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Old May 21st, 2007, 01:39 PM   #81
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Yeah, I know a few people that came to a quarterly one time and saw the budget submissions written on napkins and whatnot there at the meeting that were basically guesses really turned them off. Bad first impression.
Thank god we are past that. Our new treasurer happens to be a CPA who is the manager of the firm. He has an understanding of the laws, finances and such that some of the other volunteers never had. Not bad mouthing them. But, when at the time the only person stepping up to be a treasurer may not have any more experience than balancing a check book, you live with what you have.

Paul, don't leave us now!

In fact, you might get a chuckle out of this: In the recent United Four Wheel Drive Association proposed budget, which they proposed as a balanced budget, Paul found errors. They have now gone back and revised it. You see, it happens at all levels.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 01:46 PM   #82
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Thank god we are past that. Our new treasurer happens to be a CPA who is the manager of the firm. He has an understanding of the laws, finances and such that some of the other volunteers never had. Not bad mouthing them. But, when at the time the only person stepping up to be a treasurer may not have any more experience than balancing a check book, you live with what you have.

Paul, don't leave us now!

In fact, you might get a chuckle out of this: In the recent United Four Wheel Drive Association proposed budget, which they proposed as a balanced budget, Paul found errors. They have now gone back and revised it. You see, it happens at all levels.
well, that just means the budget is balanced with the submissions right? Doesn't necessarily mean the submissions are much better, but I hope they are. people really want to know what they're getting for their dues and want to feel its worth it.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 01:46 PM   #83
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Thank god we are past that. Our new treasurer happens to be a CPA who is the manager of the firm. He has an understanding of the laws, finances and such that some of the other volunteers never had. Not bad mouthing them. But, when at the time the only person stepping up to be a treasurer may not have any more experience than balancing a check book, you live with what you have.

Paul, don't leave us now!

In fact, you might get a chuckle out of this: In the recent United Four Wheel Drive Association proposed budget, which they proposed as a balanced budget, Paul found errors. They have now gone back and revised it. You see, it happens at all levels.
This is the type of improvment that has been long over due . It is nice when some one who has the appropriate education for a postion steps up .

I was aware some time ago of the vote change that took place , that was perhaps in my oppinion one of the best steps that had been taken in the number of years i had belonged to the association .

Jim you mentioned eariler about trying to work with legislation . I am also aware of a member who was working on that . He knew some one in lansing and was trying to get the needed info on how to go about getting law changed .

I have not heard any thing in some time so i dont know how well it went .
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Old May 21st, 2007, 01:54 PM   #84
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I think we are all after the same thing here, open places to wheel! The fact is that it takes money to fight the people that want to close all the areas that are still open. I can't wheel near as much as I'd like to but still feel it is VERY important to support GLFWA. The Boondocker is so well put together that it's worth the membership fee alone! For those of us that can't get to meetings or give of our time, $35 is a small price to pay to keep up the fight for open 4x4 areas!!!
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Old May 21st, 2007, 02:01 PM   #85
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Can we please stop with the "boondocker alone is worth the $35"? My ShopNotes magazine with oodles of woodworking project plans in it and advice is good too and I get 12 a year and its $15 per year and I stopped renewing that. The Boondocker at 4 issues per year while good, is not worth $35. Like someone mentioned eariler, at a few hundred member's you're not left with much money at $35 per. Me personally, I would cease the Boondocker printing and leave it as a PDF on the site just to save what little money you are taking in to fight the good fight to keep trails open. The Boondocker is a luxury you can have when you're 2k+ in membership.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 02:27 PM   #86
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Can we please stop with the "boondocker alone is worth the $35"? My ShopNotes magazine with oodles of woodworking project plans in it and advice is good too and I get 12 a year and its $15 per year and I stopped renewing that. The Boondocker at 4 issues per year while good, is not worth $35. Like someone mentioned eariler, at a few hundred member's you're not left with much money at $35 per. Me personally, I would cease the Boondocker printing and leave it as a PDF on the site just to save what little money you are taking in to fight the good fight to keep trails open. The Boondocker is a luxury you can have when you're 2k+ in membership.
It gets more complicated than that.... This has already been discussedand you need to get the word out so that members can vote on things like positions and structure changes. GLFWDA follows Roberts Rules of Order for their meetings, im pretty sure its in there somewhere.

Its not just the boondocker either, its also for the united's voice (just like the boondocker except all over the world) and the support of their attorney with our legal issues.



www.ufwda.org
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Old May 21st, 2007, 02:36 PM   #87
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Can we please stop with the "boondocker alone is worth the $35"? My ShopNotes magazine with oodles of woodworking project plans in it and advice is good too and I get 12 a year and its $15 per year and I stopped renewing that. The Boondocker at 4 issues per year while good, is not worth $35. Like someone mentioned eariler, at a few hundred member's you're not left with much money at $35 per. Me personally, I would cease the Boondocker printing and leave it as a PDF on the site just to save what little money you are taking in to fight the good fight to keep trails open. The Boondocker is a luxury you can have when you're 2k+ in membership.
Well here we go again and you are sure to jump on me for this. But.......... this was discussed and voted on. Not everyone has a computer or uses it. It is also used as a handout for advertisement at our associate member's business's.

As a non profit organization, the state requires some form of organization. We use "Robert's rules of order" which is recognized legally as a format for conducting business. Within RRO, it suggests strongly that voting be done by members present. Why do I bring this up? Because a vote should be based upon "all" of the discussion. It is easy for you to say "you would cease printing it" but until you have heard all of the discussion at the meetings, you may not have the full understanding of what is being voted on.

It is pretty hard to compare the price of printing from a publication that prints a few hundred copies to one that prints several thousand copies. Do you think that the $25 or $30 you spend on an off road video really cost that much to produce? They are making a profit. The cost for the boondocker is a straight pass thru.

I really think that person's perception of what is well spent is up to that individual.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 02:59 PM   #88
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Here is what I would like to see. Instead of a dual group. One group that bands together. That way we could all work together and provide Michigan with some real 4wd. trails to ride on. Then the club folks could submit there information to a common database for all of us to enjoy.

One of the first things is a name change. One that would put us all together. GL and GLFWDA.

Second would be some type of a DNR endorsed set of rules so that we have equal laws thoughout the state. Perhaps a handbook made in conjunction with the DNR that list`s the legal areas to wheel.
GPS coordinates would be an added plus. Except for St.Helen/SL I don`t know any other legal places to wheel. With GPS and handbook I/we could broaden our range of legal wheeling spots. Also with the handbook the DNR would see that we in fact legal.


This in it self would create a common bond between the GL, GLFWDA and the DNR.

The snowmobile folks have it. Why can`t we ? Take the St.Helen Snowpackers for example. Endorsed by the DNR. Helped up by the business sector. Surley anyone whom has been to St. Helen has seen the Snowpacker Backer signs to the store front.

It`s a start........
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Old May 21st, 2007, 03:42 PM   #89
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If the advertisers are paying the cost of the publishing of the Boondocker I can see it being a wash. I've brought up the discussion of stopping print at a couple quarterly's myself. I understand the whole RR debate too. There comes a time too when you have to do what you have to to make the best use of allocated funds, time, and personnel. The time of "people without a computer" is and should come to an end as an excuse to keep it going. The people without a computer probably don't have the $35 to pay for dues anyway if we want to go that way again too.

My point being, people want to see more out of their $35 per year than the repetitive Boondocker and Voice issues. Frankly, I don't see much that United has done for our area for all the money they bring in. They typically stick to the west coast and southeast areas. I know Jim M was working with someone at United on this too. You need more "atta boys" to show off to the non-member community to rally them into joining.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 03:52 PM   #90
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The internet is a good way to get the word out, I would suggest that when a new member joins give them the option of if they would like to see it on line or recive it in the mail. That way you cover both ends and save some money in mailing.

Sometime the easy way to solve different ideas is overlooked.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 04:26 PM   #91
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If the advertisers are paying the cost of the publishing of the Boondocker I can see it being a wash. I've brought up the discussion of stopping print at a couple quarterly's myself. I understand the whole RR debate too. There comes a time too when you have to do what you have to to make the best use of allocated funds, time, and personnel. The time of "people without a computer" is and should come to an end as an excuse to keep it going. The people without a computer probably don't have the $35 to pay for dues anyway if we want to go that way again too.

My point being, people want to see more out of their $35 per year than the repetitive Boondocker and Voice issues. Frankly, I don't see much that United has done for our area for all the money they bring in. They typically stick to the west coast and southeast areas. I know Jim M was working with someone at United on this too. You need more "atta boys" to show off to the non-member community to rally them into joining.


We tried to switch to an electronic Boondocker but the majority still wanted their hard copy...
So you see we did try that idea...

As for what United has done for us? Were you at the last quarterly to listen to Carla Boucher? Ask Trail_Fanatic what United has done for us...
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Old May 21st, 2007, 04:30 PM   #92
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I kind of like the hard copy. I was for the online copy myself once too but Mike doesnt come online very much anymore and likes to read it while he is in the little boys room. :stan3:
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Old May 21st, 2007, 04:34 PM   #93
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As for what United has done for us? Were you at the last quarterly to listen to Carla Boucher? Ask Trail_Fanatic what United has done for us...
Rather then asking if someone was there (when you know they weren't) wouldn't it be easier, and more USER FRIENDLY to post the minutes of the meeting?

In one post, you could easily reach 1000 people in one day.. Thats a lot more user friendly then telling someone to go find trail fanatic and ask him.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 04:35 PM   #94
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Rather then asking if someone was there (when you know they weren't) wouldn't it be easier, and more USER FRIENDLY to post the minutes of the meeting?

In one post, you could easily reach 1000 people in one day.. Thats a lot more user friendly then telling someone to go find trail fanatic and ask him.
I'm about done with this apparent dead horse.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 04:36 PM   #95
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I'm about done with this apparent dead horse.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 05:04 PM   #96
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Wow!

Hey New Guys.... Some of these guys that have been working on this for years all ready know some of the answers your asking..



Hey Old Guys... Some of the New Guys have good Ideas...


Now you all go to your rooms and calm down then come out and talk about this when your not defending yourselves and want to work on what is good for the 4x4 world.........


MOM.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 05:11 PM   #97
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Rather then asking if someone was there (when you know they weren't) wouldn't it be easier, and more USER FRIENDLY to post the minutes of the meeting?

In one post, you could easily reach 1000 people in one day.. Thats a lot more user friendly then telling someone to go find trail fanatic and ask him.
Obviously that was a rhetorical question. I haven't seen Lothos at a quarterly in a while if my memory is correct.


Have you looked in the Land Use forum for all the posts Pat has made?

Should I make a new post saying hey, Pat made a new post in the Land Use forum, everyone go look?


Kelly...
Are you for us or against us, cause you say we don't tell the world what we do, but then you get post after post telling you the things we do. (Those would be the defensive ones Lothos keeps commenting about.) Yet, your still not a member just because our marketing isn't up to your standards yet? It's not up to any of our standards, but we are working on it. I shared your marketing idea & it was fairly well received.

This isn't about me or you, it's about the sport, just like I've said before. GLFWDA is not a club, it's not a clique, it's an ASSOCIATION. Everyone will have different ideas & they should. Otherwise we'd all just sit there & say yes to whatever got proposed. Do you quit or not join just because you don't like someone?
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Old May 21st, 2007, 05:15 PM   #98
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Obviously that was a rhetorical question. I haven't seen Lothos at a quarterly in a while if my memory is correct.


Have you looked in the Land Use forum for all the posts Pat has made?

Should I make a new post saying hey, Pat made a new post in the Land Use forum, everyone go look?


Kelly...
Are you for us or against us, cause you say we don't tell the world what we do, but then you get post after post telling you the things we do. (Those would be the defensive ones Lothos keeps commenting about.) Yet, your still not a member just because our marketing isn't up to your standards yet? It's not up to any of our standards, but we are working on it. I shared your marketing idea & it was fairly well received.

This isn't about me or you, it's about the sport, just like I've said before. GLFWDA is not a club, it's not a clique, it's an ASSOCIATION. Everyone will have different ideas & they should. Otherwise we'd all just sit there & say yes to whatever got proposed. Do you quit or not join just because you don't like someone?
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Old May 21st, 2007, 06:50 PM   #99
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Wow!

Hey New Guys.... Some of these guys that have been working on this for years all ready know some of the answers your asking..



Hey Old Guys... Some of the New Guys have good Ideas...


Now you all go to your rooms and calm down then come out and talk about this when your not defending yourselves and want to work on what is good for the 4x4 world.........


MOM.

Miff, no disrespect was intended. My sentence was a little short.
All I meant was that idea was indeed tried.
That's not to say it can't & shouldn't be tried again.
To many times ideas are disregarded because they were tried before & didn't work. It might just be that the time wasn't right the first time. I've been striving to keep this in mind because it does more often than not.
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Old May 21st, 2007, 07:22 PM   #100
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so, if someone doesn't attend a quarterly, their views and opinions do not count at all? No, I haven't been to a quarterly in over a year. I was quite frankly that disgusted at the time and it takes a long time to earn trust back.

people need to understand that the past may be behind us, but there are quite a few people that are still rather upset with what had transpired and it will take some time to convince them to return. those are the people that need to be communicated firsthand with information and not hearsay. Unfortunately thats all thats been making it to them still.
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