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Old March 2nd, 2006, 02:52 PM   #1
amc78cj7
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More flippin switch wiring problems

OK, I bought a DPDT lighted switch from 4x4mods.com (note: they have 0 customer service, not even a phone # listed for help). Anyway, I digress. I am hooking up my dual batteries as such

1st hot wire into switch from ign/ run - used to feed juice into in-cab switch to 200amp selenoid connecting dual batteries when in run position


2nd hot wire into switch directly from battery 2 - used to feed juice into in-cab switch to selenoid when primary battery is dead (jump start)

3rd wire - leaves switch and carries juice to the selenoid

All 3 wires have in-line 15amp fuses.

How the F@#$ do you wire this switch. Shawn brought a Fluke meter over and we determined that position 5 connects to pole 4 in up position and position 5 connects to pole 6 in down position.

The corner poles are bridged to one another so essentially pole 4 is connected directly to pole 3, and pole 6 is connected directly to pole 1.

BTW, I have found by error that if you connect wire 1 to pole 4, wire 2 to pole 6, wire 3 to pole 5 and a ground to pole 2 then the switch wil operate correctly for about 3 switches before blowing the fuses on wires 1 and/or 2. And the lights don't work. The lights only work if you put juice to pole 5, but then they stay on all the time. WTF. Help please. CC, Wynerd, any other electricians......

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Old March 2nd, 2006, 03:15 PM   #2
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The real question is why are the corner poles bridged?

It does not show them being bridged, and that is why your fuses are blowing, if they are in fact bridged..


The way I see it (I'm not an electrician, I'm an electrical engineer...) it should be corrected as follows:


Terminal 1 = not connected
Terminal 2 = ground
Terminal 3 = not connected
Terminal 4 = Hot from battery 1
Terminal 5 = output to solenoid
Terminal 6 = Hot from battery 2


In this scenario, both high-sides of the LED indicator jewels are hot as long as the batteries are hot.

When the switch is in the center position (this switch does have a center psoition, right?), the low sides are floating. No light, and no voltage on terminal 5.

When the switch is up, then terminal 4 is connected to terminal 5, and terminal 1 is grounded by terminal 2. So Terminal 5 is battery #1 hot, and the upper LED circuit now glows.

When the switch is down, then terminal 6 is connected to terminal 5, and terminal 3 is grounded by terminal 2. So Terminal 5 is battery #2 hot, and the lower LED circuit now glows.



If you have the corner poles shorted, though, since you are feeding the switch in something of a backwards method, then if you switch up(to connect terminal 4 to 5), you are also switching terminal 1 to ground(via terminal 2). Since Terminal 6 is connected to terminal 1, you are grounding battery #2, so it blows the fuse.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 03:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
should be corrected as follows:


Terminal 1 = not connected
Terminal 2 = ground
Terminal 3 = not connected
Terminal 4 = Hot from battery 1
Terminal 5 = output to solenoid
Terminal 6 = Hot from battery 2

This is EXACTLY how Shawn and I thought it should be, but it also is EXACTLy the scenerio where the lights aren't working and the fuses are blowing......

And yes, the corner posts are bridged to each other with brass. Essentially it looks like the two kitty-corner terminals are one piece of brass with a long center section and rivited on at the two corners.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 03:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
When the switch is in the center position (this switch does have a center psoition, right?), the low sides are floating. No light, and no voltage on terminal 5.

If you have the corner poles shorted, though, since you are feeding the switch in something of a backwards method, then if you switch up(to connect terminal 4 to 5), you are also switching terminal 1 to ground(via terminal 2). Since Terminal 6 is connected to terminal 1, you are grounding battery #2, so it blows the fuse.
You know, I almost wonder if it would be fixed if I sever the bridges between the terminals...........
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 03:51 PM   #5
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Haha, Jeff, that is EXACTLY what I was just thinking. Those "bridges" are like that for a reason, so you can take some snips and cut them out. Do that, and all problems should be solved.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 03:57 PM   #6
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The snips are coming out when I get home. If it fails I'm only out a stupid $10 switch. Hell, I've already burned though $10 in fuses trying to figure it out..........
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 04:15 PM   #7
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YEs, that is my suggestion as well. Snip the bridges.

Lots of times switches are like that. Just like how most home 120 volt dual recepticles can be snipped in the middle to have one constant hot and one switched hot...
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 05:42 PM   #8
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I haven't gotten out a piece of paper to draw this out and think about it, but at quick glance I think if you cut that bridge the leds may not work.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 06:32 PM   #9
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This will work, but you must keep a ground on the #2 pole.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 07:01 PM   #10
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I figured out why pin 1 is tied to pin 6 - it is for the ground side switching (K1 & K3 relay coils) to be able to turn the led on (same for 3 to 4). still trying to figure out why the rest will not work
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 07:02 PM   #11
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You're not gonna believe it, but we were sort of right, sort of wrong. It still doesn't make sense based on the diagram, but here is how it worked after I cut both bridges and tried different combos:

Ground to post 5, not 2
Hot from ignition to 3, not 4
Hot from spare battery to 1, not 6
Wire out to selenoid on 2, not 5



Here is where it gets confusing. In this configuration I get juice from the ignition when the switch is in the UP position (opposite from where the IGN wire attaches, and juice from the spare battery in the down position. Oh, and the light only works in the up position, not the down position. I tried it the way we (Haggar and Shawn) speculated, but that gave me no light, so I switched to the opposite side.

WTF. Strange huh. I wish I knew how to get the light to go in both "on" positions, but I guess I can live with it.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 08:29 PM   #12
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The lgiths aren't working correctly because LEDs are diodes and can't operate in reverse polarity.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 08:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
The lgiths aren't working correctly because LEDs are diodes and can't operate in reverse polarity.
Well the lights didn't work at all when I had the power on the 4/5/6 side and the ground on the 2 post, so why is that?
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Old March 3rd, 2006, 09:37 AM   #14
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the diodes would have worked correctly with the bridges not cut with power coming in on pins 1 and 3. I just do not figure out how they could would correctly with power on pins 4 and 6. It seems like they would have lit oposite of what they should have.

It seems like you could have gotten a single pole double throw and it would have been easier. Did you get that switch because it came with graphics on it?

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Old March 3rd, 2006, 09:49 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5.9zj
the diodes would have worked correctly with the bridges not cut with power coming in on pins 1 and 3. I just do not figure out how they could would correctly with power on pins 4 and 6. It seems like they would have lit oposite of what they should have.

It seems like you could have gotten a single pole double throw and it would have been easier. Did you get that switch because it came with graphics on it?
I'll run jumpers tonight to replace the bridges and see if you are right.

I bought that switch for the fancy sticker. And I had tried a SPDT previously and the lights were always on, even when the vehicle was off.
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