Driving in lake superior!!!!! Waahooo! - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Land Use > Rules, Regulations, Trail, and ORV Park Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 14th, 2007, 10:58 PM   #1
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,759
iTrader: (40)
Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default Driving in lake superior!!!!! Waahooo!

xrated spotted this gem of a thread:

From this thread:
http://www.midwestxj.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1102

Quote:
Cool, do you wheel with the Mich Tech 4WD Club?
Couple years ago they took me through their trail system.
Went from McClain State Park, northeast side of the Keewee, ending up on a deserted beach on the southwest side. Drove right into Lake Superior to clean the mud off.
Great guys.
__________________





__________________
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old June 14th, 2007, 11:03 PM   #2
Xrated
ASSHOLE
 
Xrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-15-06
Location: richmond ,mi
Posts: 932
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

And my dumass was more concerned with a sigline at the time..
Dam im slow with the computers..
Xrated is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 12:33 AM   #3
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,175
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

This was nice too:


We (The 4x4 'crowd') obviously have a long way to go before word gets 'out' about what, where, and how to wheel legally, eh???

So much to do, so few man-hours being donated . . .
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 06:52 AM   #4
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 22,376
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Default

Pat,
I'm not so sure that the pic you posted is an issue. It looks like there is a beaver dam on the right that may have blocked up a stream. It is an obvious trail that goes through there & if crossed slowly as the pic shows, I would consider that responsible trail riding.

He's not blasting through spraying water or spinning his tires. It's not erosive and I would think that if it were a hard bottom it could be crossed in 2 wheel drive.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 07:29 AM   #5
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,759
iTrader: (40)
Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default

Anybody ever been to that rocket range? Can you just drive up to that monument and park?

That seems really odd also.
__________________
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 07:46 AM   #6
brewmenn
Grumpy old man.
 
brewmenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Inkster, MI
Posts: 10,585
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Pat,
I'm not so sure that the pic you posted is an issue. It looks like there is a beaver dam on the right that may have blocked up a stream. It is an obvious trail that goes through there & if crossed slowly as the pic shows, I would consider that responsible trail riding.

He's not blasting through spraying water or spinning his tires. It's not erosive and I would think that if it were a hard bottom it could be crossed in 2 wheel drive.
Thats what i was thinking also. It looks like a well established trail that happens to be flooded for some reason.
brewmenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 07:53 AM   #7
Christoff
KC0TRP
 
Christoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-26-06
Location: Houghton MI and Northern MN
Posts: 72
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Christoff Send a message via MSN to Christoff
Default

[QUOTE=clarkstoncracker;587774]xrated spotted this gem of a thread:

From this thread:
http://www.midwestxj.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1102
QUOTE]

I'm sure when Christian gets on here he will give you a better explanation. I know that we have had club members in the past that did drive into Lake Superior with their rigs. At the time they had no idea that it was illegal and since we have found out that it is illegal we make it a point to tell new club members and such about not doing that.
Christoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 07:57 AM   #8
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,759
iTrader: (40)
Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default

[QUOTE=Christoff;588099][QUOTE=clarkstoncracker;587774]xrated spotted this gem of a thread:

From this thread:
http://www.midwestxj.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1102
Quote:

I'm sure when Christian gets on here he will give you a better explanation. I know that we have had club members in the past that did drive into Lake Superior with their rigs. At the time they had no idea that it was illegal and since we have found out that it is illegal we make it a point to tell new club members and such about not doing that.




Thats the point of making posts like this!
__________________
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 08:20 AM   #9
TechJeeper
Formerly "Gr8archer"
 
TechJeeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 2,738
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to TechJeeper
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
Anybody ever been to that rocket range? Can you just drive up to that monument and park?

That seems really odd also.
he isnt on the monument.. looks how narrow it is in the last picture.... :miff:
TechJeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 09:05 AM   #10
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,175
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Pat,
I'm not so sure that the pic you posted is an issue. It looks like there is a beaver dam on the right that may have blocked up a stream. It is an obvious trail that goes through there & if crossed slowly as the pic shows, I would consider that responsible trail riding.

He's not blasting through spraying water or spinning his tires. It's not erosive and I would think that if it were a hard bottom it could be crossed in 2 wheel drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
Thats what i was thinking also. It looks like a well established trail that happens to be flooded for some reason.

Unfortunately, the law and logic don't always agree with each other.
Here's an excerpt:


NATURAL RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ACT (EXCERPT)
Act 451 of 1994

324.81133 Operation of ORV; prohibited acts.

Sec. 81133.

(o) In or upon the waters of any stream, river, bog, wetland, swamp, marsh, or quagmire except over a bridge, culvert, or similar structure.
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 09:11 AM   #11
Jeeperz Creeperz
GL 4x4 Vendors
 
Jeeperz Creeperz's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-08-05
Location: Wyandotte, MI
Posts: 3,127
iTrader: (13)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via AIM to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via MSN to Jeeperz Creeperz Send a message via Yahoo to Jeeperz Creeperz
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
Anybody ever been to that rocket range? Can you just drive up to that monument and park?

That seems really odd also.
Yes, you can.

Also, the guy that posted the pictures is not the same guy that said he drove into Lake Superior....
Jeeperz Creeperz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 09:32 AM   #12
whiterhino
I'm not old, honest...
 
whiterhino's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-07-06
Location: Davisburg MI
Posts: 22,376
iTrader: (22)
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail_Fanatic View Post
Unfortunately, the law and logic don't always agree with each other.
Here's an excerpt:


NATURAL RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ACT (EXCERPT)
Act 451 of 1994

324.81133 Operation of ORV; prohibited acts.

Sec. 81133.

(o) In or upon the waters of any stream, river, bog, wetland, swamp, marsh, or quagmire except over a bridge, culvert, or similar structure.
So does that mean all the folks that we see on the news driving down the road thru a flooded area where a river exceeded the banks should be ticketed? That would constitute driving "in or upon the waters of any stream". In that situation, what's the difference between it being paved or dirt?

The city of New Orleans could have made a fortune.

If I got ticketed for that I would certainly fight it.
whiterhino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 09:39 AM   #13
CreativeFab
used to be Ironman
 
CreativeFab's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-01-05
Location: midland
Posts: 3,215
iTrader: (35)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail_Fanatic View Post
This was nice too:


We (The 4x4 'crowd') obviously have a long way to go before word gets 'out' about what, where, and how to wheel legally, eh???

So much to do, so few man-hours being donated . . .

This pic does not strike me as being a cut and dry illegal operation of a motor vehicle.

Reminds me of the video that was shown recently of the Sandy Corners Jeep outing with the press, same type of water crossing imo.

Now the above quote where the gentleman drove in Lake Sup. BAD BAD BAD
CreativeFab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 09:47 AM   #14
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,759
iTrader: (40)
Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default

I'm guessing the water photo is just a flooded out trail, and not very long.

I'm guessing the photographer is standing on dry land
__________________
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 09:52 AM   #15
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,175
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
So does that mean all the folks that we see on the news driving down the road thru a flooded area where a river exceeded the banks should be ticketed? That would constitute driving "in or upon the waters of any stream". In that situation, what's the difference between it being paved or dirt?

The city of New Orleans could have made a fortune.

If I got ticketed for that I would certainly fight it.

IF they were doing it in Michigan, YES. They could be ticketed.
However, during a flood I would think law enforcment would have larger issues on thier minds.
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 09:56 AM   #16
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,175
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Looking more closely, I think you guys are right.
There don't appear to be any "wetland plants" in the pic.

IF the water is not part of a pond or stream that flows into the Great Lakes AND there aren't any 'wetland' plants in the area, it would just be a large, very clear, puddle.

A puddle would be OK.
The clarity of the water lead me to think it had "flow" though.

Last edited by Trail_Fanatic; June 15th, 2007 at 11:00 AM.
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 10:20 AM   #17
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,759
iTrader: (40)
Mentioned: 156 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default

What about at the mounds? I was there last weekend, and all the ponds were overflowing, and running across the trails.

Is that legal since its in an ORV park?
__________________
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 10:56 AM   #18
Trail_Fanatic
Member since 1994
 
Trail_Fanatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-25-06
Location: Muskegon and Oceana Counties
Posts: 3,175
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default



Starting to see some inconsistency??

It's a designated area during a designated time.

. . . and if we bring it up as a 'reason' why it should be ok everywhere, I'm afraid we'd just see the Mounds closed any time the water rose to a certain level (short of overflow).

We need someone with the time and computer experience to compile the "scientific" studies that are the reasoning behind this 'rule'. Then we'd need to get them reviewed to see if they were designed and conducted in a manner that would yield an honest result.

I had the good fortune of having one of Dr. Charles Nelson's 'studies' reviewed by a group of Professors at GVSU. They found that the 'study' had NOT been designed in a scientific manner. It could NOT have yielded ANY result other than the one it did. I fear poor science is probably rampant throughout the green movement.

We need our ducks in a row before trying to tackle the rules or they'll just start quoting these bad studies as reasoning.

. . . And hey,
If they prove to be scientifically accurate, so be it.
I don't want to harm the very thing I'm out there to enjoy.
But I DO want to have the right to continue to go out there to enjoy it.


IMHO, We need old gravel pits (areas that are considered "previously disturbed") designated all over the State. It seems a logical compromise to me. We still get to romp through the water and climb around, they get us doing it there instead of in the places they don't want it happening. If a desired trail crosses water we put in for a grant and get a culvert installed. That way the trail is still open for use and it's not harming the aquifer.

Know of any on public land??
Preferably adjacent to decent trails.:tonka:

Last edited by Trail_Fanatic; June 15th, 2007 at 11:03 AM.
Trail_Fanatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 11:00 AM   #19
Mclovin
"The Situation"
 
Mclovin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: Westland, Mi
Posts: 14,399
iTrader: (15)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to Mclovin Send a message via Yahoo to Mclovin
Default

Fuck this Im going wheelin in Lake Mi.
Mclovin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 15th, 2007, 11:56 AM   #20
kb8ymf
Not as old as Whiterhino
 
kb8ymf's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-01-06
Location: Dryden,Mi.
Posts: 1,124
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail_Fanatic View Post
Looking more closely, I think you guys are right.
IF the water is not part of a pond or stream that flows into the Great Lakes AND there aren't any 'wetland' plants in the area, it would just be a large, very clear, puddle.
We actually have a letter from the DNR that was printed on the front page of our Boondocker a few years back that states, 'Travel down a road or trail that requires the use of 4WD shall be permitted if the condition is a result of flooding or snow or other tempory condition'.

I've been trying to find someone who has an old copy that we can scan and keep for our records so some of these questionable issues can be clarified.
My opinion, use I see in the picture is legit.
jim-kb8ymf
kb8ymf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > 4x4 Land Use > Rules, Regulations, Trail, and ORV Park Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:15 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.38038 seconds with 81 queries