60 knuckles on a 44? - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Axle Tech
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 16th, 2007, 10:18 AM   #1
Cartman
Can't lose with 42s
 
Cartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-17-06
Location: Williamsburg, MI
Posts: 1,043
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default 60 knuckles on a 44?

The following is from the NAXJA website, they mention running 60 knuckles on a 44...does this seem possible? If so, I've got a stiffy


Quote:
Running 35 splines on a 44 would shift the week link to the pinion, but if you are running 1310 u-joints those will (should) go first.

To run the big Ford stuff you have to run a factory ford knuckle. The plus is most are already flat tops. You have to run the Ford brakes and your only option for aftermarket knuckles are Dedenbear ( http://www.reidracing.biz/DANA44.php ).

It has been years since I've had one apart and I really didn't pay attention much then. I have always thought they were 27 splines but I always end up with conflicting spline and stub lengths.

Yukon does list a 4340 stub. It is listed as a 10.6" stub with 27 splines and the app is a 77-78 F250.

Where it gets confusing is they also list for replacement shafts:
10.66" 19 spline
7.94 27 spline (I really think this is an explorer/bronco II stub miss labeled as a D44 stub)
11.50" 30 spline (I'm positive this is a Ford ball joint 60 stub, 88? up)
11.40" 30 spline (I'm positive this is a Ford king pin 60 stub)
10.66" 30 spline (I think this is the replacement and I believe the spline count is incorrect)

Without having a hub or stub in hand it will be hard to tell.

Another issue are the lockouts. 15 years ago you could only get junkyard parts. That may have changed now, I only looked on Warn's and Superwinches site and neither of them listed the external lockouts for the Ford. 25 years ago they were available but no one ran them long because they were junk.

My 19 spline's have been holding up. If you plan to thrash I bet they would fatigue and break occasionally.

If you are planning on buying knuckles anyway I would just put some 60 knuckles on a 44, run 35 spline stuff, and call it good. Rough figures on what I gathered is 35 spline spicer stuff (including the axle joint) is about 20% to 30% stronger than chromo 44 stuff. For the price of aftermarket shafts I wouldn't bother running the spicers but I would (am going to) run the spicer u-joints.

Bottom like is if you have it already and chromo's are available, I would probably run it. If you have to gather parts and put it together, just source some 60 stuff, put it on your 44 and move on.

If you are stuck on the 44 I would explore to other options:
1. Have some 30 stubs made, bore the spindle if needed, and run whatever flavor of hub and rotor you want.
2. Run CJ stuff but that probably removes your ability to run 8-lug stuff. I believe the flange on the Warn conversion kit is too small to redrill.
Cartman is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old August 16th, 2007, 10:25 AM   #2
Cartman
Can't lose with 42s
 
Cartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-17-06
Location: Williamsburg, MI
Posts: 1,043
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

heres a link to the thread..
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthrea...=927594&page=1
Cartman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2007, 10:25 AM   #3
Jeepaholic
Axle Guru Extraordinaire
 
Jeepaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-08-06
Location: Owosso
Posts: 7,326
iTrader: (116)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Jeepaholic Send a message via MSN to Jeepaholic
Default

Yes it has been done. ARB even makes a locker for the 44 that is 35 spline, so you can run 60 sized shafts though out the axle. But this probably makes the ring gear the weak link.
Jeepaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2007, 10:29 AM   #4
Cartman
Can't lose with 42s
 
Cartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-17-06
Location: Williamsburg, MI
Posts: 1,043
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Nevermind, more research indicates that you would need to weld on 60 ends...of course you could do it if you did that!

I guess it means hacking up a perfectly usable 60 to make a 44 work...then special bearings and machining work to get the 35 spline carrier in there..
Cartman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2007, 10:31 AM   #5
Cartman
Can't lose with 42s
 
Cartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-17-06
Location: Williamsburg, MI
Posts: 1,043
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Another link that describes the ARB 35 spliner..probably should of searched a bit on the net before I posted but oh well...if someone used the search and ran across this it may help.
http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/techart..._44/index.html
Cartman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2007, 10:36 AM   #6
Jeepaholic
Axle Guru Extraordinaire
 
Jeepaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-08-06
Location: Owosso
Posts: 7,326
iTrader: (116)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Jeepaholic Send a message via MSN to Jeepaholic
Default

I might have some parts that interest you in a few weeks (read: already hacked up 60)
Jeepaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2007, 10:36 AM   #7
Cartman
Can't lose with 42s
 
Cartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-17-06
Location: Williamsburg, MI
Posts: 1,043
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

oh daaaayum im chubbing up again!
Cartman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2007, 11:15 AM   #8
Monkeyevil
I <3 Miatas
 
Monkeyevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 8,988
iTrader: (16)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Monkeyevil
Default

Crane makes inner C's with many different ID's. Many of which will slide on your d44 tubes.

If you run OEM d60 inner c's you will need to have sleeves machined because of the large ID of the C's.

Problem with 60 outers on a 44 is the cost. Your looking at $400 for the inner C's. Then you have to get outers, and outers are the reason front 60's are so expensive.

Then you need to get a 35 spline ARB, and either have stock 60 shafts cut down, or get alloy shafts.

So by the time your done you have a $2,500 D44.
__________________
JcrOffroad
Zoom Zoom!
Monkeyevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2007, 11:20 AM   #9
PavementPounder
I am the law.
 
PavementPounder's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Birmingham, Michigan 48009
Posts: 29,824
iTrader: (224)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

That's why I'm just shaving a HPD60 for my XJ.


Well, I'm not shaving it.
PavementPounder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2007, 11:27 AM   #10
Jeepaholic
Axle Guru Extraordinaire
 
Jeepaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-08-06
Location: Owosso
Posts: 7,326
iTrader: (116)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Jeepaholic Send a message via MSN to Jeepaholic
Default

A 78-79 F250 housing is close to the same od as a 60.

Pretty sure I could build one for ~$1500

Dana 60 + arb is going to be close to $2000
Jeepaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2007, 12:06 PM   #11
Cartman
Can't lose with 42s
 
Cartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-17-06
Location: Williamsburg, MI
Posts: 1,043
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeyevil View Post
Crane makes inner C's with many different ID's. Many of which will slide on your d44 tubes.

If you run OEM d60 inner c's you will need to have sleeves machined because of the large ID of the C's.

Problem with 60 outers on a 44 is the cost. Your looking at $400 for the inner C's. Then you have to get outers, and outers are the reason front 60's are so expensive.

Then you need to get a 35 spline ARB, and either have stock 60 shafts cut down, or get alloy shafts.

So by the time your done you have a $2,500 D44.
So what are we looking at?
35 spline ARB carrier, Machining costs for the different bearings, purchasing custom bearings, custom axle seals, 60 inner Cs and 60 outers, and axleshafts..

Question on axle shafts - if the housing you start with is a F250 it is the same length as a 60. Could stock 60 shafts be used?
Cartman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2007, 12:18 PM   #12
Haggar
Covered in mud...
 
Haggar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Oxford, MI
Posts: 17,775
iTrader: (58)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman View Post
So what are we looking at?
35 spline ARB carrier, Machining costs for the different bearings, purchasing custom bearings, custom axle seals, 60 inner Cs and 60 outers, and axleshafts..

Question on axle shafts - if the housing you start with is a F250 it is the same length as a 60. Could stock 60 shafts be used?
Would depend on how wide you make your axle. You could certainly start with a wide axle and then trim each side as necessary to make them match some factory application.

Of course, if you are willing to source everything from the inner knuckles on out, plus a new differential + setup, then just either spend a few more for a spider 9 center, or else go find a wide dana 60 rear axle, and use that to be the center of your new front, as long as you don't need it too long on the long side....
Haggar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2007, 12:56 PM   #13
Cartman
Can't lose with 42s
 
Cartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-17-06
Location: Williamsburg, MI
Posts: 1,043
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

The attempt would be to mimic a 78-79 ford HP60, I would be using a 78-79 F250 HP44 housing.
Cartman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 16th, 2007, 01:22 PM   #14
Jeepaholic
Axle Guru Extraordinaire
 
Jeepaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-08-06
Location: Owosso
Posts: 7,326
iTrader: (116)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Jeepaholic Send a message via MSN to Jeepaholic
Default

I thought the arb came with the special bearings? Just throw it in after you set up the gears. It is $900 though.

Any machining would be to get the C's to fit on the housing, and maybe cutting down the shafts.

Here you go, looks

F250, 18 3/4" and 34 3/4"
F350, 18 35/64" and 34 43/64"

Last edited by Jeepaholic; August 16th, 2007 at 01:26 PM.
Jeepaholic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Talk > Axle Tech

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:47 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.43845 seconds with 62 queries