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Old September 28th, 2007, 11:06 AM   #41
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I believe we're at $15 for the one time GLFWDA event fee.
Yes, dare I say it, we are looking at a quarterly in the U.P. for 2008.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 11:14 AM   #42
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OK that leads me to my next question/assumption Are the quarterly meetings mandatory? I always assumed they were.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 11:16 AM   #43
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I believe we're at $15 for the one time GLFWDA event fee.
Yes, dare I say it, we are looking at a quarterly in the U.P. for 2008.
Why?

Normally you keep the "product" as easily accessible to the "consumer" as possible. I may be totally wrong, but if you had a quarterly in SE michigan, you would probably have a record turnout.

I know I haven't been able to attend one because with my work schedule, its damn near impossible to drive 8 hours round trip for a single day.

At least have one quarterly in SE michigan so people can at least see how it functions.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 11:35 AM   #44
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Why?

Normally you keep the "product" as easily accessible to the "consumer" as possible. I may be totally wrong, but if you had a quarterly in SE michigan, you would probably have a record turnout.
Maybe some urban wheelin' or mall crawlin' the day before!!!
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Old September 28th, 2007, 11:47 AM   #45
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OK that leads me to my next question/assumption Are the quarterly meetings mandatory? I always assumed they were.
I friggen hope not, cuz I'll be asking for reimbursement for air fare.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 12:01 PM   #46
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Quarterly meetings are not mandatory - if they were I'm sure our membership numbers would only be a fraction of what they are. You have to be in attendance to vote on any GLFWDA business.

Meeting dates, times, locations etc are proposed by the Board and voted on by the members. Our proposed slate of 2008 meetings will be voted on at the Fall Quarterly along with proposed dates for trail maintenance etc. We are proposing a UP date next year because we have a reasonable number of UP members, and none of our meeting places over the last few years have been even remotely convenient for them. And for most Quarterlies, there is a fair number of folks who car pool in just for the meeting. West Branch hits the schedule frequently becuase there are places to play nearby, and it is close enough to Metro Detroit to do a day trip.

Many of the folks who attend make a weekend out of it and bring their spouse, kids, significant others, dogs? Doesn't work for everyone I realize. But we usually get together Fri evening as folks get into town and drink a couple of cold adult beverages, wheel for part of Saturday, and have the meeting over with on Sunday early enough to make it back home at a reasonable time.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 12:21 PM   #47
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Maybe some urban wheelin' or mall crawlin' the day before!!!
I don't think theres any reason that a trail ride would have to be attached to a meeting. I can speak for myself in saying I don't enjoy trail ride groups with more then 4 rigs, so I wouldn't even want to go on a trail ride with 20+ vehicles.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 12:25 PM   #48
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Gents,
I can't fricken believe you. You complain and complain about the DNR, the USFS Rangers and whomever else you blame for your wheeling being restricted, ticketed, targeted or otherwise denied. And yet...all these issues are being fought by GLFWDA and UFWDA.

You complain about paying to get permits, insurance or paying fines. You complain about how hard it is to wheel in Michigan, and then you complain about paying money to GLFWDA. Lawyers cost money, lobbists cost money, running these websites costs money. And yet...for $35 a year you can do something about it. I'd be willing to bet Kelly's appendix (dont worry you dont need it) most people here spend 10x more than that in beer.

You complain about having to travel to meetings, having to travel for hours to just go wheeling legally. You complain about having nobody to wheel with, or not know what's legal in your area or not. And yet...there are Local Clubs all over the state. Not all local clubs belong to GLFWDA, but that's not the point. The point is to get organized and become part of a larger effort. Encourage YOUR local 4wd club to support GLFWDA (yes it costs $. Damn ya'll are cheap, remember I'm on a military salary). Take turns sending a representative to GLFWDA meetings in order to express your clubs views/concerns and get feedback to pass at your next local club meeting (ie: when you all gather at the bar, preferrably while your still sober).

I fricken live in "Cali-pass the tofu-fornia". The damn Sierra Club was founded here. And yet, for some reason...they've got their act together here, more than in a state where the average bumper height has got to be over 2.5 feet. I do not belong to a local "club" because I cannot see the point in supporting a Cali Club when MI is in so much need. I purchased my membership to GLFWDA and have been testing the waters as much as I can from here with the Two Trackers, SoFO and What Lies Beyond to see what they are all about. They seem to be active and have the same trail ethics that I do.

All I hear about riding trails and planning events in Michigan is that "it sucks", "it's not worth it", "we're going to lose anyway". And yet...most of you do nothing but complain from your computer desk. Truth be told, you have nothing to complain about. For example: There are over 5,000 members on this site and how many have signed the petition to keep Staple Road open? (not all members are active, I grant you...but let's just say 50%, Kelly tell me if I'm wrong.) There are what, 800 signatures? That's pathetic. It's goddamn free, doesn't require you to travel anywhere to do it, and is local which directly effects your ability to wheel in Michigan. You ask me, you're just whores that actually enjoy things being f*cked up so you can have something to complain about.

**This does NOT apply to everyone...you know who you are.**
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Old September 28th, 2007, 12:34 PM   #49
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There are over 5,000 members on this site and how many have signed the petition to keep Staple Road open? (not all members are active, I grant you...but let's just say 50%, Kelly tell me if I'm wrong.)
4107 have been active in the last 30 days.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 12:51 PM   #50
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4107 have been active in the last 30 days.
what did I tell you.... cricket, cricket. how many posts have been made since mine in other threads? The DNR is effectively bitch slapping your asses.

Thread Killer strikes again. CC maybe you should change my name again.

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Old September 28th, 2007, 01:28 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Nick In Cali View Post
Gents,
I can't fricken believe you. You complain and complain about the DNR, the USFS Rangers and whomever else you blame for your wheeling being restricted, ticketed, targeted or otherwise denied. And yet...all these issues are being fought by GLFWDA and UFWDA.

You complain about paying to get permits, insurance or paying fines. You complain about how hard it is to wheel in Michigan, and then you complain about paying money to GLFWDA. Lawyers cost money, lobbists cost money, running these websites costs money. And yet...for $35 a year you can do something about it. I'd be willing to bet Kelly's appendix (dont worry you dont need it) most people here spend 10x more than that in beer.

You complain about having to travel to meetings, having to travel for hours to just go wheeling legally. You complain about having nobody to wheel with, or not know what's legal in your area or not. And yet...there are Local Clubs all over the state. Not all local clubs belong to GLFWDA, but that's not the point. The point is to get organized and become part of a larger effort. Encourage YOUR local 4wd club to support GLFWDA (yes it costs $. Damn ya'll are cheap, remember I'm on a military salary). Take turns sending a representative to GLFWDA meetings in order to express your clubs views/concerns and get feedback to pass at your next local club meeting (ie: when you all gather at the bar, preferrably while your still sober).

I fricken live in "Cali-pass the tofu-fornia". The damn Sierra Club was founded here. And yet, for some reason...they've got their act together here, more than in a state where the average bumper height has got to be over 2.5 feet. I do not belong to a local "club" because I cannot see the point in supporting a Cali Club when MI is in so much need. I purchased my membership to GLFWDA and have been testing the waters as much as I can from here with the Two Trackers, SoFO and What Lies Beyond to see what they are all about. They seem to be active and have the same trail ethics that I do.

All I hear about riding trails and planning events in Michigan is that "it sucks", "it's not worth it", "we're going to lose anyway". And yet...most of you do nothing but complain from your computer desk. Truth be told, you have nothing to complain about. For example: There are over 5,000 members on this site and how many have signed the petition to keep Staple Road open? (not all members are active, I grant you...but let's just say 50%, Kelly tell me if I'm wrong.) There are what, 800 signatures? That's pathetic. It's goddamn free, doesn't require you to travel anywhere to do it, and is local which directly effects your ability to wheel in Michigan. You ask me, you're just whores that actually enjoy things being f*cked up so you can have something to complain about.

**This does NOT apply to everyone...you know who you are.**
Great "Pep Talk"..... .......... ........and to add to this, there is mapping going on in the M-Triangle this weekend, if anybody wants to help contact Trail Fanatic, I'm sure he would welcome you.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 01:41 PM   #52
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I do care about saving trails. I participate in the annual trail clean up on the west side, I have read all 110 pages of the BLM Plan for Moab. I have been to Moab and visited many of the places slated for closure / significant control.

I did at one time "donate" my $35.00 to GLFWD... That was in the "bad" days and once my money was in the system I heard nothing...( no one knew anything about my membership). I am on the verge of becoming a member again....( once you loose trust, it must be gained back in small increments).

I do not have experience in dealing with the powers that be, but if some one wants to mentor an old guy, I'd be happy to get deeply involved..... I just need to find the pathway.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 01:53 PM   #53
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I do care about saving trails. I participate in the annual trail clean up on the west side, I have read all 110 pages of the BLM Plan for Moab. I have been to Moab and visited many of the places slated for closure / significant control.

I did at one time "donate" my $35.00 to GLFWD... That was in the "bad" days and once my money was in the system I heard nothing...( no one knew anything about my membership). I am on the verge of becoming a member again....( once you loose trust, it must be gained back in small increments).

I do not have experience in dealing with the powers that be, but if some one wants to mentor an old guy, I'd be happy to get deeply involved..... I just need to find the pathway.
Bruser,
During the days you are probably talking about, there were 4 different membership chairs in about a 6 month period. Plus at least 2 of them tried to use different software and info got lost.

Not a good scenario nor good excuse but the honest one. In fact, I think at one time it was posted asking people to come forward that had this problem trying to solve it.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 01:58 PM   #54
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This doesn't apply to everyone of course.

Simple question. Why don't you help financially, or with the donation of your time?

Is it a lack of information of what you can do to help? Is it easier to sit back and watch other people do it? Lack of time?

Ever notice land issue threads receive 1/50th the hits of a post in the pub featuring cats playing the piano? Why is this?
how many meeting have you been to?? how many trail cleanups?? never seen you at any. but you always point the finger at everyone else? i believe you help but a owner of such a large 4x4 site i would think you would be present at alot more of these functions....i did not see you offer to help me with my run. or put a kitty up for the permit...how many times have you been to a orv meeting for county openings. i think everyone is guilty of not doing enough...
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:00 PM   #55
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how many meeting have you been to?? how many trail cleanups?? never seen you at any. but you always point the finger at everyone else? i believe you help but a owner of such a large 4x4 site i would think you would be present at alot more of these functions....i did not see you offer to help me with my run. or put a kitty up for the permit...how many times have you been to a orv meeting for county openings. i think everyone is guilty of not doing enough...
I just saw questions from him in that post. I didn't see him pointing any fingers.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:06 PM   #56
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whiterhino, trailfanatic ,95geo and alot others are the main people that keep our trails going..pat does so much work it is crazy.... just wanted to say thanks.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:12 PM   #57
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how many meeting have you been to?? how many trail cleanups?? never seen you at any. but you always point the finger at everyone else? i believe you help but a owner of such a large 4x4 site i would think you would be present at alot more of these functions....i did not see you offer to help me with my run. or put a kitty up for the permit...how many times have you been to a orv meeting for county openings. i think everyone is guilty of not doing enough...
You know what I like about you? You can express yourself very well. Problem is, the point is being lost by pointing fingers. The purpose of this thread ENTIRELY is to get people to look inside and ask themselves, what are they doing to help? If your post is to make Kelly think about his own efforts, then very well. But if it's to point blame...then I'd say remove it.

I don't know your real name...but I'm being honest. I WANT to help you when I move back to Michigan to make this run an annual, possibly sponsored event. I've got a shi-tton of ideas to help, things that will require effort and planning. I just hope I don't get home too late and things are too far gone.

As for CC putting up a kitty, I think that would somehow make him liable. Not sure...

I will admit that I'm guilty of not going on ANY trail runs in Michigan to help with clean-up, pay for permits, confront & report DNR/COs... the stuff you and I have traded (productive) jabs about in the last few weeks. I do have a passion for the Michigan trail system and I'm waiting for someone to ask "what the f*ck do you care, you're not even here!?" The passion is that I am a Michigan resident, we do have a beautiful state, and I want to be able to use it just like my father and grandfather did...more importantly...some day I want to take my grandkids out in my 74 CJ.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:19 PM   #58
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how many meeting have you been to?? how many trail cleanups?? never seen you at any. but you always point the finger at everyone else? i believe you help but a owner of such a large 4x4 site i would think you would be present at alot more of these functions....i did not see you offer to help me with my run. or put a kitty up for the permit...how many times have you been to a orv meeting for county openings. i think everyone is guilty of not doing enough...
if you would have asked me, I would have worked out something in permit fees, just like I have with other clubs doing t-shirts and the likes.

Trail cleanups? 4.

And if you want to get into dealing on the government level, I would probably be called by the gov't officials as "the annoying one" since I talk to them all the time, usually complaining about petitions that I have to sign to keep shit open.

I'm like others who posted in this forum, I don't make it known every single time I do something to help the sport.

I should bring this back up, many people don't realize you can call into your representatives and talk to them. This is a good way to get them 1on1.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:19 PM   #59
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Don't give me so much credit. I don't do nearly as much as some. But......... I believe in the cause to support the sport.

I have the benefit of being online during the day so I am here quite often to defend the sport and add insight, comments, encouragement, corrections, whatever. I have been to a total of 2 trail maintenances. Pales in comparison to Ironman (everyone for something like 4 years), KB8YMF (30 years worth of service) Paul Mulder (every trail maintenance ever I think LOL)

I have also been to a few ORV advisory meetings. Not alot. I have written to my congressman (have a written response from the Michigan attorney general on insurance), signed petitions, and have worked with the GLFWDA trail ride committee.

But, regardless of how much or how little a person does, I am firm believer that just adding to the $$$$ pool and pure numbers makes a big difference.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 02:20 PM   #60
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Unfortunately I can not add much here, other then to complement those who i believe have said it best.

Nick, I believe your spot on.

clarkstoncracker: You have raised a good point and I hope other will learn from it.

I will not beat my own drum saying all that I have done, or accuse other that they are not doing there part. We all have lives and things that take our time and money.I know that I have done and will do what I can. I am the only one that knows for sure of that for I am the only one that knows my full situation. So for everyone here, if you can say the same then I commend you, if you can not, then you know what you must do.
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