Clinton
good, just don't vote for Rudy "baby killer" Giuliani.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 06:19 PM   #30
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ok which one was first???
The declaration of independance was nothing more then a kind letter to the king of england informing him that the colonys are sick of sending tax money to them. This had NOTHING to do with the formation, and more importantly the founding elements of the new country. Religion was very important in the colonies, but the founding fathers knew that a religious backed government would not function.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 06:40 PM   #31
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ok which one was first???
wow, you are claiming to know that our country was founded a certain way and you don't know which came first the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution???
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Old November 7th, 2007, 08:15 PM   #32
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wow, you are claiming to know that our country was founded a certain way and you don't know which came first the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution???
rhetorical perhaps?
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Old November 7th, 2007, 08:19 PM   #33
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rhetorical perhaps?
i hope so.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 08:23 PM   #34
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wow. what would happen if i used a you tube video as a source for a report or paper? sova i thank you for giving me such reliable sources.

kthxbye.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 08:25 PM   #35
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wow. what would happen if i used a you tube video as a source for a report or paper? sova i thank you for giving me such reliable sources.

kthxbye.
is this a report or paper? nope, it's an internet forum. I bet all of those quotes are lies, since it's in video form. I guess we can just assume those are all fake.

sorry for the waste of time everyone.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 08:43 PM   #36
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wow, you are claiming to know that our country was founded a certain way and you don't know which came first the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution???
I made no such claim. You seem to be the on who is claiming things,( like knowing what I am saying) I was just pointing out that on july 4 1776 "god" was thought of and used in life.
dont read in to stuff to much.
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Old November 7th, 2007, 08:56 PM   #37
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even so, it says Creator, not Jebus or Christ or anything...maybe the creator is the big bang theory. plus, like CC said, it's the constitution that sets up our government and laws.
The Big bang theory is more recent than they knew of. Darwin did not write the "Origin of the Species" until about 1859, before then it was understood that God is our Creator.
The Declaration of Independence was written about in about 1776 and we did not have a constitution until about 1789. Our laws are based on "natural law".
Religious beliefs affected every aspect of our government but they did not want a state church nor a church state. Did you know that prayers have started every session since the beginning?
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Old November 7th, 2007, 09:47 PM   #38
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John Adams 2nd President of these United States in his Inaugural Address:
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"...if an unshaken confidence in the honor, spirit, and resources of the American people, on which I have so often hazarded my all and never been deceived; if elevated ideas of the high destinies of this country and of my own duties toward it, founded on a knowledge of the moral principles and intellectual improvements of the people deeply engraven on my mind in early life, and not obscured but exalted by experience and age; and, with humble reverence, I feel it to be my duty to add, if a veneration for the religion of a people who profess and call themselves Christians, and a fixed resolution to consider a decent respect for Christianity among the best recommendations for the public service, can enable me in any degree to comply with your wishes, it shall be my strenuous endeavor that this sagacious injunction of the two Houses shall not be without effect.

With this great example before me, with the sense and spirit, the faith and honor, the duty and interest, of the same American people pledged to support the Constitution of the United States, I entertain no doubt of its continuance in all its energy, and my mind is prepared without hesitation to lay myself under the most solemn obligations to support it to the utmost of my power.

And may that Being who is supreme over all, the Patron of Order, the Fountain of Justice, and the Protector in all ages of the world of virtuous liberty, continue His blessing upon this nation and its Government and give it all possible success and duration consistent with the ends of His providence."
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Old November 7th, 2007, 10:09 PM   #39
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not abe lincoln, not john adams, not thomas paine, not james madison, not george washington, not ben franklin, and CERTAINLY not Thomas Jefferson


Heres some TJ quotes:

....
Heres one you missed...

[The Jefferson Bible] is a document in proof that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its author never said nor saw.
Letter to Charles Thomson 9 January 1816
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Old November 7th, 2007, 10:26 PM   #40
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Jefferson was a self proclaimed deist.
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