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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:21 PM   #61
clarkstoncracker
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
But, regardless of how much or how little a person does, I am firm believer that just adding to the $$$$ pool and pure numbers makes a big difference.
especially when you approach elected officials saying you have xxxx members behind you.

For some reason that makes them your friend :tonka:
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:22 PM   #62
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And to answer liv2mx. By you cancelling that trail ride, it does a lot more damage to the sport then you can every imagine. You lost, all over 75 bucks and a couple hours of your time marking a map that you already said you had possesion.

Pretty stupid move if you ask me.

My favorite was your excuse that the ranger didn't send you the application, even though their right on the website ready to be downloaded for anybody.


And it somewhat pisses me off that you turned that whole thing around to the ranger, and how it was his fault on warning you prior to you receiving many tickets.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:23 PM   #63
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I have read all 110 pages of the BLM Plan for Moab. I have been to Moab and visited many of the places slated for closure / significant control.
Okay I say he's paid his dues. That thing gave me a POUNDING headache for hours reading it.

Seriously, I hope you consider re-joining the GLFWDA...you must have joined long before I did, but my experience with them thus far has been good. They really do care, and are trying to effectively make changes. There are a LOT of big challenges facing Michigan (you know this) and it could mean the difference of walking into a meeting with the backing of 999 people...or 1,000. You're smart, you get the point.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:24 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Nick In Cali View Post
You know what I like about you? You can express yourself very well. Problem is, the point is being lost by pointing fingers. The purpose of this thread ENTIRELY is to get people to look inside and ask themselves, what are they doing to help? If your post is to make Kelly think about his own efforts, then very well. But if it's to point blame...then I'd say remove it.

I don't know your real name...but I'm being honest. I WANT to help you when I move back to Michigan to make this run an annual, possibly sponsored event. I've got a shi-tton of ideas to help, things that will require effort and planning. I just hope I don't get home too late and things are too far gone.

As for CC putting up a kitty, I think that would somehow make him liable. Not sure...

I will admit that I'm guilty of not going on ANY trail runs in Michigan to help with clean-up, pay for permits, confront & report DNR/COs... the stuff you and I have traded (productive) jabs about in the last few weeks. I do have a passion for the Michigan trail system and I'm waiting for someone to ask "what the f*ck do you care, you're not even here!?" The passion is that I am a Michigan resident, we do have a beautiful state, and I want to be able to use it just like my father and grandfather did...more importantly...some day I want to take my grandkids out in my 74 CJ.
I am glad you got that impression from this thread. I got the same thing out of it. It made me think. My point I was trying to get at earlier in this thread was hoping to spark some more interest in this area, as I am guessing that there are more people down here on this coast that would be interested in wheeling/working on our more local trails. It is easy for someone to say to get involved when there is a club down the street and trails near by to use and take care of, but when there isn't anything close, it is obviously not as easy to use them or moreso, take care of them. I would be more than happy to get involved and help take care of the local trails (one hour away) if I could find others willing to work/play. There really aren't any clubs over here that suit most's needs.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:39 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by KartRacer View Post
I am glad you got that impression from this thread. I got the same thing out of it. It made me think. My point I was trying to get at earlier in this thread was hoping to spark some more interest in this area, as I am guessing that there are more people down here on this coast that would be interested in wheeling/working on our more local trails. It is easy for someone to say to get involved when there is a club down the street and trails near by to use and take care of, but when there isn't anything close, it is obviously not as easy to use them or moreso, take care of them. I would be more than happy to get involved and help take care of the local trails (one hour away) if I could find others willing to work/play. There really aren't any clubs over here that suit most's needs.
Problem is... I F*cked it up.

That's not the point of this thread. Not even close. Kelly was trying to find out from the public the reason people don't get more involved. He's trying to focus his efforts on finding the why and then addressing that. I think he wanted responses like: "I live too far away from any trails" or "Nobody posts what clean-ups are going and when" or "I think dues to join clubs are too high and I don't see any results from it". Stuff like that. I just got VERY angry earlier about people pissing away the opportunity to make a difference in a time that is CRITICAL to Michigan Off Road Development.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:43 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
And to answer liv2mx. By you cancelling that trail ride, it does a lot more damage to the sport then you can every imagine. You lost, all over 75 bucks and a couple hours of your time marking a map that you already said you had possesion.

Pretty stupid move if you ask me.

My favorite was your excuse that the ranger didn't send you the application, even though their right on the website ready to be downloaded for anybody.
i cancelled because of the liability...any damage i was responsable. and the bar owner.you are so fucking off on this kelly so stay out of it. i have talked with pat about doing it next year. you are more then welcome to carry the insurance..i am sure your dad would not mind putting his company up?
the application was easily available i know...the point is he said he would e mail it right to me...nothing...just like him approving the run..not going to happen. i fight for our trails all the time. i have turned people in 4 times for dumping trash..i dont need to get into what i do. my point to you kelly was this thread was started pointing the finger. like i said we are all guilty of not doing enough....we need to be all one group like the mi snowmobilers...that is power.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:43 PM   #67
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I dont deserve any recognition for what I "do" or "have done", I dont think I have really done anything worth commending. Thanks though (liv2mx)

and as for CC helping with things, he has helped more than most people. Just because his help isn't in the public eye doesnt meen he isnt doing his part. That goes for a lot of people too.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:45 PM   #68
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with me its time. Unfortunatly every trail clean up is like 4+ hours away from me. To go for that day and come home would cost to much. Also I am a full time student in collage.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:45 PM   #69
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Also I am a full time student in collage.
keep going, you have a ways to go
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:49 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Nick In Cali View Post
Problem is... I F*cked it up.

That's not the point of this thread. Not even close. Kelly was trying to find out from the public the reason people don't get more involved. He's trying to focus his efforts on finding the why and then addressing that. I think he wanted responses like: "I live too far away from any trails" or "Nobody posts what clean-ups are going and when" or "I think dues to join clubs are too high and I don't see any results from it". Stuff like that. I just got VERY angry earlier about people pissing away the opportunity to make a difference in a time that is CRITICAL to Michigan Off Road Development.
No apoligies,.............most know you are for the good.
Oh, and thanks for your Service.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:54 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
And to answer liv2mx. By you cancelling that trail ride, it does a lot more damage to the sport then you can every imagine. You lost, all over 75 bucks and a couple hours of your time marking a map that you already said you had possesion.

Pretty stupid move if you ask me.

My favorite was your excuse that the ranger didn't send you the application, even though their right on the website ready to be downloaded for anybody.


And it somewhat pisses me off that you turned that whole thing around to the ranger, and how it was his fault on warning you prior to you receiving many tickets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2mx View Post
i cancelled because of the liability...any damage i was responsable. and the bar owner.you are so fucking off on this kelly so stay out of it. i have talked with pat about doing it next year. you are more then welcome to carry the insurance..i am sure your dad would not mind putting his company up?
the application was easily available i know...the point is he said he would e mail it right to me...nothing...just like him approving the run..not going to happen. i fight for our trails all the time. i have turned people in 4 times for dumping trash..i dont need to get into what i do. my point to you kelly was this thread was started pointing the finger. like i said we are all guilty of not doing enough....we need to be all one group like the mi snowmobilers...that is power.
Would you two just f*ck and get it over with?
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:55 PM   #72
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Do you realize that many of the seasonal roads are slated to be closed unless they are properly digitized via GPS? That is one of the things GL is trying to do........ get a digital record before it is too late.
Seasonal rds get closed by the county they are in with a vote of county membes who show up at the meetings. You can GPS every one of them but if the vote of the people at the time of the meeting is to close it ...its closed. The only way to stop it is if enough people show up at the meetings and raise their hand to keep it open. I have done this in Clare county twice. and they stayed open. We can join and pay people all we want but if there is not enough supporting people at the meeting than BYE BYE road. People should plan on driveing and showing up at these meetings and vote rather waiting for some one else doing for them. The more physicly involved the better. Dont flame this either. I'm calling out for help just as you are. The problem is they put the suggested closers in the local papers and it is something most people dont even care to read. So every one should pay attention and report any of these actions so (we) as a community can act . Then there is the issue whether you can even vote if your not a proporty owner inthe county of the proposed closer. Alot to take in but this is why they get away with it.

If you feel im alittle off track explain it dont flame it.Please


By the way has the governer left for Canada yet!!
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:58 PM   #73
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Would you two just f*ck and get it over with?
his ass is too big!!!
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Old September 28th, 2007, 03:07 PM   #74
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Seasonal rds get closed by the county they are in with a vote of county membes who show up at the meetings. You can GPS every one of them but if the vote of the people at the time of the meeting is to close it ...its closed. The only way to stop it is if enough people show up at the meetings and raise their hand to keep it open. I have done this in Clare county twice. and they stayed open. We can join and pay people all we want but if there is not enough supporting people at the meeting than BYE BYE road. People should plan on driveing and showing up at these meetings and vote rather waiting for some one else doing for them. The more physicly involved the better. Dont flame this either. I'm calling out for help just as you are. The problem is they put the suggested closers in the local papers and it is something most people dont even care to read. So every one should pay attention and report any of these actions so (we) as a community can act . Then there is the issue whether you can even vote if your not a proporty owner inthe county of the proposed closer. Alot to take in but this is why they get away with it.

If you feel im alittle off track explain it dont flame it.Please


By the way has the governer left for Canada yet!!
Dude...I f*cking LOVE your avatar.

Edit: Figure I should add something to his request for input.

I'm sure you saw the posts and petitions for keep the roads open in Newago and Muskegon Counties. Would someone who attends the meeting bring a petition with them have any more leverage in your opinion? Do they have to PHYSICALLY ATTEND the meetings? I understand the difficulty of being there in person.

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Old September 28th, 2007, 03:09 PM   #75
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Membership....

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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Bruser,
During the days you are probably talking about, there were 4 different membership chairs in about a 6 month period. Plus at least 2 of them tried to use different software and info got lost.

Not a good scenario nor good excuse but the honest one. In fact, I think at one time it was posted asking people to come forward that had this problem trying to solve it.
Whiterhino.... Yes you are correct, it was during that time frame when the membership was lost, and you are also correct that the e-mail went out asking people to respond. I did respond and nothing came of it.... I'm not trying to pick a fight over this, I was stating that trust lost doesn't come back right away.
I'm considering applying for membership again.......
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Old September 28th, 2007, 03:14 PM   #76
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i cancelled because of the liability...any damage i was responsable. and the bar owner.you are so fucking off on this kelly so stay out of it. i have talked with pat about doing it next year. you are more then welcome to carry the insurance..i am sure your dad would not mind putting his company up?
the application was easily available i know...the point is he said he would e mail it right to me...nothing...just like him approving the run..not going to happen. i fight for our trails all the time. i have turned people in 4 times for dumping trash..i dont need to get into what i do. my point to you kelly was this thread was started pointing the finger. like i said we are all guilty of not doing enough....we need to be all one group like the mi snowmobilers...that is power.
my dad retired over a year ago, so I don't think he has anything to give you.

Pointing fingers? I think you overlooked the point of this thread, it was asking why people don't help, simple enough.

Insurance would not have been a problem, if you would have again contacted me. Seems like you didn't put much effort into it after you figured out you were doing something illegal.

And more important, is if you would have contacted me, I would have shown you a simple way to get around the 75 person rule, and you would not have needed insurance, nor a permit.

But instead of taking other options, or contacting people in the know, you simply bitched about a ranger doing his job, and probably saving your group a lot of tickets.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 03:18 PM   #77
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Kelly,

I have an interesting proposal for you. check your pm's.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 04:06 PM   #78
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personally I feel a bit out of place being Canadian with the Michigan trails, but I have tried to help with some of the Canadian trails though. There hasn't seemed to be too much "flack" about it over here though, unless I am just uninformed...
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Old September 28th, 2007, 04:10 PM   #79
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Are we talking about all the logging clear cuts?? I can only take so much looking at trees and stumps. Anywhere there is Great Lakes and clean rivers is great scenery though. If you want real scenery its about 1200 miles west.
God I'd love to see some trees...
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Old September 28th, 2007, 04:20 PM   #80
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Seasonal rds get closed by the county they are in with a vote of county membes who show up at the meetings. You can GPS every one of them but if the vote of the people at the time of the meeting is to close it ...its closed. The only way to stop it is if enough people show up at the meetings and raise their hand to keep it open. I have done this in Clare county twice. and they stayed open. We can join and pay people all we want but if there is not enough supporting people at the meeting than BYE BYE road. People should plan on driveing and showing up at these meetings and vote rather waiting for some one else doing for them. The more physicly involved the better. Dont flame this either. I'm calling out for help just as you are. The problem is they put the suggested closers in the local papers and it is something most people dont even care to read. So every one should pay attention and report any of these actions so (we) as a community can act . Then there is the issue whether you can even vote if your not a proporty owner inthe county of the proposed closer. Alot to take in but this is why they get away with it.

If you feel im alittle off track explain it dont flame it.Please


By the way has the governer left for Canada yet!!
Ron,
No intention of flaming. Trail Fanatic can reply to this better but as I understand it, NFS roads are coming out on a new map. If the map does not show a previously open trail, it will be closed. By us gpsing them, we can contest the new map & they must add the pre-existing trail, unless, they can show just cause for closing it.

As I understand it, your description fits county roads.
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