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Old July 30th, 2007, 12:51 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Mike Hancho View Post
My statement might have been ignorant but so was yours with the go to the hospital and get service...




resulting in name calling doesn't do you any good...and my wife is a teacher and i think they are far under paid
If you have an emergency the hospital cannot turn you away by law. :miff: If you don't know that then I really question your ability to give a valid opinion on anything
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Old July 30th, 2007, 12:52 PM   #62
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Look at how Social Security has been mismanaged and stolen from.

IMHO, public healthcare would give the government another source of money to "borrow" from. Of course they can't repay it and what do you think will happen? Think you'll get quality service when there's not enough money to support the infrastructure?

We'll get taxed more to cover the costs and then still end up buying supplementary healthcare and go outside the system to the private sector and pay again for what we should be receiving for "free".

Healthcare is NOT a right. Don't see anything about "Life, Liberty, and a free hospital stay" anywhere in the constitution, however, mamby-pamby bleeding hearts think every person should live regardless of what's wrong. We're bypassing millions of years of evolution in order to protect the weak, whom I might add, go on to reproduce more weak offspring.

Sure, flame me for being heartless, but think of all the people this currently protects and costs the healthcare system. Sickly, diseased people that would've died if they were born in the timeframe the constitution was written. Oh wait, they did, and nobody wrote healthcare into the constitution.

But human being are compassionate, right? We're better than animals, right?

No, we're not.

We're still animals, for fukc 's sake. You want to eat? You get a damn job like the rest of society, srounge in the garbage or hunt for your food. You want healthcare? You pay for it like the rest of society.

Bah.
That's the best arguement I've read on the topic or least the one that I understood.



Sorry 'bout the "lips on Butt" ScOoTeR.
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Old July 30th, 2007, 12:53 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
Look at how Social Security has been mismanaged and stolen from.

IMHO, public healthcare would give the government another source of money to "borrow" from. Of course they can't repay it and what do you think will happen? Think you'll get quality service when there's not enough money to support the infrastructure?

We'll get taxed more to cover the costs and then still end up buying supplementary healthcare and go outside the system to the private sector and pay again for what we should be receiving for "free".

Healthcare is NOT a right. Don't see anything about "Life, Liberty, and a free hospital stay" anywhere in the constitution, however, mamby-pamby bleeding hearts think every person should live regardless of what's wrong. We're bypassing millions of years of evolution in order to protect the weak, whom I might add, go on to reproduce more weak offspring.

Sure, flame me for being heartless, but think of all the people this currently protects and costs the healthcare system. Sickly, diseased people that would've died if they were born in the timeframe the constitution was written. Oh wait, they did, and nobody wrote healthcare into the constitution.

But human being are compassionate, right? We're better than animals, right?

No, we're not.

We're still animals, for fukc 's sake. You want to eat? You get a damn job like the rest of society, srounge in the garbage or hunt for your food. You want healthcare? You pay for it like the rest of society.

Bah.

Scooter for president
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Old July 30th, 2007, 12:57 PM   #64
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you have missed the point...you cannot go to the county hospital and get treatment for cancer or get dialysis...ect As far as emergancy treatment, yes you will not be turned away, in most cases...
You can, it's just not FREE. There are also free clinics that take care of the everyday medical problems. I do not understand why you think it should be free. I am most confused about why you feel it is a "right". Someone provides a service, and you feel that you should have that service for free. What other service do you think should be free? Cable TV? Gasoline? Car repair? How about car insurance? How about electricity?
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Old July 30th, 2007, 12:59 PM   #65
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I can tell from your posts that you cant appreciate the 8-12 years of schooling that the doctors have to put in. I have great health care, and I pay for it. I made the decision to go to college and get a good job. Health care is not a right. The government isnt obligated to give you anything except certain freedoms. I am not interested in pay out money to support others against my will. I give to a lot of charities but I do it when I want to.
I get so sick of people thinking that because they have made bad decisions in life that others should carry their burden.
Heath care is not a right but a basic education is? Maybe they should stop sending kids to school...then only the ones who truly want learn will take the time and do so, and should have to pay for it. I don't have kids but should I bitch about my tax dollars being spent on the schools...I also made the decision to go to college, have a great job that I love, and great health benifits, but as with everyones those benifits are slowly disappearing, co-pays go up, more restrictions..ect I shouldn't have to worry about if I'm going to have medical issurance when I retire, nobody should...

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Old July 30th, 2007, 01:01 PM   #66
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If you have an emergency the hospital cannot turn you away by law. :miff: If you don't know that then I really question your ability to give a valid opinion on anything
read post #55...everyone knows that
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Old July 30th, 2007, 01:24 PM   #67
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Heath care is not a right but a basic education is? Maybe that should stop sending kids to school...then only the ones who truly want learn will take the time and do so, and should have to pay for it. I don't have kids but should I bitch about my tax dollars being spent on the schools...I also made the decision to go to college, have a great job that I love, and great health benifits, but as with everyones those benifits are slowly disappearing, co-pays go up, more restrictions..ect I shouldn't have to worry about if I'm going to have medical issurance when I retire, nobody should...

School isnt free.. I pay a pretty hefty amount of property taxes every year to pay for the schools :miff:
Also there is the stupid mans tax aka the lottery.
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Old July 30th, 2007, 01:32 PM   #68
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School isnt free.. I pay a pretty hefty amount of property taxes every year to pay for the schools :miff:
Also there is the stupid mans tax aka the lottery.
Why should I carry the burden to support the school system? I don't have kids. See where I'm going with this...Also the lottery doesn't provide the funding people think it does
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Old July 30th, 2007, 02:13 PM   #69
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Why should I carry the burden to support the school system? I don't have kids. See where I'm going with this...Also the lottery doesn't provide the funding people think it does
The money you pay in taxes for schools / children you do not have is analogous to the inflated healthcare costs you now pay; you're not sending broke people to the hospital, but you are indirectly paying for them.

Difference is, again IMHO, the inflated prices we pay now for healthcare are less than the net cost we would pay for public healthcare.

And by "net cost" I am including money paid out vs. quality of service:

It will either be:

Pay for public healthcare and get mediocre service
OR
Pay for public healthcare AND pay for your own private healthcare so you get the care you want when you want it.
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Old July 30th, 2007, 02:22 PM   #70
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The money you pay in taxes for schools / children you do not have is analogous to the inflated healthcare costs you now pay; you're not sending broke people to the hospital, but you are indirectly paying for them.

Difference is, again IMHO, the inflated prices we pay now for healthcare are less than the net cost we would pay for public healthcare.

And by "net cost" I am including money paid out vs. quality of service:

It will either be:

Pay for public healthcare and get mediocre service
OR
Pay for public healthcare AND pay for your own private healthcare so you get the care you want when you want it.

I don't see how they are proportionate, but maybe I would have a better argument to say that I shouldn't have to worry about if I'm going to have quality health care covarage when I retire. All those benifits that most of us are used to having are disappearing...there for health care should be a right..and I mean quality heath care so please don't come back with that BS medicare and medicade
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Old July 30th, 2007, 02:33 PM   #71
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I don't see how they are proportionate, but maybe I would have a better argument to say that I shouldn't have to worry about if I'm going to have quality health care covarage when I retire. All those benifits that most of us are used to having are disappearing...there for health care should be a right..and I mean quality heath care so please don't come back with that BS medicare and medicade

I have great health benefits. I have a PPO where I can chose my own doctors and see any specialist I want. I pay(I know.. god forbid anyone do that ) a premium to have a PPO but that is the choice that I made.
Two years ago I had a major heart problem. I was hospitalized twice for weeks at a time. I only paid 900 dollars out of pocket.
Now I see a fertility doctor and I pay $20 for each copay plus copays on my prescriptions. I see several other doctors too, but I dont feel bad about it because I pay around $200 a month for the freedom to see who I want when I want.
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Old July 30th, 2007, 02:38 PM   #72
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I don't see how they are proportionate, but maybe I would have a better argument to say that I shouldn't have to worry about if I'm going to have quality health care covarage when I retire. All those benifits that most of us are used to having are disappearing...there for health care should be a right..and I mean quality heath care so please don't come back with that BS medicare and medicade
BS medicare and medicaid?

Funny you mention this - my parents retired with a good insurance plan but found out that medicare covered more of my mother's prescription medication than what they had. So, they dumped their insurance, picked up medicare and bought a supplemental policy for what medicare did not cover. Cut their costs by about 75%.

Now, this may be a special case, as my mother has rheumatoid arthritis and gets infusions of remacade every 3 weeks (I think it's about $1300 each time). Anyway, medicare doesn't seem so bad in this case.

You mention wanting healthcare as a right for later in life when you retire, which is a valid concern. Have you thought about who would probably be the biggest losers in public healthcare? IMHO, it would be the elderly. When I was an EMT, I saw how the elderly were treated in retirement homes they paid good money to stay in. Poor living conditions, staff that didn't care and long waits for medical care.

I think public healthcare would be the last thing you would want when you become an old fart.
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Old July 30th, 2007, 02:42 PM   #73
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Michael Moore is the biggest pile of shit this side of iraq
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Old July 30th, 2007, 02:45 PM   #74
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I have great health benefits. I have a PPO where I can chose my own doctors and see any specialist I want. I pay(I know.. god forbid anyone do that ) a premium to have a PPO but that is the choice that I made.
Two years ago I had a major heart problem. I was hospitalized twice for weeks at a time. I only paid 900 dollars out of pocket.
Now I see a fertility doctor and I pay $20 for each copay plus copays on my prescriptions. I see several other doctors too, but I dont feel bad about it because I pay around $200 a month for the freedom to see who I want when I want.


It seems like you missed the boat...I went from paying nothing to paying a few dollars a month to soon it's going to be $100's a month(for a PPO)...I went from no co-pay per visit, $2 prescriptions to a $10 co-pay and $5 prescriptions...I went from having guarantied heath care when I retire to now I might not have anything at all...we pay for it some how, shit isn't free and I understand that...but I'm looking at it from a retirement stand point I shouldn't have to worry about that...whats to say you couldn't see any doctor you wanted with a social health care system? I would say I've earned my right to a quality heath care..

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Old July 30th, 2007, 02:48 PM   #75
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Now, this may be a special case, as my mother has rheumatoid arthritis and gets infusions of remacade every 3 weeks (I think it's about $1300 each time). Anyway, medicare doesn't seem so bad in this case.

I don't think thats the norm....but glad it worked out for your parents
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Old July 30th, 2007, 02:55 PM   #76
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Michael Moore is the biggest pile of shit this side of iraq
x infinity
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Old July 30th, 2007, 03:01 PM   #77
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whats to say you couldn't see any doctor you wanted with a social health care system? I would say I've earned my right to a quality heath care..
What you say doesn't mean anything. Look at Canada. They have to go where3 they are told, see who they are told to see and have to follow special rules to see specialists. Many things that aren't deemed "necessary" by the government are not paid for and if you want those services you either have to pay for it all, or carry another private pay policy. And don't even think of going out of the country...they don't pay for anything if you are in a different country.

So sure, you can have quality, but the government decides what is quality, not YOU.

And you still haven't answered my other question. I didn't think you would though.
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Old July 30th, 2007, 03:02 PM   #78
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It seems like you missed the boat...I went from paying nothing to paying a few dollars a month to soon it's going to be $100's a month(for a PPO)...I went from no co-pay per visit, $2 prescriptions to a $10 co-pay and $5 prescriptions...I went from having guarantied heath care when I retire to now I might not have anything at all...we pay for it some how, shit isn't free and I understand that...but I'm looking at it from a retirement stand point I shouldn't have to worry about that...whats to say you couldn't see any doctor you wanted with a social health care system? I would say I've earned my right to a quality heath care..
It is called saving for retirement. Hell my husband is only 27 and he already has almost as much as me saved for retirement. You cant say oh I am going to be old.. someone has to take care of me... You have to be proactive about it.
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Old July 30th, 2007, 03:43 PM   #79
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It seems like you missed the boat...I went from paying nothing to paying a few dollars a month to soon it's going to be $100's a month(for a PPO)...I went from no co-pay per visit, $2 prescriptions to a $10 co-pay and $5 prescriptions...I went from having guarantied heath care when I retire to now I might not have anything at all...we pay for it some how, shit isn't free and I understand that...but I'm looking at it from a retirement stand point I shouldn't have to worry about that...whats to say you couldn't see any doctor you wanted with a social health care system? I would say I've earned my right to a quality heath care..
I have insurance through work too. It is better than nothing and I am not about to go without it. My co-pay for perscrips blows goats though. My doctor just took me off a premium med for MS. No generic available whatsoever. My co-pay was over $260 a flippin' month (had to get a new supply once a month). My out-of-pocket was at $1700 max. You think I couldn't think of a ton of truck parts I couldn't get with that co-pay?
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Old July 30th, 2007, 03:53 PM   #80
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What you say doesn't mean anything. Look at Canada. They have to go where3 they are told, see who they are told to see and have to follow special rules to see specialists. Many things that aren't deemed "necessary" by the government are not paid for and if you want those services you either have to pay for it all, or carry another private pay policy. And don't even think of going out of the country...they don't pay for anything if you are in a different country.

So sure, you can have quality, but the government decides what is quality, not YOU.

And you still haven't answered my other question. I didn't think you would though.

First off, this isn't Canada so why are you assuming if we had a social heath care system it would be modeled after theirs. Second, you had another question?
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