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Old August 6th, 2007, 10:53 AM   #61
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If anyone has noticed lately, lots of weird things are being caught out of the ocean, likely due to the changes in our climate that are changing the food webs. Case in point - giant squid. Lots of these caught lately even though they live thousands of feet below the surface. Why are they being caught? Less food below - they have to move closer to the surface to scavenge.

The fish that was caught had phosphorescent eyes, that is a deep-sea creature, much like the deepsea anglerfish. Take a look at the deep sea anglerfish in the attachment. That guy looks prehistoric!

Long story short, the ocean holds a plethora of amazing creatures you will not find anywhere else due to the vastness of its being. And due to that vastness, there is a niche for an enormous amount of diversity, even for a coelecanth.
Yeah, deep sea for sure, but that fact blows out the evolutionists theory that it crawled with its arms. It never even saw shallow water, that is why fishermen rarely catch them.

I just want an evolutionist to be honest enough to say that they were wrong.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 10:59 AM   #62
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To not believe in evolution is to not believe in God. Christians as taught by the church will never get this.

To say that evolution does not exist but God created man as he is, is denying the power of god to mold us. I still can't believe that people are this dumb and easily controlled.

If you don't believe in evolution then you must believe that god created Adam And Eve and we all come from one common line. That line is the same whether you are black, white, yellow, or red. This means that creationism christians are all colorblind and the color they see is not real because different colors and physical attributes would support evolution.

So now for the topic of this thread. The fish never changed because it didn't have to. Evolution is based on a need for change due to environmental and physical changes in the native habitat. Many evolutionary changes have been shown to be quick longterm changes. This means that a sudden shift in evolution happens quickly to correct a need of the species but stays its course once changed.
The question which all of the Christians have in this thread is why not return to the original form? Adaptation is the answer. There are two kinds of adaptation, physical and mental. The physical adaptation is the change in a body part or structure which greatly enhances the ability of an animal to perform an action. The mental adaptation is the change of knowledge and ability to utilize the physical attributes to perform an action. So the answer is that most likely the Fish in question had a mental evolution that allowed it to not need to change physically to live in its habitat.
It is hard to take you seriously when you make an attack against the person instead of an actual weight bearing argument.

You said that creationists have to believe that humans can be black white and yellow, and how that means they are forced to beleive in evolution. You are wrong. A black man is a human, a white man is a human, a chinese man is a human, an arab man is a human, a mexican man is a human. There is no non-humans in the equation. Speciation yes, evolution, no.

Ok, so the reason that the fish remained unchanged for hundred of millions of years old is that is mentally mustered up the strength to survive. Got it. It sounds like it had a heck of a cheering crowd and a superstar coach.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 11:01 AM   #63
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Evolution? hahahaha, think of how stupid that sounds. Like we evolved from other animals. hahahahaha. whatever.



The truth is some dude with his magic powers made the earth, then made the people, and then he had burning bushes talking to him and stuff. But remember, we can't see this magical guy, and he only lives in our thoughts. But one day when we die, we will live with him. And if you don't follow the rules of the invisible man, or if you question the invisible man, then you will be on fire forever when you die.

Thats the guy who made the earth! Not the stupid idea of slow change over time!
Ok, so walking the garden with mankind was not enough. Speaking verbally afterward was not enough. Speaking through all the prophets was not enough. Becoming man and living among us was not enough. Starting a new movement with his spirit was not enough. Did I mention God became flesh and dwelt among us?

blah blah blah blah
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Old August 6th, 2007, 11:05 AM   #64
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Ok, so walking the garden with mankind was not enough. Speaking verbally afterward was not enough. Speaking through all the prophets was not enough. Becoming man and living among us was not enough. Starting a new movement with his spirit was not enough. Did I mention God became flesh and dwelt among us?

blah blah blah blah
according to the book. there are lots of books. do you believe everything that was written? what about zeus? do you believe in zeus? there are a lot of stories about him...
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Old August 6th, 2007, 11:08 AM   #65
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according to the book. there are lots of books. do you believe everything that was written? what about zeus? do you believe in zeus? there are a lot of stories about him...
cmon mike, I can't merit a responce from that.

CC argued from the Bible too, maybe you should tell HIM how unrealistic it is so he won't argue from it either.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 11:57 AM   #66
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so your saying that because of global cooling, the squid has to move to warmer waters where the food is. instead of the colder, deeper water.
Nope. Can you handle a scientific answer? If so, PM me.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 11:58 AM   #67
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So you are claiming this fish looks like this from "Global Warming"!?

Thanks for making my Monday.
Kerwin:

If you are looking for an argument AGAINST evolution - here he is.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 12:34 PM   #68
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CC argued from the Bible too, maybe you should tell HIM how unrealistic it is so he won't argue from it either.

I'm just being logical. Maybe its just because I'm intelligent, but reading or hearing someone talking about how stupid evolution is, makes me laugh when I find out their religious. I'm using the book you base you're argument on, and I'm just pointing out how stupid sounding it is.

Theres a reason that the more educated someone is, the less likely they're involved with some type of religion.

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/rnc...12_30_1899.asp


I'm not saying you're stupid, but it all comes down to facts. You're facts are based on some made up fantasy world which cannot be proven with the scientific method.

If religion brings happiness, or some other feeling, then more power to you, or anybody being religious, but its pointless for me, or anybody else to argue with someone, when their whole basis cannot be proven.

And I know I will hear the "Carbon dating is wrong" :chiefwoohaw: :chiefwoohaw: , even though it has been proven over and over to be accurate.

I'm sure you know of some crazy church website with some made up data on it being false.

Also, research has proven that even the relationship of parent/young reveals numerous subtle changes. Can you imagine what could change over millions of years of this happening?

If every living creature's offspring is DIFFERENT in some way then their parents, then that is evolution.

Unless you still think we look just like adam and eve did in your fantasy world.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 02:34 PM   #69
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Kerwin:

If you are looking for an argument AGAINST evolution - here he is.
Nice, ............I love you too
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Old August 6th, 2007, 02:43 PM   #70
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I'm just being logical. Maybe its just because I'm intelligent, but reading or hearing someone talking about how stupid evolution is, makes me laugh when I find out their religious. I'm using the book you base you're argument on, and I'm just pointing out how stupid sounding it is.

Theres a reason that the more educated someone is, the less likely they're involved with some type of religion.

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/rnc...12_30_1899.asp


I'm not saying you're stupid, but it all comes down to facts. You're facts are based on some made up fantasy world which cannot be proven with the scientific method.

If religion brings happiness, or some other feeling, then more power to you, or anybody being religious, but its pointless for me, or anybody else to argue with someone, when their whole basis cannot be proven.

And I know I will hear the "Carbon dating is wrong" :chiefwoohaw: :chiefwoohaw: , even though it has been proven over and over to be accurate.

I'm sure you know of some crazy church website with some made up data on it being false.

Also, research has proven that even the relationship of parent/young reveals numerous subtle changes. Can you imagine what could change over millions of years of this happening?

If every living creature's offspring is DIFFERENT in some way then their parents, then that is evolution.

Unless you still think we look just like adam and eve did in your fantasy world.
Wow, never expected this...........

I have to dissagree with your point CC because you are talking about minor appearance changes. (which for the most part, every Christian I know, agrees with)
What I personally dissagree with is the ability to change from growing scales to growing hair, growing arms and legs instead of growing fins. From what I remember of the teaching of evolution in the "public school" that I went to, evolution (or change) was brought about by a major environment change. I just cant believe that a DNA molecule would be able to evolve in the short amount of time that an enviromental change would occur. (especialy if the evolution change for the invironment, had to occur over several generations)

But what do I know, I'm now considered, a Moron, and the missing link, apparently.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 03:07 PM   #71
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I saw a book for sale that helped explain the extremely low levels in Lake Superior. Had charts, graphs, and a lengthy explanation.















It was printed in 1926.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 03:35 PM   #72
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Wow, never expected this...........

I have to dissagree with your point CC because you are talking about minor appearance changes. (which for the most part, every Christian I know, agrees with)
What I personally dissagree with is the ability to change from growing scales to growing hair, growing arms and legs instead of growing fins. From what I remember of the teaching of evolution in the "public school" that I went to, evolution (or change) was brought about by a major environment change. I just cant believe that a DNA molecule would be able to evolve in the short amount of time that an enviromental change would occur. (especialy if the evolution change for the invironment, had to occur over several generations)

But what do I know, I'm now considered, a Moron, and the missing link, apparently.

I'm not calling you a moron, I'm just saying as the more people learn about the laws of nature, the less likely they are to be religious.

So you're saying if a outside spider moves to a cave, and its 7th gen offspring doesn't have eyes, thats not a big deal, and thats not evolution. But if an outside spider moves to a cave, and it grows a tail to swim, its a big deal?

Where do you draw the line on evolution? IMO, records of animal changes aren't that long. We only have documentation of around a couple hundred years of animals and people. That is .000000000000001% of the total life of the earth, since it was formed. Or to put it in perspective, 1 second out of 11,000 years.

I don't find it hard to believe that this small bit of changes that we have witnessed could change drastically over millions upon millions of years.

Back on proof of evolution. I'm pretty sure that we (humans) have 98% of the same gene segments that chimps have. What can explain that? Theres not very many creatures that share the same gene makeup.

Take a look at this reading:
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pag...74&pageindex=1

I know its only fruit flys, but don't you find that pretty amazing? Totally different cell structures from the mating of the same species, to yield a new species?

Thats evolution...


Another thing that I find really odd, How come of all the dinosaur bones, and million year old fossils that we have found, have we NEVER came upon something that is anything like we have today?

Why do we find perfect fossils in old tar pits of dinosaurs but nothing like we have today. Don't you think we would find old human bones somewhere?

Nothing adds up to say that people were around towards the beginning of the earth, or even many thousands of years ago. You would think one single fossil could prove the theory of creatism, but there has never even been one thing found to support that theory.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 03:39 PM   #73
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I thought this thread was going to be about grandman...
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Old August 6th, 2007, 03:41 PM   #74
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I thought this thread was going to be about grandman...
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Old August 6th, 2007, 03:42 PM   #75
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BTW, these kerwin threads always crack me up. Its always kerwin saying something to 'debate' then telling you its fact and there's no other point of view. 50 people respond, then kerwin will write fifty responses telling them they are stupid and wrong. Then ford styleside XLT pickup will come in and say thats not evolution, thats jesus taking the salamanders eyes so that he may see the lord.

All from a guy who hates his parents for telling him there's an easter bunny.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 04:55 PM   #76
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BTW, these kerwin threads always crack me up. Its always kerwin saying something to 'debate' then telling you its fact and there's no other point of view. 50 people respond, then kerwin will write fifty responses telling them they are stupid and wrong. Then ford styleside XLT pickup will come in and say thats not evolution, thats jesus taking the salamanders eyes so that he may see the lord.

All from a guy who hates his parents for telling him there's an easter bunny.

:tonka: :tonka: :tonka: :tonka: :tonka: :tonka: :tonka: :tonka:

I guess you want a reason why I post in reply to these threads, its a major character flaw on my part.

When somebody tries to harm, debunk, or destroy something I Love and/or believe in, I imediately go on the defensive. (which is what some of you e-thugs are trying to get me to do anyway) Most people don't have a problem with my personality, because if you are a friend/loved one of mine I will cover your back or help you out anyway that I can.

Some people love to agitate people. I am one who tries to defend and help.

If you request, I will stop posting in this forum.

Sorry, but that's me.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 05:16 PM   #77
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BTW, these kerwin threads always crack me up. Its always kerwin saying something to 'debate' then telling you its fact and there's no other point of view. 50 people respond, then kerwin will write fifty responses telling them they are stupid and wrong.
I usually don't start topics in this forum, but I wanted to talk about a particular fish caught earlier this week. If you want to talk about the fish, then talk about it. If you find I am wrong, then show me, specifically, but don't take it off topic, don't straw man or ad hominem.

So who is stupid? Me for making a logical conclusion about a fish that was claimed to be extinct 300 million years ago or the scientists who were found out wrong but not owning up to it?
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Old August 6th, 2007, 05:19 PM   #78
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I usually don't start topics in this forum, but I wanted to talk about a particular fish caught earlier this week. If you want to talk about the fish, then talk about it. If you find I am wrong, then show me, specifically, but don't take it off topic, don't straw man or ad hominem.

So who is stupid? Me for making a logical conclusion about a fish that was claimed to be extinct 300 million years ago or the scientists who were found out wrong but not owning up to it?
We are having salmon for dinner. That guy doesn't look like he will grill up as good.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 05:24 PM   #79
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1. We only have documentation of around a couple hundred years of animals and people. That is .000000000000001% of the total life of the earth, since it was formed. Or to put it in perspective, 1 second out of 11,000 years. I don't find it hard to believe that this small bit of changes that we have witnessed could change drastically over millions upon millions of years.

2. Back on proof of evolution. I'm pretty sure that we (humans) have 98% of the same gene segments that chimps have. What can explain that? Theres not very many creatures that share the same gene makeup.

3. Another thing that I find really odd, How come of all the dinosaur bones, and million year old fossils that we have found, have we NEVER came upon something that is anything like we have today? Why do we find perfect fossils in old tar pits of dinosaurs but nothing like we have today. Don't you think we would find old human bones somewhere? Nothing adds up to say that people were around towards the beginning of the earth, or even many thousands of years ago. You would think one single fossil could prove the theory of creatism, but there has never even been one thing found to support that theory.
1. That is IF the Earth is that old, why do you assume it is? Because evolution HAS to have that much age, or because we know for sure it is?

2. Our genetic makeup is similar, we both have thumbs, etc. Yet we are very different. Can you mate with a chimp and have a chimp-human baby? No. Our genes are not compatible. Just because a small dog and a cat are similar in structure does not mean they must have come from an ancient ancestor.

3. That is a really good question. Perhaps the size of bones puts dinosars at a great advantage to be found. But even a better question is why there are no legitimate transitional fossils. Just because a skull had a prominent eye ridge does not make the guy a monkey. Like someone said earlier, there are plenty of people like that today. Further, the Bible accounts for men living hundred of years back in the day. If that is the case, look how old men's facial features grow, and how their brow bone thickens. That is a bit off topic, but just because few human bones are found does not support evolution any more than it denies it.
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Old August 6th, 2007, 06:14 PM   #80
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Cliffs:

If its something you want to believe in, no proof is necessary, its faith.

If you don't want it to be true, you want mountains of proof otherwise.



Its just funny how this works. Not unexpected, though. Christians have fought for over a thousand years to twist things to combat their own irrellevance
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