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View Poll Results: Does prayer work???
Prayer does not work, there is no god to listen. 15 17.05%
Prayer works, God hears us and moves. 48 54.55%
I am not sure, it seems to matter somehow though. 21 23.86%
Hug Cubetor. 4 4.55%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 2nd, 2007, 09:04 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by magna-007 View Post
I believe we are given opportunities and have the choice or free will to take or not take those opportunities/paths if you will. You might pray for something and not even notice that god has given you some opportunity to achieve that. Instead a lot of people think oh, i will just pray for it and god will "make" it happen. That part i think is crap. You still have to make it happen yourself. You have to make a move. If its the right thing you may or may not be given that opportunity.

Good Words. I also think this is true.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 09:45 AM   #62
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heres my 2 cents (not that its super awesome just my ideas...take it or leave it)

I think The primary object of prayer is to know God better; we and our needs should come second (same is true about reading the bible)

I also know that prayer is WAY to powerful for God to let us have FULL control over. Like was said above We can srew up our lives all by our selfs.

I think God lets us use Prayer but it is HIS Tool, he gives it power or not...\
Think of the madness that would come if WE had total power to use such a weapon as prayer...

James 5 :13-15
Are you hurting? Pray. Do you feel great? Sing. Are you sick? Call the church leaders together to pray and anoint you with oil in the name of Jesus. Believing-prayer will heal you, and Jesus will put you on your feet. And if you've sinned, you'll be forgiven—healed inside and out.

16-18Make this your common practice: Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you can live together whole and healed. The prayer of a person living right with God is something powerful to be reckoned with. Elijah, for instance, human just like us, prayed hard that it wouldn't rain, and it didn't—not a drop for three and a half years. Then he prayed that it would rain, and it did. The showers came and everything started growing again.

19-20My dear friends, if you know people who have wandered off from God's truth, don't write them off. Go after them. Get them back and you will have rescued precious lives from destruction and prevented an epidemic of wandering away from God.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 09:46 AM   #63
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Prayer and Faith go hand in hand.
If you don't have Faith, Prayer is not going to work for you.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 10:06 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by FORD FLARESIDE View Post
Prayer and Faith go hand in hand.
If you don't have Faith, Prayer is not going to work for you.
x23353654547
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 11:25 AM   #65
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Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God is essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion on an intelligent and powerful Being."

Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Sorry, you're being lied to, you need a better source. Just to back up what CC is saying about Einstein, here is what the man himself said.

Einstein quotes:

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever. This is a somewhat new kind of religion."

"I have never imputed to nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic. What I see in nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism. "

"The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naive."


.....Clearly, Einstein did not believe in God.

That being said, I think prayer can work sometimes. I don't think it's because God answers prayers, but because the person who is praying believes so strongly that the prayer will work that it does work. It's a rare case that this happens, yes, but the power of the human mind and body can be strong when it comes to healing itself.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 11:39 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by FORD FLARESIDE View Post
Prayer and Faith go hand in hand.
If you don't have Faith, Prayer is not going to work for you.
What bugs me about this is that I have seen some people have faith in a god before they even have faith in themselves. These people I have known seem to fail miserably. They did pray alot too.......
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 01:02 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post
Sorry, you're being lied to, you need a better source. Just to back up what CC is saying about Einstein, here is what the man himself said.

Einstein quotes:

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever. This is a somewhat new kind of religion."

"I have never imputed to nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic. What I see in nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism. "

"The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naive."


.....Clearly, Einstein did not believe in God.

That being said, I think prayer can work sometimes. I don't think it's because God answers prayers, but because the person who is praying believes so strongly that the prayer will work that it does work. It's a rare case that this happens, yes, but the power of the human mind and body can be strong when it comes to healing itself.

Lol. thanks for the backup, but its not even worth it Nobody can possibly TRULY believe in science as well as religion at the same time. Its one or the other.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 01:07 PM   #68
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you all should go here http://www.ministriesofjmw.com/...

read the story about Jason...

God is REAL. I AM TELLING YOU HE'S REAL
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 01:10 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
you all should go here http://www.ministriesofjmw.com/...

read the story about Jason...

God is REAL. I AM TELLING YOU HE'S REAL
from the website:

"The counter to the side is ticking off the number of people who have died since you opened this webpage. The vast majority of those people are entering Hell"




I sometimes feel sorry for people who believe this.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 01:24 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
from the website:

"The counter to the side is ticking off the number of people who have died since you opened this webpage. The vast majority of those people are entering Hell"




I sometimes feel sorry for people who believe this.
One day God will talk to you and make you realize how stupid you sound and look right now. So im gonna wait tell than to reply to anything else that you say that doesnt make any since.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 01:33 PM   #71
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I don't like to comment on here too much, and I am a very laid back person. If you believe in God ( which i do ) the you know God gave us free will to make our own decisions and choices, and the biggest choice he gave us was - If he exists or not. I have seen a lot in the past few years that really questions this and yet I choose to believe. There is no hard proof prayer works, nor is there hard proof it does not work. only faith is there for us. You can name off every famous Christian or Non Believer out there, what really matters is if you believe or not. Until you die you will not know. So theres no need to flame each others intelligence or throw out educations. if you believe good, if not well thats your choice. Just put it this way. If you don't believe and there is a God then, well the worst parts in the bible.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 01:41 PM   #72
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Prayer does work. I've seen concrete proof of it in my own life as well as the lives of those around me that I pray for.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 01:52 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by A.J.Hall View Post
I admit I may be stupid sometimes. But I pray all the time. For my family and friends. For people with cancer and sick people. But I hardly ever pray for myself. And never pray for money. And I have had a few times when I think prayer worked.
Does prayer only work if you come from God? Or does it work if you're black too?
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 02:12 PM   #74
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What bugs me about this is that I have seen some people have faith in a god before they even have faith in themselves. These people I have known seem to fail miserably. They did pray alot too.......
I personally have faith in God BEFORE myself. I will fail, God will not. It would be non-sensical and idolatrous to place myself on the throne of worship. If the people you know failed, it is because they are human, not because they trust God. With anything, there is responsibility of man, and responsibility of God. Hence the phrase "believe in God, but continue to row to shore"
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 02:31 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by MedicJayCook View Post
I don't like to comment on here too much, and I am a very laid back person. If you believe in God ( which i do ) the you know God gave us free will to make our own decisions and choices, and the biggest choice he gave us was - If he exists or not. I have seen a lot in the past few years that really questions this and yet I choose to believe. There is no hard proof prayer works, nor is there hard proof it does not work. only faith is there for us. You can name off every famous Christian or Non Believer out there, what really matters is if you believe or not. Until you die you will not know. So theres no need to flame each others intelligence or throw out educations. if you believe good, if not well thats your choice. Just put it this way. If you don't believe and there is a God then, well the worst parts in the bible.
That is a very good post, and I agree 100% about the free choice.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 02:45 PM   #76
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I am in agreement with MedicJay too, the conversation got away from the topic, way to bring it back.

I never got into the proof of prayer because it is unseen and cannot be shown with fact.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 03:05 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
Nobody can possibly TRULY believe in science as well as religion at the same time. Its one or the other.
I really beg to differ on this one.

We had a guest speaker in a Presbyterian Church I belonged to when I was back in high school who was basically stating what you said, but from a religious standpoint.

I, a scruffy young lad who was reading books by/of Einstein/Hawking/String Theory/ect..., encountered him after the service and we spoke for a few hours about it. I chose to see science and religion as one would view "A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte" by Georges Seurat.

From a distance (without science) the image (God's creations) looks normal/familiar/comfortable, but, when you look a lot closer (study science) you can see all of the little details and the amazing precision involved in the creation of the masterpiece (God's work).

To know that God created man is one thing.

To know how man functions and to be aware of the millions of processes that have to work perfectly in order for a man to exist/grow/survive (and not even getting into the miracle of childbirth) and then know that God created all of that PERFECTLY...THAT'S amazing.

I don't think there has to be a division between religion and science. I think science further glorifies God by showing the amount of fine detail that he put into his work.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 03:31 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
If I were to rank you in intelligence, on a 1-10 scale, I would choose between 1.3 and 1.4
I don't have any scientists, so I cannot answer your question


And for the record, people don't set out to prove something doesn't exist, people prove something does. Show me proof that prayer works, and I will believe you :)
wow. i know prayer works. the reason i know is that when i first joined this on line 4x4 group i prayed that God use me in the way that would glorify his name. in reading this i realize that prayer was answered because you asked the question, do we think prayer works. it may be alot of other individuals curiosity also, as to if it works or not and just didn't place it on the forum. See, clarkstoncracker, its all about faith and belief in God. truthfully it isn't up to me or any one else to prove that it works or not. for the people that have taken Christ as their savior, they have faith and believe that whatever happens,good and bad, that it is all on the path that God has pre-set for us. unfortunatly your question required an answer based on fact, and prayer isn't about that. it's truly about belief and faith. My life has had enough strife and challanges in it, that if prayer did not work, and faith in the Lord were not present, and i had't taken him as my savior,.......if i wasn't already dead i would be quickly on my way. I'm not going to talk down to anyone who is questioning prayer, God, and the like. in fact i'm going to pray for them and that God continue's to use me as a tool for glorifying his name.

as far as scientist go, you had mentioned that you did not think scientists believed in prayer. Scientists have to have tangible proof to believe something is true or exists. then why did you state later on people set out to provide proof that something does work vs does not work. Would that not mean then that scientists actually have a goal to prove that prayer did work rather than did not work? Mabey scientists are actually have a sub-consious need to reveal something truly devine and holy.

I think that this all rests on the fact that it is our first and natural instinct as humans to go the path of least resistence. It is easier to believe in something tangible. the whole concept of "i got to see it to believe it" is faithless in its origin. it is for this fact that so many people are non-believers because it is easy. standing for faith and belief, not proof, walking in the path of God and witnessing to others that do not have faith and that he is our savior is one of the toughest things that can be done in ones life.

Last edited by toast; November 2nd, 2007 at 04:19 PM. Reason: more to say
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 04:31 PM   #79
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Positive thoughts work, prayer does not. Numerous studies have been done in hospitals plenty of times. Prayer had no effect on patients and in most cases it had a worse effect because people lost faith in the hospital and doctors.

Staying positive and having positive thoughts has been proven over and over again to have a very real effect on health and healing. So, if prayers are positive then I guess prayer helps in an indirect way. Still, positive thought is at the source.
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Old November 2nd, 2007, 07:52 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by General Lee View Post
I really beg to differ on this one.

We had a guest speaker in a Presbyterian Church I belonged to when I was back in high school who was basically stating what you said, but from a religious standpoint.

I, a scruffy young lad who was reading books by/of Einstein/Hawking/String Theory/ect..., encountered him after the service and we spoke for a few hours about it. I chose to see science and religion as one would view "A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte" by Georges Seurat.

From a distance (without science) the image (God's creations) looks normal/familiar/comfortable, but, when you look a lot closer (study science) you can see all of the little details and the amazing precision involved in the creation of the masterpiece (God's work).

To know that God created man is one thing.

To know how man functions and to be aware of the millions of processes that have to work perfectly in order for a man to exist/grow/survive (and not even getting into the miracle of childbirth) and then know that God created all of that PERFECTLY...THAT'S amazing.

I don't think there has to be a division between religion and science. I think science further glorifies God by showing the amount of fine detail that he put into his work.
X2
There are numerous present day scientists that believe in God's existence, as well as those from our past.
If those are not enough references I have plenty more :miff:
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