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Old August 4th, 2007, 01:37 PM   #1
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Default Evolution vs Creationiss, One religion's goal to dumb down the human race...

So, I found this documentary... I personally couldn't go through more then 3/4 of the first video before closing the video. I was too shocked at how stupid they take people for. The utter lies amaze me:

Both links:
http://www.tv-links.co.uk/listings/9/4806

They're probably about an hour each.
My personal opinion, Christians like this woman are just dumb and I don't understand how anyone could watch those video's and think "ya know I agree, creationism is the right thing."





Discuss...

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Old August 4th, 2007, 02:44 PM   #2
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Links don't work but that's ok. I think we have had this discussion a few times.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 03:02 PM   #3
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You hear information that's new to you and that makes it dumb. Non-Christians believe Darwin because in his theory there is no Creator, who would be Lord of all. The idea of not having to answer to a Higher Power has a good ring to it for people who only want to please themselves. The good news is there is a God and only He is worthy to above me and He deserves my worship.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 05:07 PM   #4
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I'm not saying the new information automatically seems stupid. But for the 45 minutes I watched they blindly bashed and misinterpreted the theory of evolution. Not one minute was I filled with a learning experience on the side of creationism. I would not mind a debate about this on a documentary if they explained both sides and had real professionals with real facts, not some kook on a religious network who we all know won't defend of bring up facts that may cause Christians to question their fate....

I brought this discussion up not really to preach who is right and who is wrong. We don't have the answer to that question. They may or may not be a god, evolution may or may not exist, and the bible may or may not be just a story book written by men who wrote in a biased form based on the environment they were surrounded in. I brought up this discussion to talk about how you and I all feel about how people are going on about this.

The only way to actually PROVE any of this creationism/evolution is through facts, true interpretation and an open mind. Without that no one's gonna get anywhere... I say, if we really wanna make this interesting and worth while, if you've got a "fact" you think can contribute to what you believe, post it, with a link, and any information to tie up loose ends in your fact.




So as not to confuse people I'll put my belief out there. Remember it's my belief, no need to flame. I believe in no god. I believe the first religions, of which the 3 main grew from. Were societies first forms of government. I believe religion can be a good thing for a good number of people who don't spend too much of their time on it. I believe praying can be good. I believe religions who breed hate are worthless. I believe the bible was written by man, with no influence from god, and that those man put in it things that were relevant to the time period. I have read the bible, all of it. Unlike most Catholics and Christians. I believe if you're going to say the bible should be taken seriously you should use every rule in it, or none. Don't pick and choose like just about every person does. I do not believe in near death experiences, nor most supernaturals. And I believe Jesus was a real man, a good man, trying to get a good idea out there. I despise catholics who say Jews killed Jesus when in fact it was the Romans. Lastly I believe that it is the kooks that give religion a bad name, and that the majority of religious people are the ones no one hears about, nice people, who do not push their beliefs, and get the true message religion started with.

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Old August 4th, 2007, 07:29 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by jthomp View Post
You hear information that's new to you and that makes it dumb. Non-Christians believe Darwin because in his theory there is no Creator, who would be Lord of all. The idea of not having to answer to a Higher Power has a good ring to it for people who only want to please themselves. The good news is there is a God and only He is worthy to above me and He deserves my worship.

Before I reply to this, I'd first like to state that in no way am I attempting to tell you your beliefs are wrong, or force mine upon you. Merely offering my opinion based on what I have observed, and what I believe.



I'll leave the first sentence alone, because I believe Nizzy already posted a sufficient explanation.

As for the second sentence (in red), I'd like to point out that in no way does Darwin's theory at any point make a claim that some sort of higher power exists. It merely claims that all species of life have evolved over time from one or a few common ancestors through the process of natural selection. I'd also like to point out that there are a large number of people who believe in both evolution and a higher power (some of which are Christians). I myself believe that there is a God, or possibly Gods, watching over us, but that he/she/it/they allows climate change and free will to run it's course. What I don't understand, is why it's so hard for religious people to accept that maybe God (or whoever your chosen deity/deities are) created life, then allowed natural selection to run it's course, thus creating evolution over many thousands or even hundreds of thousands of years.

For the last sentence (in blue)...well, if thats your belief, then thats your belief, but it makes you sound awful pompous and full of yourself. Granted, that may simply be a mistaken internet interpretation or a mis-type on your part (specifically the "only He is worthy to be above me" bit), but it's how you seem to come across. Whats unfortunate, is that the loud minority of the religious crowd (Christian or otherwise) also comes across that way, which creates a very negative image of your chosen religion as a whole.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 07:55 PM   #6
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does the human race have much room for dumbing down? i mean anyone who spends any of the limited amount of time we have on this shitty chunk of rock trying to kiss enough ass to get into a afterlife that may or may not exist isnt high on the brains scale in my opinion. eat red meat, drink booze, smoke cigars, drive over the speed limit, hump underage girls. smokme weed every day. off to the bar, go to hell
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Old August 4th, 2007, 08:11 PM   #7
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The only way to actually PROVE any of this creationism/evolution is through facts, true interpretation and an open mind. I say, if we really wanna make this interesting and worth while, if you've got a "fact" you think can contribute to what you believe,



The Lord proved himself when Christ came to earth, the miracles that were performed by Him. Fact is He did those things, and the proof you are looking for is just man's sinful desire to be the Alpha. The men who wrote the Bible down did so under harsh conditions, they were not lifted up by their peers, Paul was in prison while most of his letters were written. I think it's obvious the treatment Jesus recieved that it wasn't the popular opinion/belief.
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Old August 4th, 2007, 08:26 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Guitardrumr View Post
For the last sentence (in blue)...well, if thats your belief, then thats your belief, but it makes you sound awful pompous and full of yourself. Granted, that may simply be a mistaken internet interpretation or a mis-type on your part (specifically the "only He is worthy to be above me" bit), but it's how you seem to come across. .

Little type-o. I don't put myself above any other people. I was only saying God is above man, He is the one who created all of us and everything we see.
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Old August 5th, 2007, 02:28 AM   #9
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Little type-o. I don't put myself above any other people. I was only saying God is above man, He is the one who created all of us and everything we see.
I figured that was more what you meant. But you've gotta admit, that is what the loud minority all seem to think, that nobody but their Lord is above them, that they are 'Too good' for other people.

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The only way to actually PROVE any of this creationism/evolution is through facts, true interpretation and an open mind. I say, if we really wanna make this interesting and worth while, if you've got a "fact" you think can contribute to what you believe,
The only snag with that, is that we have no irrefutable proof for either. Only best guesses, opinions, and stories handed down from previous generations. If we had irrefutable proof for either, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Of course, thats the beauty of beliefs. So long as you have faith in them, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about it. There are those that don't understand that, and try to force their beliefs unto others (on all sides, not just the extremist Muslims that are most commonly found in the news), but they tend to be the minority, albeit the loud minority.


Quote:
The Lord proved himself when Christ came to earth, the miracles that were performed by Him. Fact is He did those things, and the proof you are looking for is just man's sinful desire to be the Alpha. The men who wrote the Bible down did so under harsh conditions, they were not lifted up by their peers, Paul was in prison while most of his letters were written. I think it's obvious the treatment Jesus received that it wasn't the popular opinion/belief.
Fact is...we have zero proof of any of that. A book written by the hand of man is not sufficient proof of that. It's certainly possible, but to prove it would take nothing short of an act of God, literally. I'd also like to point out that just because what Jesus proposed wasn't the popular opinion/belief, doesn't prove that it was right. The same could be said of Columbus, who proposed the world was round, or even Darwin when he went public with his theory of evolution. In fact, had Darwin been around and able to propose his theory a hundred years or so earlier, he might've been persecuted to the extent that Jesus himself was, though in a different way (shot/hanged vs crucified).


All of our supposed facts, on either side, amount to circumstantial evidence in the great scheme of things. Fact is...there will probably be people debating evolution vs intelligent design until the end of days.
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Old August 5th, 2007, 02:47 AM   #10
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[


The Lord proved himself when Christ came to earth, the miracles that were performed by Him. Fact is He did those things, and the proof you are looking for is just man's sinful desire to be the Alpha. The men who wrote the Bible down did so under harsh conditions, they were not lifted up by their peers, Paul was in prison while most of his letters were written. I think it's obvious the treatment Jesus recieved that it wasn't the popular opinion/belief.[/QUOTE] yes he came to earth with santa and the easter bunny, and zues, and thor
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Old August 5th, 2007, 07:59 AM   #11
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[


The Lord proved himself when Christ came to earth, the miracles that were performed by Him. Fact is He did those things, and the proof you are looking for is just man's sinful desire to be the Alpha. The men who wrote the Bible down did so under harsh conditions, they were not lifted up by their peers, Paul was in prison while most of his letters were written. I think it's obvious the treatment Jesus recieved that it wasn't the popular opinion/belief./QUOTE] yes he came to earth with santa and the easter bunny, and zues, and thor
Charles Manson has done some writing in prison, and he had disciples and long hair. OMG Charles Manson is the love child of Paul and Jesus.
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Old August 5th, 2007, 08:03 AM   #12
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yes he came to earth with santa and the easter bunny, and zues, and thor
Maybe you should have payed attention in school. No matter what your beliefs, Jesus' existence is undeniable. He is documented throughout history.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/ch19.htm

I guess Pontius Pilate as well as all people around this era are also fiction lol...
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Old August 5th, 2007, 04:47 PM   #13
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Maybe you should have payed attention in school. No matter what your beliefs, Jesus' existence is undeniable. He is documented throughout history.

http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/ch19.htm

I guess Pontius Pilate as well as all people around this era are also fiction lol...
:chiefwoohaw: :chiefwoohaw: :chiefwoohaw: yes there was many men named jesus from that time. it was a popular name.
the mithology is the son of the magic man in the sky part i was making fun of
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Old August 5th, 2007, 07:45 PM   #14
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Old August 5th, 2007, 09:41 PM   #15
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while I cannot personally prove that men was once a tadpole, or an ape, or whatever animal Christians like to use to dumb down the entire idea to get people to side with them.... We have proven FACT that the word is not 6000 years old as the bible says, It can be documented from rocks, It's a test called age dating. It all works out on paper and it's not on the list of things Christians love to say people in white coats make up, simply because it proves them wrong.

The Bible contains about the same quantity of fact, history, and pizza....

jthomp if you are a true Christian and believe in the bible as much as you lead up to think. If you have a son, and he has defied you in any way... You are instructed by the bible, to stone your child to death. I've read the bible, and it's very easy to tear it apart and show how racist, sexist, violent, and full of stories.




Anyway, As I was saying. I believe that most of these religious people have spent a lot of time "proving" that evolution is false... why don't they prove how creationism makes so much sense. Aside from the beating-around-the-bush answers jthomp continues to input into this topic over and over. You can't quote fact on one of the ideas in question it's self. It's like me saying evolution is true because the courts made it legal to teach. Ridiculous, no wonder Christians aren't taken seriously in a debate...
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Old August 5th, 2007, 10:13 PM   #16
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do you mean carbon 14 dating that the inventor has even admitted is not very accurate and easily contaminated.
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Old August 5th, 2007, 10:47 PM   #17
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do you mean carbon 14 dating that the inventor has even admitted is not very accurate and easily contaminated.
Like the bible?
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Old August 5th, 2007, 10:50 PM   #18
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do you mean carbon 14 dating that the inventor has even admitted is not very accurate and easily contaminated.
Like the bible?


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All of our supposed facts, on either side, amount to circumstantial evidence in the great scheme of things. Fact is...there will probably be people debating evolution vs intelligent design until the end of days.
Neither side has a solid foot to stand on. Science can only prove so much, and a book written by the hand of man can only be so accurate.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 02:45 PM   #19
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Neither side has a solid foot to stand on. Science can only prove so much, and a book written by the hand of man can only be so accurate.
gotta really agree there, I forgot about that (relating to carbon-14 dating).


Anyway. Back to my main point of the thread. What do you all think is a reasonable way to go about which side may have more merit in their argument? I mean neither side has anything we can say is rock hard proof. I just Don't get why Christians are on such a big push to teach creationism in public schools. I'm against it, not because I am not of that religion. But because it IS based on the religion and by saying it should be in schools, You're saying everyone should believe what you believe. I say if you have religious beliefs that contradict with what public schools teach... home-school or private school your kids. But I'm sure Christians will say they're only showing kids another option... no, you're showing kids god, and a belief, very much unconstitutional. And it will only fair in the states with the devout Christians as a majority.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 02:51 PM   #20
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gotta really agree there, I forgot about that (relating to carbon-14 dating).


Anyway. Back to my main point of the thread. What do you all think is a reasonable way to go about which side may have more merit in their argument? I mean neither side has anything we can say is rock hard proof. I just Don't get why Christians are on such a big push to teach creationism in public schools. I'm against it, not because I am not of that religion. But because it IS based on the religion and by saying it should be in schools, You're saying everyone should believe what you believe. I say if you have religious beliefs that contradict with what public schools teach... home-school or private school your kids. But I'm sure Christians will say they're only showing kids another option... no, you're showing kids god, and a belief, very much unconstitutional. And it will only fair in the states with the devout Christians as a majority.

So do you think that Home schoolers and Private Schools should not be able to teach about Christianity either?
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