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Old June 5th, 2007, 09:58 PM   #21
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Things have been worse, wayyyyy worse. My dad's company (masonry) has only done 20 basements this year! We're usually passed 50 by this time so things are shakey right now. All my old man says is "at least its not 1980" or "we'll bounce back, just a rough time". So as bad as it seems, it could always be worse.
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Old June 5th, 2007, 10:33 PM   #22
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Default want vs.need

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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
the sky is falling, the sky is falling.:dunie:

reality check...

there have been other, bigger wars throughout history, eventually they ended and life went on.
Politicians have always been liars and cheats, nothing new there.
One state has to be the crappiest, it just happens to be this one right now
Unemployment is NOT at and all time high, not even close. Go here: http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet and look at the data for the early 1980's

As for having to live paycheck to paycheck and struggling to make expenses I think we're largely done that to ourselves. Most people seem to have forgotten the difference between "want" and "need". A house in the country is a "want". I'm tired of hearing people who drive 40 miles each way from the country to the city complain about how much it costs them in gas to make that drive. I guess you should have thought about that before you moved into an area with few jobs around it. It's your demand for gas that keeps the price high. Cable/satilite TV, cell phone, high speed internet, big car, big houses, large country lots... as much as many people think they "need" these things, they are still just "wants". People lived without these things for years, they could again.
Well said, my grandfather taught my father the diff. between want and need,grandpa had to know the diff, or would not have made it thru his times as well as he did. My father knew the diff. because it was pased on from his father but was not as disciplined as his father. My father passed on the understanding of want vs. need to me, and I know for a fact that I am not as disciplined as my father was, my job is to instill that into my 17 year old son and my 16 year old daughter. In todays world that is tough most of their friends are getting new cars with gas cards and what ever else they want, my kids are paying for their own rides a TJ and XJ when they have no $$ for gas they dont drive. In each generation passing ,our world seems to get softer and softer is the world changing or is society changing the world?????? I feel our kids wiill have more character and be better people if they are raised to know and understand the diff. between want and need ,that is our job as parents. Can we do that???
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Old June 5th, 2007, 10:42 PM   #23
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too much reading wtf
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Old June 5th, 2007, 11:10 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikecraneguy View Post
if they are raised to know and understand the diff. between want and need ,that is our job as parents. Can we do that???
No, I can't. It isn't that I don't want to, but I am lazy. I agree with what you say, and I am ashamed to say I am a #1 enabler of my kids (and their friends). I have gotten somewhat better at expecting a little respect or gratitude but that is non-existant in most kids today.

I love my ungrateful, demanding children


As for this state's condition...I blame unions and the mindset they instilled in the American workers of "entitlements". Just my humble opinion. Another case of something good going horribly wrong and corrupt. Now we have to deal with imported labor and listen to many bitch about it. I have resisted hiring foreign labor so far, but every year it has gotten more difficult to find local help that can pass a basic drug test and show up on a reasonably reliable basis. I pay more than minimum in an industry where minimum wage is the norm. Yet people quit because they can't get their birthday off or they can only get 2 out of the 3 days of the local blissfest music festival off of work. Parents call me complaining when I send home their kids because they wore inappropriate clothing.
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Old June 6th, 2007, 06:30 AM   #25
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too much reading wtf
An excellent example of one of today problems. Did you have a starrring role in the movie "Idiocracy"?
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Old June 6th, 2007, 06:41 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by ScOoTeR View Post
An excellent example of one of today problems. Did you have a starrring role in the movie "Idiocracy"?
Great flick!

MI is one of the few states with full-time politicians too. Most states do fine with part-times. If they are really dedicated to making their state "better", they need to show it.

You would think with the $$ Levin makes, he could afford a whole pair of glasses too.
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Old June 6th, 2007, 09:17 AM   #27
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unemployed yet?

Buy another foreign car, you will be.
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Old June 6th, 2007, 09:44 AM   #28
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I am also in a single income home, and money sure is tight, but cutting out unnecessary stuff sure helps. It takes discipline in spending! I read a book which really helped me, it is an easy read, but with some tough advice: http://www.daveramsey.com/shop/The_T...er_P123C48.cfm
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Old June 6th, 2007, 10:11 AM   #29
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I agree with most of what is being said, but the company I work for (steel fabricator) is VERY busy, we have multiple big dollar jobs and have 2 additional fab shops working for us. BUT, there is a lot that seems to have changed and now is the norm - fuel surcharges on everything, insurance costs all higher, steel, aluminum, and consumables all higher. Obviously all of our prices reflect these higher prices and we are really not feeling the crunch, we just make our quotations good for 10 - 30 days on steel and 1-3 days on stainless steel - no kidding!!

My wife and I both work and I live 28 miles each way from work and my wife works from home. I do not complain about how much my drive costs me, but I do complain about the gas companies "reasons" for the price increases... B.S. If every price fluctuated like gas does, we would all kill each other. They stub there toe and prices go up... stupid, and they do not have to answer to anyone, but let's add to our states gas tax, that would do it.
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Old June 6th, 2007, 11:49 AM   #30
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It isn't that I don't have a sweet ride, or that I want Hillary for President! Crap, then this country would surly be done for. I think Between Clinton, and now what Bush has got us into we are in some real hard times and I think it is only going to get worse before it gets better. I am but at this point it doen't really matter what side you are on. Hillary is saying she is for free trade but there needs to be some rules set forth. Wasn't it her Husband who got that whole thing going? They are all crap!

I'm not for Comunisim or Socialism, hell I don't totaly know what they mean. I have an idea but I think at times our leaders need to step in, and stop some of this. Oil, well I won't hold my breath for Bush or Cheney to step in because, that would hurt their wallets. So make everyone suffer, how is it that gas prices just sky rocket! Demand? Well I think it is Greed. Instead of being real rich, No they need to be insanely rich. I live in Fowlerville and work in Farmington. Big difference in area as well as household income yet Gas is generally 10 cents or more higher than what it costs in Farmington. Hell somtimes I can save 20 cents by driving a half mile further down the road. What is that all about. We must just like taking it in the ass, thats the only thing I can figure. Whatever it is all relative, if you aren't struggeling then who cares.
Price controls on gas by the government don't work, this was proven in the 1970's. Greed does not set the price of gas either.

This is all about a free market, and the best allocation of scarce resources.

You need to read "Basic Econmics" by Thomas Sowell. It will explain all this to you better than I ever could.

But here's my overly simplified example:

If gas was really too expensive you would decide to move closer to work because it would be cheaper to move than to pay for gas to drive 40 miles everyday. It isn't or you'd do it. That's how a free market decides price. As soon as you(and others) move closer to work or find other ways to reduce consumption because of high prices, demand is lowered and the price goes down.

If you want a cheaper gas bill it's up to you. Don't submit to the "I'm a victim" mentality, take control of the situation. You put yourself where you are. If it isn't working anymore, take yourself back out. Find a different way to live. No one will do it for you, YOU have to do it.

Good Luck.
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Old June 6th, 2007, 09:44 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post

But here's my overly simplified example:

If gas was really too expensive you would decide to move closer to work because it would be cheaper to move than to pay for gas to drive 40 miles everyday. It isn't or you'd do it.
Funny you say this. We are moving. We are buying a house with less land, less square foot, smaller garage........for more than we are getting for our house. But it's much closer to work and I will not be impacted as greatly by the price of gas.

So, by your example does this support the statement that gas is really too expensive?
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Old June 6th, 2007, 09:46 PM   #32
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If I weren't so damn lazy I would pedal my 3 miles to work. I really don't feel like it after working 12 hrs. though.
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Old June 6th, 2007, 10:15 PM   #33
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Funny you say this. We are moving. We are buying a house with less land, less square foot, smaller garage........for more than we are getting for our house. But it's much closer to work and I will not be impacted as greatly by the price of gas.

So, by your example does this support the statement that gas is really too expensive?
If the price of gas was the reason you were moving then yes, obviously it is to expensive. But it's going to be different for everyone. Some may have already decided it was to expensive and moved closer or got a smaller car. For others they'll give up other things and keep paying for gas.
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Old June 19th, 2007, 03:54 PM   #34
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[QUOTE=amc78cj7;578029]Funny you say this. We are moving. ...I will not be impacted as greatly by the price of gas.

Im buying a bike for my commute to work (a motorcycle...not a bicycle) because its cheaper to pay insurance and a bike payment than it is to run my jeep 150+ miles monday-friday.

we bitch all we want, but most still spend money we dont really have.

hell....we are here on this forum because we are all into 4x4s, modified jeeps and trucks, etc and posting via high speed internet conection, sitting in the a/c. if we were really stretching ourselves as thin as we would like to think (back to the need vs. want model), i dont think a lot of us would be here reading this.
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