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View Poll Results: Does prayer work???
Prayer does not work, there is no god to listen. 15 17.05%
Prayer works, God hears us and moves. 48 54.55%
I am not sure, it seems to matter somehow though. 21 23.86%
Hug Cubetor. 4 4.55%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 2nd, 2007, 10:32 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.J.Hall View Post
At least half intelligence huh? Is that all you can do man is insults. I dint insult you. Come on, can your scientists prove god is not real? can your scientists prove hell is not real? Come on show us some facts.
It's pretty much impossible to prove that something doesn't exist.

And it's pretty much impossible to prove that prayer does or doesn't work. There is no way to shaow a direct "cause and effect" even if what is prayed for happens, and if it doesn't happen it gets explained away as "it was not Gods will"
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Old November 3rd, 2007, 12:40 AM   #82
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If god has her big plan, then why pray? Doesn't she already know what's going to happen? Also, why doesn't anyone pray for the suffering children? Has everyone just realized that it wont matter? Finally, why has nobody mentioned Darwin's supposed death bed confession that god was real? Has that finally been given up?




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Old November 3rd, 2007, 09:39 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Mongo View Post
If god has her big plan, then why pray? Doesn't she already know what's going to happen? Also, why doesn't anyone pray for the suffering children? Has everyone just realized that it wont matter? Finally, why has nobody mentioned Darwin's supposed death bed confession that god was real? Has that finally been given up?




Hi Dave
The Darwin repentance story is not fully accurate, the same way that we are unsure if Jimi Hendrix said that Phil Keaggy is the best guitarist in the world (who is also in concert tonight btw).

Why pray? You are not the first to ask. I attempted to explain a bit of the dynamic in my post a few back about our will vs. God's will. I do know this however, if God exists, and he makes everything work, you have to remember that he also TOLD us to pray. So it must fit into his ways. I disagree with you about how suffering children won't benefit.
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Old November 3rd, 2007, 09:53 AM   #84
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A buddy of mine found his Mother's diary, from WWII. She had been a young girl then, and it detailed the abuse she suffered at the hands of russian soldiers. They kept her in a farmhouse with other girls. She tried to escape, was shot in the chest. She lived to tell the tale, and her story is chilling. She talks about moving to the USA with an American Soldier that she married. (My Friend's Dad). They lived in Detroit for a while, then moved to Higgins Lake. It was like going to Heaven for her. Relatives came from Germany to visit, and were amazed at the beauty of the area and the lake. At the end of her writing, she says
"whoever reads this, remember one thing, that prayer always works. Evertime I was in trouble, I prayed, and it always worked"
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Old November 3rd, 2007, 11:12 AM   #85
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To know that God created man is one thing.
to claim that you can know that, is crazy. Having "faith" is one thing, but claiming that you "know" it makes me think you're nuts.
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Old November 3rd, 2007, 11:13 AM   #86
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A buddy of mine found his Mother's diary, from WWII. She had been a young girl then, and it detailed the abuse she suffered at the hands of russian soldiers. They kept her in a farmhouse with other girls. She tried to escape, was shot in the chest. She lived to tell the tale, and her story is chilling. She talks about moving to the USA with an American Soldier that she married. (My Friend's Dad). They lived in Detroit for a while, then moved to Higgins Lake. It was like going to Heaven for her. Relatives came from Germany to visit, and were amazed at the beauty of the area and the lake. At the end of her writing, she says
"whoever reads this, remember one thing, that prayer always works. Evertime I was in trouble, I prayed, and it always worked"
ok, i'm sold.
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Old November 3rd, 2007, 02:08 PM   #87
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to claim that you can know that, is crazy. Having "faith" is one thing, but claiming that you "know" it makes me think you're nuts.
Then I'm beyond crazy, because deep down inside me, I KNOW it's true.

The same way as when someone witness a miracle and they KNOW it was God.

I don't see anything nuts about that...
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Old November 3rd, 2007, 03:31 PM   #88
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The Darwin repentance story is not fully accurate, the same way that we are unsure if Jimi Hendrix said that Phil Keaggy is the best guitarist in the world (who is also in concert tonight btw).

Why pray? You are not the first to ask. I attempted to explain a bit of the dynamic in my post a few back about our will vs. God's will. I do know this however, if God exists, and he makes everything work, you have to remember that he also TOLD us to pray. So it must fit into his ways. I disagree with you about how suffering children won't benefit.
I said HI Dave!
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Old November 3rd, 2007, 03:37 PM   #89
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hug
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Old November 4th, 2007, 07:45 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
Then I'm beyond crazy, because deep down inside me, I KNOW it's true.

The same way as when someone witness a miracle and they KNOW it was God.

I don't see anything nuts about that...
You're not crazy, you're just confusing knowledge with belief. Knowledge is first hand experience of something.

It's impossible for you to know that God created man. You obviously believe that this is true, no question, but you can't know that it is true, here is why...

To have knowledge of man being created by God you would have to witness the creation first hand. You would have to be there to see it, smell it, feel it, hear it, or taste it (gross!). Since you are a man (I assume) then it is not possible to have been there to witness your own creation.

You may believe with 100% faith that it is true, but that isn't the same as knowing.

I agree with you in that science and God aren't at odds with each other. Science and religion are at odds with each other, however.

Last edited by 3-foot; November 4th, 2007 at 07:51 AM.
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Old November 4th, 2007, 09:37 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey View Post
Positive thoughts work, prayer does not.
What if you think positive thoughts for a bad situation I am in, does that have any effect? If so, do I also need to think positive, or just other people?
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Old November 4th, 2007, 10:28 PM   #92
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You're not crazy, you're just confusing knowledge with belief. Knowledge is first hand experience of something.
I believe that there is a knowledge that transcends faith.

I've learned a ton of things at school that I have not derived by hand but I accept as 'knowledge' (Just imagine if we tried to prove every little thing before we believed it!). Why, then, should I consider formulas, scientific laws, and such to be knowledge, but demote my own beliefs of God to '100% faithful'.

I'm saying that there is a point where you can be beyond '100% faithful' and KNOW in your heart that something is true.

(Think I'm crazy yet or do I need to go further?)
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Old November 5th, 2007, 08:14 AM   #93
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I would like to take a special opportunity to recognize a missed hello: "Hi Mongo!"
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Old November 5th, 2007, 09:32 AM   #94
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I can't tell you what I don't know, but what I do know is that I am a messed up person, I srew up ALL THE TIME. ask my wife!. with out prayer I would be who knows where. But I belive Deep down, with a sertinty like notthing else in my life that Prayer works and God cares...
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Old November 5th, 2007, 12:19 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
I believe that there is a knowledge that transcends faith.
What does that mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
I've learned a ton of things at school that I have not derived by hand but I accept as 'knowledge' (Just imagine if we tried to prove every little thing before we believed it!). Why, then, should I consider formulas, scientific laws, and such to be knowledge, but demote my own beliefs of God to '100% faithful'.
You accept them as knowledge, that is faith, faith that what you are told is true. No one said you had to prove something to be true to believe in it.

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Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
I'm saying that there is a point where you can be beyond '100% faithful' and KNOW in your heart that something is true.

(Think I'm crazy yet or do I need to go further?)

What I am saying is that you can't say you know something to be true unless you witnessed it. You can only say that you believe that it is true.

For the record, it's Mike who thinks you're crazy. I've only accused you of claiming to know something that you cannot know.
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Old November 5th, 2007, 04:12 PM   #96
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For the record, it's Mike who thinks you're crazy. I've only accused you of claiming to know something that you cannot know.
With regard to your first question: I believe that there is a point where you can go beyond faith and gain knowledge in something. For you, that may be when you prove something (or witness it) and then move it to that little section of your reasoning where you call it 'knowledge'.

But, even then, nothing of the earth is ever 100% anyway (because of uncertainty, randomness, and those crazy cases that you just can't rule out).

Alas, to make you happy I will retract my statement to say:

"I know that am 100% faithful in my knowledge of God's existence."


But deep down inside I still KNOW it.
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Old November 5th, 2007, 04:38 PM   #97
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What I am saying is that you can't say you know something to be true unless you witnessed it. You can only say that you believe that it is true.
So lets say I saw David Blaine do a magic trick where he made a bunny disappear. It is true only because I was there to see it myself?

Also, what if the eye witneses of Christ's life and death and resurrection wrote about it first hand and said documents were unchanged throught he course of history? Does THEIR eye witness testimony mean anything?
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Old November 5th, 2007, 11:06 PM   #98
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I would like to take a special opportunity to recognize a missed hello: "Hi Mongo!"
I was afraid that you were getting uppity.:tonka:
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Old November 5th, 2007, 11:21 PM   #99
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Old November 6th, 2007, 07:38 AM   #100
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What are you doing Dave?
Why would you ask this question to this group.................Lets talk in PM


What means: "Why would you ask this question to this group"???
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