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Old July 18th, 2007, 07:15 AM   #61
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I do think we need to cut back on petro use and develop something else. To be honest, I wonder WTF is taking it so long. We should have cars capable of 50+ mpg with all the technology out there.

I don't think the Earth is getting warmer though. We were all gonna freeze 20 years ago.
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Old July 18th, 2007, 10:26 AM   #62
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I do think we need to cut back on petro use and develop something else. To be honest, I wonder WTF is taking it so long. We should have cars capable of 50+ mpg with all the technology out there.
simple, BIG OIL with BIG MONEY. They will play the game as long as the resource is available, and then worry about the next big thing. At this point they have so much power over the way business spends thier resources that they can charge however much they want for fuel under the guise of supply/demand. There is a good reason no new refineries are being built, there is no money in it for big oil. If they increase the supply the price will go down, and what accountant at what oil company thinks that is a good idea?

In the meantime, I will drive my V-8 at about 5mph slower on the e-way to gain about 2-3 mpg, but that is for my pocketbook, not some myth about the world getting too hot. (btw my jeep gets better mileage with a V-8 than my windstar did with a V-6, put that in your hippie pipe and smoke it )
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Old July 18th, 2007, 12:37 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by mistertwisty View Post
simple, BIG OIL with BIG MONEY. They will play the game as long as the resource is available, and then worry about the next big thing. At this point they have so much power over the way business spends thier resources that they can charge however much they want for fuel under the guise of supply/demand. There is a good reason no new refineries are being built, there is no money in it for big oil. If they increase the supply the price will go down, and what accountant at what oil company thinks that is a good idea?

In the meantime, I will drive my V-8 at about 5mph slower on the e-way to gain about 2-3 mpg, but that is for my pocketbook, not some myth about the world getting too hot. (btw my jeep gets better mileage with a V-8 than my windstar did with a V-6, put that in your hippie pipe and smoke it )
There is so much inaccurate information in this post I don't know where to start!

1) How does "Big Oil" have control over other businesses spend their resources?

Answer: They don't.

2) If they can charge "whatever they want" why aren't they charging a billion dollars a gallon?

Answer: Competition within a free market limits the price.

3) Supply and demand isn't a guise, it's one result of a free market.

4) Refineries aren't being built because of Government restrictions. Restrictions that are in place because of lobbying envronmentalists & the NIMBY crowd.

I'd say that more refineries will increase demand, not supply, because it will increase available gas supplies, the price will go down, and people will stop buying diesels and hybrids and start burning more gas.

Raising the price of something doesn't always result in more profit. It can very likely result in loss of customers and less profit.



Sorry, but you swallowed the hippie pipe and all the b.s. that was packed inside.

Go read "Basic Econmics" by Thomas Sowell, it will explain the truth to you better than I ever could.
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Old July 18th, 2007, 12:41 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post
There is so much inaccurate information in this post I don't know where to start!

1) How does "Big Oil" have control over other businesses spend their resources?

Answer: They don't.

2) If they can charge "whatever they want" why aren't they charging a billion dollars a gallon?

Answer: Competition within a free market limits the price.

3) Supply and demand isn't a guise, it's one result of a free market.

4) Refineries aren't being built because of Government restrictions. Restrictions that are in place because of lobbying envronmentalists & the NIMBY crowd.

I'd say that more refineries will increase demand, not supply, because it will increase available gas supplies, the price will go down, and people will stop buying diesels and hybrids and start burning more gas.

Raising the price of something doesn't always result in more profit. It can very likely result in loss of customers and less profit.



Sorry, but you swallowed the hippie pipe and all the b.s. that was packed inside.

Go read "Basic Econmics" by Thomas Sowell, it will explain the truth to you better than I ever could.
I dont really think if more refineries are built that the demand will increase that much. Its always gonna increase b/c more people are driving everyday, but at $3 a gal. people havent cut back a whole lot, maybe just a bit.
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Old July 18th, 2007, 01:28 PM   #65
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the reason why we don't have 50+ mpg cars is because people don't buy them.

their were several models in the early 90's/late 80's that could get near 50 mpg, but nobody bought them because gas was cheap, then in the late 90's gas was practically free. fuel efficient cars are typically slow, small wedges that people are afraid to be seen in.

then there is the whole world of safety, that a lot of times the easiest way for a car to meet safety specs is to throw more weight at it and people want their cars to be quiet(more weight), they want aircondtioning (more weight and more fuel burned).

its not that they can't make 50 mpg cars, its that nobody wants them(in the US), but that might change soon. and as always import car makes well lead the way, because thats what they have always been doing is building fuel efficient cars.
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Old July 18th, 2007, 02:17 PM   #66
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The imports will probably have the small car market but the truck market will be dominated by the US for a little longer at least. Since imports dont make as good a truck and US trucks get better mpg.
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Old July 18th, 2007, 03:24 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Scottie View Post
the reason why we don't have 50+ mpg cars is because people don't buy them.

their were several models in the early 90's/late 80's that could get near 50 mpg, but nobody bought them because gas was cheap, then in the late 90's gas was practically free. fuel efficient cars are typically slow, small wedges that people are afraid to be seen in.

then there is the whole world of safety, that a lot of times the easiest way for a car to meet safety specs is to throw more weight at it and people want their cars to be quiet(more weight), they want aircondtioning (more weight and more fuel burned).

its not that they can't make 50 mpg cars, its that nobody wants them(in the US), but that might change soon. and as always import car makes well lead the way, because thats what they have always been doing is building fuel efficient cars.
Csaba Csere in Car & Driver did an editorial a while back about something similar. He compared the Honda Civic of the late 70s to the latest one telling how much weight its gained over the years without any real improvement in mileage.

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The imports will probably have the small car market but the truck market will be dominated by the US for a little longer at least. Since imports dont make as good a truck and US trucks get better mpg.
I hope you mean the full-size market. I looked at a new Colorado Crew Cab 4x4 and ended up buying a used Toyota DoubleCab. I would have paid the same for the new Colorado with my discount but no thanks. I plan on keeping the truck for quite a while. Plus there is really no aftermarket for the Colorado/Canyon.
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Old July 18th, 2007, 09:21 PM   #68
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i have always wanted to live in a warmer area.... if it comes to Michigan without me having to relocate then im all for it.
No shit. I wonder if any of these global warming nuts have ever visited MI in February.
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Old July 18th, 2007, 09:23 PM   #69
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Wasn't there a global warming summit/meeting cancelled this year due to snow?
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Old July 19th, 2007, 12:30 AM   #70
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i also pee outside now, saves water from being flushed adds nutrients to the soil, etc
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Old July 24th, 2007, 02:53 PM   #71
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i try do have as many diesels as possible. power and milage are cool.

E-85 from corn is BS. corn is about the biggest feeder out there. corn will deplete the nutrients from the soil in just a couple years. thats why farmers move their corn fields every year. if you think fuels made from corn are saving the earth and reducing fossil fuel usage, look into how many fossil fuels are used in the manufacturing of the fertilizers needed to make corn grow well. soy beans are a much better bet, as they put nutrients back into the ground. too bad soy beans arent worth what corn is. farmers dont plant crops to be enviromental, they plant crops to make money, using fossil fertilizers dont matter.

diesel vehicles however are always more efficient, as there is more power in a gallon of diesel, as there is in gasoline. diesel also takes less to refine it, using even less fossil fuels.

oh, and i jet-ski/snowmobile/ride quads as often as possible, just trying to celebrate our victory over global cooling just a few years ago.
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Old July 24th, 2007, 03:00 PM   #72
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oh, and i jet-ski/snowmobile/ride quads as often as possible, just trying to celebrate our victory over global cooling just a few years ago.


My sis worked for the Michigan Soy Bean Coop years ago. Her boss has always had a diesel truck that would run on soy diesel.
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Old July 27th, 2007, 04:07 PM   #73
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so what are you doing about global warning
Complaining about the fuel costs in my SUV. :gman:
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Old July 28th, 2007, 12:00 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Scottie View Post
the reason why we don't have 50+ mpg cars is because people don't buy them.

their were several models in the early 90's/late 80's that could get near 50 mpg, but nobody bought them because gas was cheap, then in the late 90's gas was practically free. fuel efficient cars are typically slow, small wedges that people are afraid to be seen in.

then there is the whole world of safety, that a lot of times the easiest way for a car to meet safety specs is to throw more weight at it and people want their cars to be quiet(more weight), they want aircondtioning (more weight and more fuel burned).

its not that they can't make 50 mpg cars, its that nobody wants them(in the US), but that might change soon. and as always import car makes well lead the way, because thats what they have always been doing is building fuel efficient cars.
Scottie - fantastic post.
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Old July 28th, 2007, 01:45 PM   #75
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I've been pissing on my neighbors plants and trees in an effort to kill them. I think the globe needs to warm up so we don't have any more winters...those suck
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