Does prayer work? - Page 6 - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
View Poll Results: Does prayer work???
Prayer does not work, there is no god to listen. 15 17.05%
Prayer works, God hears us and moves. 48 54.55%
I am not sure, it seems to matter somehow though. 21 23.86%
Hug Cubetor. 4 4.55%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 6th, 2007, 07:32 AM   #101
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,557
iTrader: (40)
Mentioned: 122 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post


What means: "Why would you ask this question to this group"???
since some no believe in the hebus, then no point in talking bout it
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old November 6th, 2007, 09:09 AM   #102
Geoff
Member
 
Geoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-08-07
Location: howell mi
Posts: 46
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post
What does that mean?



You accept them as knowledge, that is faith, faith that what you are told is true. No one said you had to prove something to be true to believe in it.




What I am saying is that you can't say you know something to be true unless you witnessed it. You can only say that you believe that it is true.
So what your saying is there is no way I can believe in china because I have never been there to see it myself? I can not know for sure that plasma cutters cuts because I have never used one? How do I even know that I have a bones inside me and not big pieces of PVC I have never see them to test there make up?

This logic it messed up at best and just plain NOT logic...if we had to be the FIRST eye witness to everything we knew as true, schools would not work, the tech side of this forum would not work. And we would all be very ignorant about the world.

Sure we know things to be true with out seeing them frist hand...do you Know you have a hart in your chest, (have you see it? frist hand) do you know that pop has suger in it? (where you there at the coke plant when they put it in)
<if you say you see the signs of your hart beating and the lable to the suger then I agree 100% with you...thats faith>

our minds are "created" to run on Faith...not blind stuiped faith, but a logic, resoned out faith.
Geoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 09:22 AM   #103
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,689
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
since some no believe in the hebus, then no point in talking bout it
people like to talk about prayer a lot on this forum, far more than I do, so I figured I would see where people are at in terms of its usability. (is that a word? lol)
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 12:01 PM   #104
3-foot
Senior Member
 
3-foot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-21-06
Location: Springfield Township, Mi
Posts: 1,121
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
So what your saying is there is no way I can believe in china because I have never been there to see it myself? I can not know for sure that plasma cutters cuts because I have never used one? How do I even know that I have a bones inside me and not big pieces of PVC I have never see them to test there make up?
Indeed, how do you know? You trust what others tell you. That is faith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
This logic it messed up at best and just plain NOT logic...if we had to be the FIRST eye witness to everything we knew as true, schools would not work, the tech side of this forum would not work. And we would all be very ignorant about the world.
Schools work fine based on faith. I believe that George Washington was the first president. I don't know that he was but everyone told me it's true and I have faith that what I was told was accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
Sure we know things to be true with out seeing them frist hand...do you Know you have a hart in your chest, (have you see it? frist hand) do you know that pop has suger in it? (where you there at the coke plant when they put it in)
<if you say you see the signs of your hart beating and the lable to the suger then I agree 100% with you...thats faith>

our minds are "created" to run on Faith...not blind stuiped faith, but a logic, resoned out faith.
I don't have to see my heart to know it's there, I can feel it beating, it's still first hand experience.

I don't have to see the sugar in pop I can taste it, again first hand experience.

Sorry but you haven't proven the logic to be "messed up", but keep trying if you like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
So lets say I saw David Blaine do a magic trick where he made a bunny disappear. It is true only because I was there to see it myself??
Just because you see it doesn't make it real. I never made the claim that everything you see is real.

What I said was...... saying that something is real without experiencing it first hand isn't knowledge, it's faith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
Also, what if the eye witneses of Christ's life and death and resurrection wrote about it first hand and said documents were unchanged throught he course of history? Does THEIR eye witness testimony mean anything?
It means something to the person who wrote it, maybe. To me it's a story that may or may not be true either partially or fully.

If I believe the story, then I am believing it to be the truth, based on faith.
3-foot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 12:09 PM   #105
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,689
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

So if you were a judge in a court room, would you dismiss all personal testimony about what happened in certain events? Or would you instead hear them, determine if they are true, and accept some as fact?
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 12:58 PM   #106
steveo
In the band!
 
Join Date: 03-30-07
Location: montana/wyoming
Posts: 20,293
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
So if you were a judge in a court room, would you dismiss all personal testimony about what happened in certain events?
if the testimony was from an ancient book of fairytales, yes.
steveo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 01:02 PM   #107
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,689
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo View Post
if the testimony was from an ancient book of fairytales, yes.
The point is that some personal testimony is not accurate because of the credibility of the witness. If you are using another measuring rod, then you are not being a good judge, or being fair.

Steve, how much do you know about the life of Jesus and the life of those who followed him for three years? Have you even attempted to evaluate their personal eye witness accounts? Have you determined if they are credible witnesses?
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 01:14 PM   #108
steveo
In the band!
 
Join Date: 03-30-07
Location: montana/wyoming
Posts: 20,293
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
The point is that some personal testimony is not accurate because of the credibility of the witness. If you are using another measuring rod, then you are not being a good judge, or being fair.

Steve, how much do you know about the life of Jesus and the life of those who followed him for three years? Have you even attempted to evaluate their personal eye witness accounts? Have you determined if they are credible witnesses?
I know what i have read in the bible, and i read it cover to cover several times while in slam. Most of the time i have better things to do than ponder the re re re written, possibly based on truth accounts of men who died over 1900 years ago. My puny overclocked ape brain does not need the added complications of the weird shit the bible contains being truth.
steveo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 01:25 PM   #109
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,689
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Re-re-re written when exactly? Proof of said re-writes? News steveo, you are weaseling out of personal eye witness testomonies of people who not only were there to see it, but died terrible deaths to protect it. You are refusing to evaluate the witnesses to determine their credibitlity. We already concluded that we cannot accept a testimony without evaluating the credibility of the witness. Your backing out of this is because you don't want to know about the disciples and what they saw, because it will demand your faith in Christ, which you are not ready to give.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 01:33 PM   #110
steveo
In the band!
 
Join Date: 03-30-07
Location: montana/wyoming
Posts: 20,293
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
Re-re-re written when exactly? Proof of said re-writes?
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n_...90%2Cn%3A12059
each one of those is a rewrite. give up dave, i am never joining you evil empire, so you may just as well ignore me. I sent a pm containing a possible convert. he carry's this copy of the bible.
http://www.amazon.com/Reclaiming-Sac...4377600&sr=1-3
steveo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 01:38 PM   #111
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,689
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo View Post
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_nr_n_...90%2Cn%3A12059
each one of those is a rewrite. give up
Those are different versions of the same text, to which every original word in greek and hebrew are preserved without change. I can tell you ANY word from the Bible in its original language, and the meaning of each individual word. What say ye now?
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 02:11 PM   #112
mikesova
My 4x4 is a Subaru.
 
mikesova's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Gladwin, MI
Posts: 7,793
iTrader: (1)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to mikesova
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Kerwin View Post
Those are different versions of the same text, to which every original word in greek and hebrew are preserved without change. I can tell you ANY word from the Bible in its original language, and the meaning of each individual word. What say ye now?
that's as impressive as if you would have memorized The Lord of the Rings trilogy in Elvish.
mikesova is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 02:14 PM   #113
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,689
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikesova View Post
that's as impressive as if you would have memorized The Lord of the Rings trilogy in Elvish.
I love LOTR, just watched the trilogy in order last month
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 02:24 PM   #114
FORD FLARESIDE
Someday, yeah Someday
 
FORD FLARESIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-09-06
Location: Comstock Park
Posts: 21,710
iTrader: (24)
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo View Post
if the testimony was from an ancient book of fairytales, yes.
So let me get this straight, in your words the "Bible" is an ancient book of Fairytales?

If so, answer these questions.
Have you ever read it? (i mean like you would read a parts manual for your car)
If you have read it, have you researched it?
If you have researched it, have you discussed it in depth, one on one with someone who believes in it. (and I don't mean making snide remarks on the internet)
Dude you are a tool, and I have absolutely no respect for you anymore.
FORD FLARESIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 02:28 PM   #115
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,689
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

I am thinking about not selling my futon to stevo because of this thread
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 02:31 PM   #116
steveo
In the band!
 
Join Date: 03-30-07
Location: montana/wyoming
Posts: 20,293
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FORD FLARESIDE View Post
So let me get this straight, in your words the "Bible" is an ancient book of Fairytales?

If so, answer these questions.
Have you ever read it?
If you have read it, have you researched it?
If you have researched it, have you discussed it in depth, one on one with someone who believes in it. (and I don't mean making snide remarks on the internet)
Dude you are a tool, and I have absolutely no respect for you anymore.
I have read the bible, discussed it in depth with my church group, at bible seminars, prayer revivals, etc.. I was very religious until my late teenage years. I traveled all over the us attending functions with friends of mine from the church. thankfully ignorant asshole like you are no longer allowed to put people on the rack for not having the same beliefs.

Last edited by steveo; November 6th, 2007 at 06:59 PM.
steveo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 02:36 PM   #117
FORD FLARESIDE
Someday, yeah Someday
 
FORD FLARESIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-09-06
Location: Comstock Park
Posts: 21,710
iTrader: (24)
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo View Post
go fukc a goat. I have read the bible, discussed it in depth with my church group, at bible seminars, prayer revivals, etc.. I was very religious until my late teenage years. I traveled all over the us attending functions with friends of mine from the church. thankfully ignorant asshole like you are no longer allowed to put people on the rack for not having the same beliefs. once more for the record, fuck you sodomite
So I guess you are not in need of my respect............ For some reason, I think you are stretching the truth a little, and I'm also guessing, you are pissed at the world because your mommy or your Grandma made you get up an go to church on Sunday, instead of being able to sleep in with your hang over.

Don't blame me, because you think you had a sucky child hood.

Mine was just fine, and yeah I do believe in "God's Word".

BTW hadden't ever thought about putting somebody on the rack, I'm actually pretty passive, but keep up the flamboyant literature..........who know's what could happen.
FORD FLARESIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 02:43 PM   #118
steveo
In the band!
 
Join Date: 03-30-07
Location: montana/wyoming
Posts: 20,293
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FORD FLARESIDE View Post
So I guess you are not in need of my respect............ For some reason, I think you are stretching the truth a little, and I'm also guessing, you are pissed at the world because your mommy or your Grandma made you get up an go to church on Sunday, instead of being able to sleep in with your hang over.

Don't blame me, because you think you had a sucky child hood.

Mine was just fine, and yeah I do believe in "God's Word".

BTW hadden't ever thought about putting somebody on the rack, I'm actually pretty passive, but keep up the flamboyant literature..........who know's what could happen.
your last couple of posts in this thread have come across as real passive. go ahead and call my childhood into question and call me a lair, since thats what a good Christian would do. my mother is a excellent woman, a christian and a wife of 23 years. she gave me the option of going to church, and if i didnt want to go she did not force me. for your sake, i hope there really is a God, because wouldn't that really suck if you were being a jerk in the name of a fairytale?

Last edited by steveo; November 6th, 2007 at 06:59 PM.
steveo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 02:52 PM   #119
FORD FLARESIDE
Someday, yeah Someday
 
FORD FLARESIDE's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-09-06
Location: Comstock Park
Posts: 21,710
iTrader: (24)
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveo View Post
your last couple of posts in this thread have come across as real passive. go ahead and call my childhood into question and call me a lair, since thats what a good Christian would do. my mother is a excellent woman, a christian and a wife of 23 years. she gave me the option of going to church, and if i didnt want to go she did not force me. for your sake, i hope there really is a God, because wouldn't that really suck if you were being a cocksucker in the name of a fairytale?
Show me in the Bible where I',m not to approach my attacker.........You first called the Bible a fairytale, you first brought your childhood up, when you exclaimed it was all for naught. You first attacked me when you declared something I believe in is a fairytale.

So, go call your Mom and tell her you love her, and give your mom's belief's a second chance. Because as you said, your mother is an excellent woman, a christian and a wife of 23 years. This to me means she deserves a lot of respect..................and son................calling "Her" belief's a "fairytale" is not giving her deserved respect.

That is all.
FORD FLARESIDE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2007, 03:04 PM   #120
steveo
In the band!
 
Join Date: 03-30-07
Location: montana/wyoming
Posts: 20,293
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FORD FLARESIDE View Post
Show me in the Bible where I',m not to approach my attacker.........You first called the Bible a fairytale, you first brought your childhood up, when you exclaimed it was all for naught. You first attacked me when you declared something I believe in is a fairytale.

So, go call your Mom and tell her you love her, and give your mom's belief's a second chance. Because as you said, your mother is an excellent woman, a christian and a wife of 23 years. This to me means she deserves a lot of respect..................and son................calling "Her" belief's a "fairytale" is not giving her deserved respect.

That is all.
I feel I am honoring her by using my mind and forming my own opinions and beliefs. she taught me to think for myself, and count on myself in my day to day life, but ask God for guidance. I talk to my mother everyday, as a matter of fact i often talk to her of my beliefs and of my conversations with kerwin. i spoke to her at 3ish today about this thread and kerwins futon. No matter what i believe, she still loves me just as much as she did when i was a christian. when it comes down to it, I am my own person, and i will believe what i believe no matter what other people think i should believe. when i state that i think that the bible is inaccurate and contains a healthy dose of bologna, i am not tearing apart your beliefs, just stating my own beliefs, no need to get all hot and bothered.
steveo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:31 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.51458 seconds with 81 queries