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Old July 13th, 2007, 11:35 PM   #61
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If it's fer me don't, you aint went over the line yet. Besides, believe it or not you do me some good.
How do I do you some good? just wondering.
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Old July 13th, 2007, 11:59 PM   #62
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Who cares what the pope says? Seriously. He's just some dude in power that rambles on about whatever he wants. Just like Jessie Jackson.
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Old July 14th, 2007, 12:22 AM   #63
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How do I do you some good? just wondering.
I ment Dave biting his tongue.


But you give me hope for the future, the flip side of the doom vwboy and fishy bring to the world.
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Old July 14th, 2007, 12:43 AM   #64
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Can I still get ribs?

Well, ya better hurry....I'm getting kinda tired of all this....maybe I'll keep to my 2012 schedule, after all.



Ribs, BY GOD!
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Old July 14th, 2007, 02:31 AM   #65
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He has potential to be the next Brent.

Zj - that's a good thing.
way more of a follower than brent, a little to brainwashed, and kisses asses sometimes.
unlike brent
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Old July 14th, 2007, 07:14 AM   #66
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way more of a follower than brent, a little to brainwashed, and kisses asses sometimes.
unlike brent
Brent has 2 years on him, give it time. Although, he is kinda preachy.
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Old July 14th, 2007, 07:47 AM   #67
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If someone analyzes the message of Christ, and if that person decides to believe the account is true, then that person knows that there is severe exclusivity to heaven. While the way to heaven is extremely limited, the requirement is VERY minimal. The answer is simple: faith alone in Christ alone. Jesus said: I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me.

So if we are going to discuss the way to heaven, and it be inside the context of a Christian discussion, then there is no doubt what it is. Jesus DID say he iwas the ONLY way to heaven, but the reason the gospel is called the good news is because we are not obligated to live a perfect life to qualify. We obtain heaven by our faith in Jesus. When we confess with our mouths and believe in our hearts that Jesus was the one and he raised from the dead, we are then saved from our sins. We can never do enough good things to be pleasing to a perfect God. We can, however, do our best and give our faith, and recieve eternal life for free (again, by faith alone in Christ alone).
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Old July 14th, 2007, 02:50 PM   #68
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yup, but jews still can go to heaven and they dont accept Christ as the son of God.

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Jesus said: I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me.

We can, however, do our best and give our faith, and recieve eternal life for free (again, by faith alone in Christ alone).
So, jews go to hell?
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Old July 14th, 2007, 03:02 PM   #69
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So, jews go to hell?
the one that did my 03 taxes better
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Old July 14th, 2007, 03:18 PM   #70
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the one that did my 03 taxes better
You but out, ever since you took those pics of Jesus with that stripper in Detroit and got your get outa hell free card, you've been to cocky.
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Old July 14th, 2007, 04:16 PM   #71
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So, jews go to hell?
you tell me, I quoted the master
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Old July 14th, 2007, 04:49 PM   #72
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you tell me, I quoted the master
Yes?
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Old July 14th, 2007, 04:54 PM   #73
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Yes?
That would be a fair conclusion.

If the Messiah was always to come, then the showed up and they ignored him, then they have condemned themselves. God setup the rules of the universe, and while his qualifications for heaven are exclusive, his requirements for mankind is very limited. All God wants is your faith to obtain eternal life. He does not want anyone to perish, he wants all to be with him (as he said), but not all will confess faith and believe. If they did, eternal life is immediate, on the spot, without cost.
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Old July 15th, 2007, 06:43 PM   #74
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Catholicism and exclusivity are bedfellows, and they always have been. Benedict is just keepin it real.
Before you choose to speak for the Catholic faith you should get your facts straight. Catholocism is among the very few who believe we are all children of God with an equal chance for salvation. The only exclusivity in my Catholic faith is the belief in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist, hence the belief that if you partake of the host as a non-believer, you are in essence belittling our beliefs.

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Benedict is not making a new way of thinking, he is simply upholding what was already in place.

See my comments above. The Catholics NO LONGER believe that our faith is the ONLY way but maybe the BEST way to salvation....like using the mapquest feature for shortest distance.

When Jesus said the would build his church upon the Apostle Peter (whom he called the rock), he basically told Peter he was the new head honcho and he was responsible for calling the shots and making it happen. Peter surely did so (he was also the same guy who denied Jesus 3 times). So anyway, Catholics say that Peter was the first Pope, and that such a legacy has been handed down since then, and others not under that authority are not following the true succession of Christ. It kinda makes sense, but not when the authority is placed on sinful man to speak "as God" (or, "from the throne of Peter). Peter's words were never above Jesus', he was simply replacing the leadership position that was left void when Jesus ascended.

The pope doesn't speak "as God" and he is the first to admit sin, unlike so many others. If you are speaking about infallibility, you should read up on it because the Pope cannot speak infallibly on anything he chooses. There have only been 2 (yes TWO) infallible statements made by Popes in the 2000 year history of Christianity.

Personally, I don't follow man, I follow Jesus. So if everyone just followed the word of God and the life of Christ, it would not matter about a Pope, because the Pope is subject to the authority of God's word anyhow. I am not suggesting that we disobey governing authorities, but I am suggesting we set our master straight.
The Pope is not my authority, simply a spiritual leader. He would never condemn a fellow Christian.

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"Catholic" means "Universal", and the intent of the Catholic Church is to be the only church, the universal church.
This statement is inflammatory. You perpetuate a myth of the Catholic faith like we are automatons following a Brainwashing mentor. The beliefs of the Catholic church today are as follows: ALL faiths have truths, all can lead to salvation, and the role of salvation is between ourselves and God not any other man can determine our fate. The term
catholic (notice the lower case) means universal. The term Catholic (with an uppercase) is the name of my faith. As a Catholic, my apostolic role is to bring the word of God to others in my life in the best ways I can.


Be careful Dave, You aren't the only one who knows their stuff. You should try not to be so judgemental or perpetuate ancient myths.
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Old July 15th, 2007, 07:09 PM   #75
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Before you choose to speak for the Catholic faith you should get your facts straight. Catholocism is among the very few who believe we are all children of God with an equal chance for salvation.
And maybe you should get your facts straight before making general statements about other faiths. Nearly all Christian denominations believe we are all children of God with an equal chance for salvation.
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Old July 15th, 2007, 08:15 PM   #76
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And maybe you should get your facts straight before making general statements about other faiths. Nearly all Christian denominations believe we are all children of God with an equal chance for salvation.
I said among the few. Not the only. I believe ALL Christian faiths believe we are children of God. There are many other faiths besides Christian.
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Old July 15th, 2007, 08:16 PM   #77
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And maybe you should get your facts straight before making general statements about other faiths. Nearly all Christian denominations believe we are all children of God with an equal chance for salvation.
Name me any Christian faith that believes otherwise.
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Old July 15th, 2007, 08:48 PM   #78
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Before you choose to speak for the Catholic faith you should get your facts straight. Catholocism is among the very few who believe we are all children of God with an equal chance for salvation. The only exclusivity in my Catholic faith is the belief in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist, hence the belief that if you partake of the host as a non-believer, you are in essence belittling our beliefs.



The Pope is not my authority, simply a spiritual leader. He would never condemn a fellow Christian.



This statement is inflammatory. You perpetuate a myth of the Catholic faith like we are automatons following a Brainwashing mentor. The beliefs of the Catholic church today are as follows: ALL faiths have truths, all can lead to salvation, and the role of salvation is between ourselves and God not any other man can determine our fate. The term
catholic (notice the lower case) means universal. The term Catholic (with an uppercase) is the name of my faith. As a Catholic, my apostolic role is to bring the word of God to others in my life in the best ways I can.


Be careful Dave, You aren't the only one who knows their stuff. You should try not to be so judgemental or perpetuate ancient myths.
I was not speaking of salvation, I was speaking about Catholicism claiming authority over Christiandom.

The Pope is more than just a spiritual leader, he is on the top of the Catholic totem pole. He is the final say on matters of the Catholic Church. He even as the power to speak for God from the throne of Peter. I never said he abused this power, I simply highlighted the ability. I know what infallibility is, and it is a doctrine I DISAGREE with. I grew up going to Catholic schools, so I heard it all. I don't think man should have the power to speak as God, regardless of how often he uses said ability.

All faiths have truth? All faiths leads to salvation? Can you clarify what you mean here?

And since you are getting into details, are you sure you are an apostle?
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Old July 15th, 2007, 10:33 PM   #79
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I said among the few. Not the only. I believe ALL Christian faiths believe we are children of God. There are many other faiths besides Christian.
that was my point. Your original comment made it sound like you thought it was a uniquely Catholic idea, rather than a common Christian one
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Old July 15th, 2007, 11:17 PM   #80
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I was not speaking of salvation, I was speaking about Catholicism claiming authority over Christiandom.

Catholicism isn't what it was in the middle ages. I don't think you have moved on. I was taught that all men are born with the chance to accept Christ or not. It's called free will. I do not claim authority over Christianity. I do not belittle others Christian faiths. I do not suppose that my way of living my faith is better because I do or do not believe in certain things.....do you? Do you feel like a better Christian because you do not believe in the Catholic way?


The Pope is more than just a spiritual leader, he is on the top of the Catholic totem pole. He is the final say on matters of the Catholic Church. He even as the power to speak for God from the throne of Peter. I never said he abused this power, I simply highlighted the ability. I know what infallibility is, and it is a doctrine I DISAGREE with. I grew up going to Catholic schools, so I heard it all. I don't think man should have the power to speak as God, regardless of how often he uses said ability.

I grew up in Catholic schools, I still take theology classes in Catholic theology (as well as other faiths). The Pope is a spiritual leader. The fact that you perpetuate the MYTH that the Pope can speak as God shows that you do not know what infallibility is. I guess you didn't "hear it all".

All faiths have truth? All faiths leads to salvation? Can you clarify what you mean here?

I do believe (as Pope John Paul II said) that all faiths have inherent truths to them. Buddhism, Judiasm, Hinduism, Islam, they all teach a fundamental goodness of mankind and desire to be gentle to others. I didn't say all faiths lead to salvation. I said that all men are born with an equal chance at salvation and can accept it or not.


And since you are getting into details, are you sure you are an apostle?
My definition of apostolic faith is one that compels it's believers to go forth and spread the Good News of Christ. I believe it is my job to spread the Gospel in the best ways I can.

The word "Apostle", from the Greek apostello "to send forth", "to dispatch", has etymologically a very general sense. Apostolos (Apostle) means one who is sent forth, dispatched--in other words, who is entrusted with a mission, rather, a foreign mission. It has, however, a stronger sense than the word messenger, and means as much as a delegate.

What I find most disturbing here is the trend to try and discredit another Christian faith. Why do you (and others) who are Christian find it so compelling to tear down my belief system? Do you think this is a credit to Christianity? I was taught as a Catholic that I am one in the Body of Christ with ALL my fellow Christians not just Catholics. I was taught that we, as Christians, are all in this together. I celebrate and am grateful to any denomination or lack of it that brings anyone to the Word of God and belief in our Lord Jesus. I do not waste time trying to discredit or spread out of date myths about another denomination...that is a waste and anti Christian.
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