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Old October 25th, 2007, 10:11 AM   #1
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This is a hypothetical scenario. Lets say a major U.S. OEM made a ľ - Ĺ ton 4x4 pickup. Then they offered it with a V6 gasser or a 4cyl turbo diesel with a 5 speed manual, and a single or extended cab option. Now letís say they equipped it with a solid front axle and electric lockers in an off-road package that would include fender flares, lift, and wider axles (think S10 ZR2). All this plus the modern amenities that make owning a new car/truck great, like on board navigation, premium Bose sound system, electric and power everything, heated power seats, heated mirrors, ect. Think of 300FT LBS of torque and 30MPG economy (diesel) and the ability to run bio or veggie with great off-road characteristics. What would you pay for a truck like this, and what other items would you want standard? Would you even want a truck like this?
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Old October 25th, 2007, 10:17 AM   #2
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Personally no. I wont own anything under a 3/4 ton anymore for towing and hauling. Now, if your a "truck" person and looking for even a DD and dont want a car. IF, it got 30 mpg and was reasonable priced, yeah. I might look at it for a daily driver. Probably wouldnt tow or off road it. I like the diesel option. Wish more had that. Offer an automatic too though. Make it reliable and cheaper than say the Colorado and it might go. Kinda sounds like a Colorado but with a diesel option. The Colo is not a bad truck just to drive. Not very good on mpg though.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 10:32 AM   #3
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It is an awful shame that so many foreign OEM's are banging out the smaller diesels and within our U.S. OEM market I can think of only one 4x4 4cyl diesel offering, and the motor isn’t even made here. What a shame. I don’t want/need a goliath with a 500FTLB monster diesel. I tow cars, boats, and junk not houses. I will take the towing pull of the 4cyl turbo diesel and the fuel economy of a 4cyl gasser though....

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Old October 25th, 2007, 10:35 AM   #4
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Yeah, I'd be interested in a little pickup with nice options lifted and locked from the factory. The diesel idea isnt' that far out, I think shortly we're going to see a lot more vehicles with diesel options. We're already seeing more and more diesel cars and jeeps getting CRD.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 11:00 AM   #5
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The vehicle you described above will not hit those MPG + power requirements with the other items you listed, with todays crash + emissions standards.

That diesel 4 cyl 4x4 also got cancelled because it doesn't meet 07 emissions laws (plus it was a POS)....There's a few diesel 6 cyl 4x4s on the market, but they aren't hitting the MPGs they should be, and the motor is cost prohibitive.

I fully expect that type of 1/4 ton truck to bow in in the 2012-2014 time frame provided the 2010 launch of 4-liter class half ton diesels do not have significant issues.

All major manufacturer launching 1/2 tons with diesels at ~MY10. A 4 cyl diesel isn't enough for a half ton, which are upwards of 5000 lbs. There are a lot of other diesel applications coming up.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 11:04 AM   #6
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Your so impressive with you mad interweb skillz haggar

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Old October 25th, 2007, 11:33 AM   #7
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Your so impressive with you mad interweb skillz haggar
It gets boring here at work. Meijers doesn't get a lot of traffic during weekdays, so I don't sell many of these cellphones. So I surf the net all day. Its amazing what you can learn by reading websites.

Last edited by Haggar; October 25th, 2007 at 11:36 AM.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 11:38 AM   #8
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It gets boring here at work. Meijers doesn't get a lot of traffic during weekdays, so I don't sell many of these cellphones. So I surf the net all day. Its amazing what you can learn by reading websites.
Yea... same here lol im deleting my text messages on my phone rite now thats my excitement lol 762 messages! Never seen an inbox this big!
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Old October 25th, 2007, 11:42 AM   #9
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A little 4 cyl CAT motor would be cool. Mechanic buddy of mine had a point one time. He said the emissions are whats killing the detsals right now. But he also said that the exhaust of a diesel is heavier than that of a gas motor. Technically not leaving it in the air, but rather falls to the ground. So does that meas we are gaining by not polluting the air as bad, but in turn dumping extra contams on the ground. This is a question to all you guys, cause I really dont know.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 11:45 AM   #10
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A little 4 cyl CAT motor would be cool. Mechanic buddy of mine had a point one time. He said the emissions are whats killing the detsals right now. But he also said that the exhaust of a diesel is heavier than that of a gas motor. Technically not leaving it in the air, but rather falls to the ground. So does that meas we are gaining by not polluting the air as bad, but in turn dumping extra contams on the ground. This is a question to all you guys, cause I really dont know.

Diesel exhaust has a high particulate content(soot, more or less), that is what you are talking about. At least accoding to the encylcopedias we have over in the book department. I walked over there to look on my break..
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Old October 25th, 2007, 11:50 AM   #11
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Thats exactly what my buddy was saying. The particulates are heavier, so they fall rather quickly and don't tend to stay in the air like gas exhaust particles. But in turn are we just polluting the ground and water more. I don't know. Personally i think diesels are cool as hell and wish all mine were diesel.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 11:52 AM   #12
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Diesel exhaust has a high particulate content(soot, more or less), that is what you are talking about. At least accoding to the encylcopedias we have over in the book department. I walked over there to look on my break..
So why has no manufacturer used a CAT motor? Or why have none of the others gone to using Cummins? I mean, you cant beat a Cummins diesel for pullin power. Yeah, the Duramax is bad ass all chipped out and would woop on a Cummins.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 12:29 PM   #13
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i'd buy one, provided i could also get the bare bones model

Solid axel
base sound system
5-speed
no a/c, no power anything, rubber floor mats, cloth bench seat.
steel wheels, no navigation system, no heated/power mirrors.
you know, do without anything that would make it "luxury"
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Old October 25th, 2007, 12:30 PM   #14
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So why has no manufacturer used a CAT motor? Or why have none of the others gone to using Cummins? I mean, you cant beat a Cummins diesel for pullin power. Yeah, the Duramax is bad ass all chipped out and would woop on a Cummins.
Lots of reasons. And it won't necessarily remain that way.

GMs had arrangements with detroit diesel, then isuzu, Ford is tied to International/Navistar, Dodge has been using Cummins for the big one, mercedes, VW, VM Motori, etc for smaller diesels.

Keep in mind that a cummins is a monster, in size. Its designed for light-medium trucks. In a dodge ram, it adds a ton of weight and stress.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 01:09 PM   #15
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Cat is the big dog of big dogs. That’s why we have them in MTVR's (C12), FMTV's (C10), and the un-released versions (C15), but yea way too much for anything in the way of a civilian passenger vehicle (other than a bus).... Low sulfur fuels and whako EPA requirements are killing the possibilities with diesel. I personally would love to see veggie at the pump and maybe some other nice fuel alternatives. The diesel technology is having a hard time keeping up with the EPA. Diesels have traditionally relied upon mechanical injection/timing, which works but is no where near as accurate as is needed to meet the latest environmental requirements. Piezo fuel injector (use crystals/electricity) technology and cheaper electronics hopefully will motivate the US OEM's to pursue some new ideas with diesel. I had heard rumors that the Duramax (Isuzu) may get a couple cylinders chopped off and dropped into some smaller gear, but it’s been a while and I haven’t heard anything. The best bang for the buck as far as MPG-to torque is concerned has to go to the 4cyl turbo diesel. Not to mention the fact it will out live its gas burning equivalent (in torque) by a substantial margin.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 01:27 PM   #16
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Cat is the big dog of big dogs. Thatís why we have them in MTVR's (C12), FMTV's (C10), and the un-released versions (C15), but yea way too much for anything in the way of a civilian passenger vehicle (other than a bus).... Low sulfur fuels and whako EPA requirements are killing the possibilities with diesel. I personally would love to see veggie at the pump and maybe some other nice fuel alternatives. The diesel technology is having a hard time keeping up with the EPA. Diesels have traditionally relied upon mechanical injection/timing, which works but is no where near as accurate as is needed to meet the latest environmental requirements. Piezo fuel injector (use crystals/electricity) technology and cheaper electronics hopefully will motivate the US OEM's to pursue some new ideas with diesel. I had heard rumors that the Duramax (Isuzu) may get a couple cylinders chopped off and dropped into some smaller gear, but itís been a while and I havenít heard anything. The best bang for the buck as far as MPG-to torque is concerned has to go to the 4cyl turbo diesel. Not to mention the fact it will out live its gas burning equivalent (in torque) by a substantial margin.

A few notes:

Duramax isn't Isuzu, anymore

Caterpillar is working on small autmotive based projects.

V6 Duramax, 4.4 liter Rover Diesel V8, 4.X liter Cummins will all be bowing in, in ~2 model years, in the Big 3 half tons. Not a rumor. We are working on a LOT mroe than just those 3.. here at Meijers, that is...
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Old October 25th, 2007, 01:56 PM   #17
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I would LOVE to see Cat do 2-3L TD. If they used there compound series set up (obviously application downsized) that would be crazy. Emissions are a big part of why they started the compound set ups, but the power potential is a huge benefit. They actually factory adjust the WG on the HP turbine and it’s pretty much a tamper proof deal (or intercept/modify WG signal PSI). If they do a 4 banger I imagine they will most likely go big AR with a variable vane due to cost and availability. I think everyone would agree that seeing a US OEM do a viable smaller displacement TD would be pretty kick ass. Man if the Libo CRD wasn’t such a turd life would be good.
My wife drags me to her house in Australia all the time, about once a year, and man you would just crap all over yourself if you saw all the cool junk everybody else gets.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 02:44 PM   #18
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I would LOVE to see Cat do 2-3L TD. If they used there compound series set up (obviously application downsized) that would be crazy. Emissions are a big part of why they started the compound set ups, but the power potential is a huge benefit. They actually factory adjust the WG on the HP turbine and itís pretty much a tamper proof deal (or intercept/modify WG signal PSI). If they do a 4 banger I imagine they will most likely go big AR with a variable vane due to cost and availability. I think everyone would agree that seeing a US OEM do a viable smaller displacement TD would be pretty kick ass. Man if the Libo CRD wasnít such a turd life would be good.
My wife drags me to her house in Australia all the time, about once a year, and man you would just crap all over yourself if you saw all the cool junk everybody else gets.
In My capacity selling cell phones at Meijers, I travel to most continents and work with OEMs all over the world. My current program, I'm working with Sweden, Melbourne, Germany, Shanghai, and here in Detroit. I worked on the 2.2td PT cruisers for the euro market.

Actually, I recent got rid of a 2006 2.0TDI VW motor(138hp/238 ft-lbs), was cluttering up the garage...
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Old October 25th, 2007, 03:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by albersondh View Post
I would LOVE to see Cat do 2-3L TD. If they used there compound series set up (obviously application downsized) that would be crazy. Emissions are a big part of why they started the compound set ups, but the power potential is a huge benefit. They actually factory adjust the WG on the HP turbine and itís pretty much a tamper proof deal (or intercept/modify WG signal PSI). If they do a 4 banger I imagine they will most likely go big AR with a variable vane due to cost and availability. I think everyone would agree that seeing a US OEM do a viable smaller displacement TD would be pretty kick ass. Man if the Libo CRD wasnít such a turd life would be good.
My wife drags me to her house in Australia all the time, about once a year, and man you would just crap all over yourself if you saw all the cool junk everybody else gets.

i know what we're missing. I've been surfing co.uk sites lately.
you can get a chrysler minivan that has a standard transmission, infact the only things that don't have standard transmissions are luxery cars.
I love it. you guys ever checkout the european focus? i think it looks way more badass than the us one, you can also get it in a 2.5litre I5 that is turboed putting out like 220hp with a 6 speed transmission.
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Old October 25th, 2007, 03:01 PM   #20
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Maybe I should quit my job over here at Sears and join the ranks at Meijer, maybe I could be a bagger, I doubt they would want me. You sure do get to travel a lot and do neat things. I had a job like that once but people kept shooting at me so I don’t do that anymore. Im sure you are very proud of yourself, I know I am.
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