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Old March 7th, 2006, 12:25 PM   #1
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Default A kitchen electical question

Does a over the range micowave have to be on its own line or can it be tied in to the outlet for the stove? Also for the dishwasher can it go to the same outlet as the garbage dissposal or does it have to be on it's own?

Its a gas stove so it's a 110 outlet not 220.
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Old March 7th, 2006, 12:28 PM   #2
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mine is the same (range/microwave). for some reason the dishwasher in my house has a dedicated circuit. Not sure why though
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Old March 7th, 2006, 12:43 PM   #3
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I'm having all of that added in a couple of weeks and the cabnit guy told my wife that the microwave had to be on it's own. I can't figure out why that would be.
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Old March 7th, 2006, 12:51 PM   #4
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I expect that since it's a 110 outlet, it's probably not powering just the stove. Most likely, it shares with some of the other outlets, creating possibility of an overload throwing a microwave on with say, the stove, the coffeemaker, the blender, the waffle iron... Usual dedicated 110 circuits are dishwasher, fridge, furnace... I know that at my place, we don't have a breaker just for the stove.
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Old March 7th, 2006, 12:55 PM   #5
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microwave is usually dedicated because of its high amp draw, same with stove, refrigerator and dishwasher, the dishwasher should be a Ground fault outlet as well. Whether its code I am not positive, I believe that Shiawassee county it is. If your fridge has water and ice in the door i believe that has to be GF as well.
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Old March 7th, 2006, 12:57 PM   #6
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kitchen should be yellow wire (20A) and If I remember correctly, each major appliance should be on it's own circuit.

CC will chime in eventually, I know that he knows the codes.
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Old March 7th, 2006, 12:57 PM   #7
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If it is a gas stove, then all you need for 110v is just to run the lights, clock ect. If this is the case, the microwave and the stove could share the same 110v.
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Old March 7th, 2006, 01:00 PM   #8
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Dishwasher's on it's own circuit so if it leaks and goes apeshit, it trips ASAP... Not to mention the hellafied amperage draw that the heating element takes. My house is going on 40, so it's pre-date GFI outlets/GFI breakers, but normally, anywhere wet, kitchen, bathroom, outdoor, would be GFI protected... I don't know about the disposal and dishwasher being on the same circuit, while I don't see that being an issue, there's most likely something in the electrical code that says you go straight to hell for doing so... I can't recall if the disposal is on a seperate circuit or not from other kitchen outlets, now that I think about it, it ate one too many forks and no longer works, so it's a moot point.
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Old March 7th, 2006, 01:12 PM   #9
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code says you need a dedicated circuit for a microwave.

there is no way that that stove circuit (which just powers the ignitors and the clock) is a dedicated circuit.

No electrician would do that.

It is probably tied into some general use plugs, and nuisance tripping will become common if you were to share that circuit.

Circuit breakers protect the wiring.

Kitchen circuits are 20amp, and the rest of your house will be 15 amps.
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Old March 7th, 2006, 01:16 PM   #10
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Hmm, lemme think for a second, as I brought my kitchen up to code..

In general you need 7 circuits for the average kitchen:

20 Amp: General Lighting and receptacles (not counter top)
20 Amp GFCI: Countertop receptacles #1
20 Amp GFCI: Countertop receptacles #2

Electric Range is usually 50 amp/220v, Not sure with a gas stove..

15 or 20 amp: Refrigerator

15 amp: Disposer
15 amp: dishwasher

OR 20 amp disposer + dishwasher

20 Amp: Microwave/range hood

Yeah, I an pretty sure thats correct. We have 7 circuits, with the 20 amp paired disposer/dishwasher.

So, yeah, usually it needs a dedicated 20 amp circuit.
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Old March 7th, 2006, 01:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker
code says you need a dedicated circuit for a microwave.

there is no way that that stove circuit (which just powers the ignitors and the clock) is a dedicated circuit.

No electrician would do that.

It is probably tied into some general use plugs, and nuisance tripping will become common if you were to share that circuit.

Circuit breakers protect the wiring.

Kitchen circuits are 20amp, and the rest of your house will be 15 amps.
Thanks everyone this is what I was looking for.
Will I need a dedicated ciruit for the dish washer or can that share the disposal line?
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Old March 7th, 2006, 01:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker
code says you need a dedicated circuit for a microwave.

there is no way that that stove circuit (which just powers the ignitors and the clock) is a dedicated circuit.

No electrician would do that.

It is probably tied into some general use plugs, and nuisance tripping will become common if you were to share that circuit.

Circuit breakers protect the wiring.

Kitchen circuits are 20amp, and the rest of your house will be 15 amps.
Well, bathroom circuits are also supposed to be dedicated 20 amp gfci, usually mechanicals such as sump pump, furnace, etc, too. And 15 amps are acceptable for some of the kitchen lines, as noted.

I just pulled 12 gage for everything in our house.
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Old March 7th, 2006, 01:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
Hmm, lemme think for a second, as I brought my kitchen up to code..

In general you need 7 circuits for the average kitchen:

20 Amp: General Lighting and receptacles (not counter top)
20 Amp GFCI: Countertop receptacles #1
20 Amp GFCI: Countertop receptacles #2

Electric Range is usually 50 amp/220v, Not sure with a gas stove..

15 or 20 amp: Refrigerator

15 amp: Disposer
15 amp: dishwasher

OR 20 amp disposer + dishwasher

20 Amp: Microwave/range hood

Yeah, I an pretty sure thats correct. We have 7 circuits, with the 20 amp paired disposer/dishwasher.

So, yeah, usually it needs a dedicated 20 amp circuit.

not to be a dick, but none of what you posted relates at all to the NEC or michigans builders code in the least bit.

Especially disposer + dishwasher on one circuit.

code makes it VERY clear that you can not have two motors sharing a circuit, EVER...

You can't even share two 1/8th horsepower motors.

I'm sure you know all about locked rotor amperage...
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Old March 7th, 2006, 01:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBM
Will I need a dedicated ciruit for the dish washer or can that share the disposal line?
See my first post.
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Old March 7th, 2006, 01:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker
not to be a dick, but none of what you posted relates at all to the NEC or michigans builders code in the least bit.

Especially disposer + dishwasher on one circuit.

code makes it VERY clear that you can not have two motors sharing a circuit.


I guess I better give my green stickers back.
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Old March 7th, 2006, 01:26 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
Well, bathroom circuits are also supposed to be dedicated 20 amp gfci, usually mechanicals such as sump pump, furnace, etc, too. And 15 amps are acceptable for some of the kitchen lines, as noted.

I just pulled 12 gage for everything in our house.
every single GFI in a house has to be a 20amp circuit.

and by code, any motor, sump pump, furnace, garage door opener, or even a vent fan has to be a dedicated circuit.
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Old March 7th, 2006, 01:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar


I guess I better give my green stickers back.

electrical inspectors = the joke.

Especially contractors like us, with a good reputation.. Usually meeting with an inspector means talking about his latest golf trip in the parking lot, and him handing me a green sticker.
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Old March 7th, 2006, 01:32 PM   #18
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It's funny how much the codes change over the years...

Our house was built in 1968, the addition on the 2nd floor over the garage was built in 1988. The subtle differences, like the distance between outlets in a room, or the amount of circuits required for this, that, and the other... I think the main house and the addition are equal on circuit breakers in the box, granted, the addition has a kitchen, bathroom, furnace, and laundry up there too, but still...

The place that I was living was built in 55, wow... Microwave and fridge on 1 circuit, somewhere between 8 and 10 outlets/lights on the same breaker... Electrical usage was less back then, no computers and such, but still, damn! I guess that's what happens when an entire subdivision goes up in a week, and Madison Heights has been well known for a bit of bribery to the inspectors making everything allright back in the day...
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Old March 7th, 2006, 01:42 PM   #19
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My house was built in 1946 I have had to do a lot of updating.
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Old March 7th, 2006, 01:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker
electrical inspectors = the joke.

Especially contractors like us, with a good reputation.. Usually meeting with an inspector means talking about his latest golf trip in the parking lot, and him handing me a green sticker.
CC, I have been doing wiring in houses for quite a while. My father and uncle helped. Between the two, they have 50 years licensed.


One thing I know is that its VERY common for local ordinances to amend the national blanket codes, whether its plumbing, electrical, or building (I have done all 3 professionally at one time..).

And one of the most common ones you'll see is this:

Exhibit C to Ordinance 2005-
Adopt the 2002 National Electric Code with the following Amendments: 2002 National Electrical Code. Chapter 1 No changes Chapter 2 Sec. 210.5. Add subsection (C) to read: (C) Ungrounded Conductors. Branch circuits shall conform to the following color code: VoltsPhaseSystemPhase APhase BPhase C120/208 3 WYE Black Red Blue 277/480 3 WYE Brown Orange Yellow 120/240 3 DELTA Black Orange Red Exception No. 1: The above color coding is not required in residential occupancies. Exception No. 2: Industrial occupancies holding a Registered Plant Permit may use their own coding system. Exception No. 3: Additions to an existing electrical system, where an acceptable color coding system exists, the existing color coding system shall be continued. Sec. 210.11(C). Add Item (4) to read: (4) Dishwasher and Garbage Disposer Branch Circuits-Dwelling Units. In residential occupancies, dishwasher and garbage disposer may be on the same 20-ampere branch circuit. Sec. 220.37. Add section to read: Sec. 220.37. Optional Calculation Non-dwelling Unit Occupancies. The calculation of feeder or service load in non-dwelling unit occupancies shall be permitted to be calculated in accordance with Table 220.37 in lieu of Part II of this article. This section shall not apply to calculations performed under Sections 220.34, 220.35, or 220.36. Calculations for this section shall be prepared by a registered electrical engineer.
Page 1 of 6


In the case of Orion Township, that itemized list I posted previously is 100% correct(at least at the time of remodleling in 2000).

I'm well aware of inspections. Again, I have several years as a contractor/foreman.

In my case, I sat with the inspector(a private contractor for electrical, Orion TWP only employees building inspectors, but not plumbing/electrical, to my knowledge), reviewed the schematics, and checked every circuit, every receptacle. Guy was one of the pickiest I saw. He failed me, actually, the first time, as I missed plugging two wire holes with fiberglass for firestop.


My advice, as stated, is check with your local township, as they are the ones you need to appease.
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