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Old February 10th, 2006, 12:51 AM   #1
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Default Nitrogen Tanks vs Co2 Tanks

I have a source for a FREE small nitrogen tank.. my buddy has used his to air his tires and im told with nitrogen in your tires instead of AIR it they wear a lot better etc.. But my question is since i dont know a whole lot about Nitrogen.. How expenssive would it be to refill ?? Can you mount this in youe vehical like a Co2 tank ?? I beleive this is stored in the tank at higher pressure then a regulated outlet like Co2.. Input would be very much appreciated...
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Old February 10th, 2006, 09:29 AM   #2
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There are so many reasons why this is something that is not practiced. A cpmressed nitrogen tank is around 2200lbs when full, Iwould not want to be in a roll with a bomb strapped to my roll bar. And if the valve did get knocked off, if your top is on you will displace your oxygen nearly emmediately. Additionally, that tank would not last long.

CO2 is a liquid in that tank, as you use it it boils off, turns into gas, and out through the regulator and out the hose it goes. That liquid gives you a lot of gas, it will last a long time. It's like a pot of boiling water, a little water gives a lot of steam. The static pressure in that tank is also much lower, a better safety factor. Plus, if the tank ruptures, it will only release gas as fast as it can boil off (it will not turn to gas emmediately, that's impossible), so that is also a better safety factor.

So, don't take Compressed Nitrogen on the trails. If you do let somebody know so they can stay clear from you, and when your unconcious they may know why.
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Old February 10th, 2006, 09:42 AM   #3
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Good to know.. I'll pass on the deal then.
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Old February 10th, 2006, 11:20 AM   #4
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Race teams use nitrogen in their vehicles because its more stable at all temps. They use HUGE tanks to fill the tires though. In Nascar the go down to the 1/4 pound or less for tuning so they need it to not fluctuate when it heats up. Use co2.
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Old February 10th, 2006, 01:07 PM   #5
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They're both equally dangerous. If the blowoff valve releases on either one while it's in your vehicle you're going to end up with frozen lungs. If you're traveling at 60mph one of those bottles Ultimate Air sells will empty before your vehicle has stopped. Not only will hypoxia torture you but your eyeballs will try to freeze and you'll be tempted to breathe in supercold CO2. Something as simple as taking an overfilled bottle and putting it in a warm car then driving down a rough road can cause them to blow off excess pressure. And once it opens, rarely do they close before the bottle is empty.


As long as the container is DOT-approved, is still certified, and you don't drive around with the valve exposed/stuff hanging off it then there won't be a problem any more than CO2.
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Old February 10th, 2006, 03:21 PM   #6
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well my main concern is it lasting long enough.. which wa cleared up in the 1st repsonse.. it will be in a Trail rig or in the tool box of my sonoma.. (secured in place of course) so im not worried about asphixiastion (however u spell it) i just thought it would be nice cause i can prob a desent sized bottle for free.. but im ust wondering if it's even worth F-ing with.. i really want one of those Ultimate Air systems but the price has made my credit card run and hide...
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Old February 10th, 2006, 05:09 PM   #7
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Nitrogen will last longer. CO2 bottles only have around 850psi vapor pressure. So, liquid for liquid there is more gas in a N2 bottle.

If the various CO2 air system stuff scares you, just go buy a paintball refilling kit and a regulator. The expensive part of the whole thing is the bottle. The rest is peanuts.
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Old February 10th, 2006, 05:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrath
Nitrogen will last longer. CO2 bottles only have around 850psi vapor pressure. So, liquid for liquid there is more gas in a N2 bottle.
Where in the hell did you come up with this answer. Nitrogen is a compressed gas. If you want Liquid Nitrogen, then that's another story, but nobody I know is goign to keep any Liquid Nitrogen in the back of thier rig, it needs to be kept at like -240 Degrees F to stay a liquid (or some rediculous cold tempurate, we have thousands of gallons of nitrogen here at work, it's cold shit man!). CO2 can remain a liquid at room tempurature at somewhere under 1000psi.
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Old February 10th, 2006, 05:54 PM   #9
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I believe you are wrong. co2 will last much longer. Nitrogen in this sense is a compressed gas, like and air tank, and will run out as fast as an air tank. In the 10-15 pound cylinder range it would let you fill up maybe one off road tire. Co2 is in a liquid form and what your actually using is the gas that evaporates off the liquid. It remains the same pressure (780-1200 depending on temp) whether the bottle is full or almost empty, until totally empty (all liquid has evaporated). The need for a pressure gauge isnt really needed because it remains stable until gone. An adjustable pressure regulator for output can be useful to adjust for tools, resetting a bead ect. I think the co2 for paintball is already in gas form. I could be wrong on that though. I would need to shake a 20oz paintball tank to verify they actually fill it with liquid co2. It would be tough because the gun fires in any position whereas the co2 cylinders we use must be used upright to keep the liquid out of the regulator. If it was in a gun then I would think the liquid would get in the system and not work if it was held wrong or shook up.
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Old February 10th, 2006, 05:55 PM   #10
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Damn, your fast and I typed all that for nothing!
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Old February 10th, 2006, 08:48 PM   #11
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Hahaha, your reply was better than mine anyway
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Old February 10th, 2006, 10:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn
Where in the hell did you come up with this answer. Nitrogen is a compressed gas. If you want Liquid Nitrogen, then that's another story, but nobody I know is goign to keep any Liquid Nitrogen in the back of thier rig, it needs to be kept at like -240 Degrees F to stay a liquid (or some rediculous cold tempurate, we have thousands of gallons of nitrogen here at work, it's cold shit man!). CO2 can remain a liquid at room tempurature at somewhere under 1000psi.

Right you are. I was being way too vague.

Most nitrogen bottles I've used are for race cars (drag tires). They come in either 3000psi or 4500psi bottles for the most part. Nitrogen expands something like 650 times when it turns from liquid to gas. CO2 is something like 300:1. So, liquid for liquid the nitrogen obviously wins. I'm willing to bet a 4500psi bottle of nitrogen is probably comparable to a CO2 bottle of a similar physical size (CO2 turns to a liquid at like 850). Who knows, maybe I'm way off. I just know the little bottle of nitrogen we used to use lasted forever whether it be in tires or shocks. I know a paintball CO2 canister doesn't fill many tires.
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Old February 10th, 2006, 11:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Not only will hypoxia torture you but your eyeballs will try to freeze and you'll be tempted to breathe in supercold CO2.


Yes it comes out cold...but that little tank will not freeze your eyeballs in a Jeep...unless you turn around to find out what the noise is and it squirts liquid in your eyes. Otherwise it would freeze the valve stem when filling a tire, making it break off. I have filled a ton of tires with my Ultimate Air tank, ran air tools, a cut off wheel, used it for shielding gas when welding, used it to do a cylinder leakdown test, filled balloons, blew out a dusty computer case with it...tons of things...and never had any problems. Great thing to have around.
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Old February 11th, 2006, 12:03 AM   #14
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I think i'll just wait and save for a system from Ultimate Air
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Old February 11th, 2006, 02:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws

Yes it comes out cold...but that little tank will not freeze your eyeballs in a Jeep...unless you turn around to find out what the noise is and it squirts liquid in your eyes. Otherwise it would freeze the valve stem when filling a tire, making it break off. I have filled a ton of tires with my Ultimate Air tank, ran air tools, a cut off wheel, used it for shielding gas when welding, used it to do a cylinder leakdown test, filled balloons, blew out a dusty computer case with it...tons of things...and never had any problems. Great thing to have around.
Did you read the sentences around it? If the safety valve releases it will dump the entire contents of the tank in a matter of seconds. If you don't believe me that it'll suck, go get one of those "compressed air" cans used for cleaning out electronics. Go into the bathroom and close the window and the door. Puncture said can. Let us know what happens. Now imagine a Jeep 1/4 the size with a bottle with 4-8 times the liquid.
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Old February 11th, 2006, 04:21 PM   #16
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Since I deal with many types of refrigerants, and nitrogen and CO2, I can say, I don't believe you. What will happen is after having the valve knocked copletely off or the relief failing wide open, the temp of the tank will instantly drop. Lots of gas will emediatley release, but not the entore tank. The liquid will not emediately turn to gas, it will at a fast rate, but now even slower because the entire contents of the tank are at sub 0 temps. I may have to do some internet searching to show some saturation graphs. I have some paper copies but I am not about to try to type all this up.
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Old February 11th, 2006, 10:05 PM   #17
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Even if the relief valve fails...like Shawn says, it won't all turn to gas at once. It's not possible. Anyway, the relief valve still only allows so much flow...not the whole can at once.
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