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Old May 17th, 2007, 12:13 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by drummond View Post
I know this probably isnt the right forum for this, but we all know that it will get the most views here...and this is a MAJOR problem.

I just received an email from Steve Walker, who is the President of the Drummond Island Offroad Club. This is concerning serious illegal 4x4 use on Drummond Island out in the Maxton Plains. I have no idea who was apart of this, but I hope that they know that this is the sort of behavior that will get 4x4's removed from the island, from the DNR and locals alike.


Steve's Email


Pat Hallfrisch, the DNR Forrest Unit Manager for the Eastern Upper Peninsula, has asked if I would forward this letter and the attached pictures to those of you I've included ..... Hoping you will help spread the word on the various forums how important it is that as a user group, (Full Sized 4x4's) we all stay away from the Maxton Plains... This type of damage shown in the photos is the quickest way I know of to Ban all full sized ORV's from Drummond Island... In over 20 years of wheeling this island,, I have never seen this kind of total disregard for the environment. Please help spread the word that if this type of damage continues, everyone can count on extremely focused efforts by the island residents and environmentalists to close the island to full size rides


Steve Walker
President, Drummond Island Off-Road Club


HERE IS THE DNR EMAIL


The attached images were taken by our Wildlife Biologist just a few short days ago and the scenes depicted make it difficult for land managers to defend the legitimate use of ORVs. What makes these pictures truly sad is that they were taken on the Maxton Plains of Drummond Island where the land is unusually delicate, there are many rare plant species AND the area is nowhere near any of our ORV trails. Some are even on private property.

Over the span of many years I have witnessed countless well organized and managed ORV events. There have also been numerous public projects that you folks have put together or participated in on the island in conjunction with your family oriented events. These have ranged from picking up trash along the trails and below the cliff at Marble Head to removing old car bodies on state land to holding raffles and donating the proceeds to replace island fire and ambulance equipment. I also know there has been support provided to scouting, Big Brothers/Big Sisters and to the local Lions Club by Off Roaders. Along with the good deeds associated with your events it is common knowledge that you have made it know to participants and members of your clubs that the Maxton Plains are a unique and fragile ecosystem, a real treasure, so I am confident that no members of your organizations would indulge in the sort of mis-behavior depicted in the photos. If all of these good things are being done why did I send the imagery? Quite simply, we need help and I feel you folks, being long standing and respected members of the ORV community, might be in position to provide it.

Next time a newsletter goes out from your organization(s) would you please emphasize again that trail use is not a problem but off trail use is? Could you emphasize the we have close to 60 miles of back roads on the Island open to quads and full sized vehicles that are there for the enjoyment of legitimate, law abiding users? Word of mouth is good too. your member might be able to convince others who are not part of organized groups to clean up their act. Reminding your members to let us know if they notice illegal activity on the Maxton would really help too. If their cell phones don't work over there they can get descriptions, license numbers, date and time, etc. maybe even a photo or two, and we will do what we can from there.

As you all know I am always open to ideas that might help curb the activity of those who make legal users look bad. No need to give the anti's ammunition in any attempt to close down all trails on the island because a few people are damaging a truly unique, globally rare, ecosystem.

Ideas or suggestions on how to make things better should be sent to me by e-mail, hallfrip@michigan.gov or call me at 906-635-6161. Thinking out of the box is certainly encouraged. If any of you have contact with other Michigan off road enthusiasts not associated with your groups please feel free to pass on my request for input.

If we need to all sit down and brainstorm either over coffee at the Bear Track or formally at the town hall I am open to that too. Thanks, Pat







This is a serious issue guys, and this is the type of stuff the DNR uses against us, especially on one of the only places in Michigan that is fun to wheel. This could possibily lead to trail closures and a dislike of fullsize 4x4's on the island. The Maxton Plains are a protected area, and have been that way for many many years. Many people enjoy going out there just for nature....and then they see this. It isnt good for our public image






WELL THAT SUCKS !!!!

BUT WHAT DO THEY EXPECT !!! WHEN THESE ASSHATS KEEP SHUTTING DOWN LEGAL PLACES TO WHEEL !!!! OF COURSE PEOPLE WILL HEAD OFF THE TRAIL
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Old May 17th, 2007, 12:25 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by roll-bar Bob View Post
WELL THAT SUCKS !!!!

BUT WHAT DO THEY EXPECT !!! WHEN THESE ASSHATS KEEP SHUTTING DOWN LEGAL PLACES TO WHEEL !!!! OF COURSE PEOPLE WILL HEAD OFF THE TRAIL
No...I disagree 100%. The thing is, they havent shut down any places on Drummond Island yet, they may have in other areas of the state, but that doesnt pertain here. There are TONS of other legal areas to play on, and there is NO reason to go rip around in a protected wildlife area like this. There is no shortage of trails or areas to play on the island. Turtle Ridge ORV area is also RIGHT down the road. This area is not near any trail, and there is NO EXCUSES. There are miles and miles of legal trails that the DNR lets us use on the island, and THESE are the things that gets those trails closed. Read up before you make comments like that:miff:
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Old May 17th, 2007, 12:34 PM   #23
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I've spoken with Pat Halfrisch over the years, and I've had the opportunity to ride along in a jeep with him while doing a post run after DOA while I was with MSG (a GLFWDA event). He's very equal access oriented, and wants to make sure that all groups get to use Michigan's land; but he does have pressure from Lansing, and stuff like this won't help.

On a more positive note, group's like Steve Walker and his friends, GLFWDA through both individual members and club events like MSG's DOA, and the Hummer group should be happy that Pat is acknowledging organized full-size groups and their value to the Island. It would be great to see more DNR folks recognize this and work with organized wheeling at the local levels.

"Over the span of many years I have witnessed countless well organized and managed ORV events. There have also been numerous public projects that you folks have put together or participated in on the island in conjunction with your family oriented events. These have ranged from picking up trash along the trails and below the cliff at Marble Head to removing old car bodies on state land to holding raffles and donating the proceeds to replace island fire and ambulance equipment. I also know there has been support provided to scouting, Big Brothers/Big Sisters and to the local Lions Club by Off Roaders. Along with the good deeds associated with your events it is common knowledge that you have made it know to participants and members of your clubs that the Maxton Plains are a unique and fragile ecosystem, a real treasure, so I am confident that no members of your organizations would indulge in the sort of mis-behavior depicted in the photos. If all of these good things are being done why did I send the imagery? Quite simply, we need help and I feel you folks, being long standing and respected members of the ORV community, might be in position to provide it. "


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Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
As a side note, has anyone of us ever taken pics after the loggers finish a cut? Not to defend the above pics but these skidders do 10 times more damage over a wider area but it is overlooked by the Department in the vein of revenue.
Pat, though I do agree that in the southern end of the Island, loggers do shred the land more than a two track for jeeps, but in this case, I don't believe there is logging on Maxton Plains.

A large sign declaring no offroad would be a good thing, maybe just after where the Last Resort used to be.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 12:36 PM   #24
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No...I disagree 100%. The thing is, they havent shut down any places on Drummond Island yet, they may have in other areas of the state, but that doesnt pertain here. There are TONS of other legal areas to play on, and there is NO reason to go rip around in a protected wildlife area like this. There is no shortage of trails or areas to play on the island. Turtle Ridge ORV area is also RIGHT down the road. This area is not near any trail, and there is NO EXCUSES. There are miles and miles of legal trails that the DNR lets us use on the island, and THESE are the things that gets those trails closed. Read up before you make comments like that:miff:
No doubt. If they want to be big bad mudders, run down to the clay pits.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 12:46 PM   #25
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This is a cross post from GLFWDA. Bob (Jarhead) got in contact with Pat from the DNR and here is what he had to say

Here is the e-mail response I received from Pat Hallfrisch, the DNR Forrest Unit Manager for the Eastern Upper Peninsula:

From "Pat Hallfrisch" <HALLFRIP@michigan.gov>
Subject Re: Maxton Plains
Date Thu, May 17, 2007 8:08 am
To membershipsecretary@glfwda.org

Thanks for the invitation Bob, but I doubt I can make it. Way too much paperwork needs to go out ................... by yesterday! I always knew the vast majority of the ORV community were decent, law abiding individuals and the feedback I am getting from the note Steve forwarded is reinforcing that. The DNR seldom gets good press, regulatory agencies rarely do, so the positive responses coming in on this issue are gratifying. With the juggling act we must do on Drummond between the ORV folks, the snowmobilers (ORVers like rocks, snowmobilers don't), the sightseers, hikers, bikers, hunters, and every other user of the public land there is no way to please all the people all the time, but try we must and on this one issue of preserving the Maxton everybody seems to be in agreement. Your generous offer to help restore the damaged on all of the areas might need to be put on hold for a while. From the information I received the worst of the rutting is probably on private land, property belonging to TNC (The Nature Conservancy) and we have no authority there. TNC has offices in Lansing and Marquette so I believe it would go a long way if they were contacted and your group offered your help in the restoration effort. If I had an e-mail address I would give it to you. Quite frankly, I think they would jump at the chance to work more closely with any group that could help them control soil disturbances on the Maxton. Concerning the state land disturbances, due to the unique nature of the plant life out there it is not a simple matter to restore the area. Placing mulch or grass would most likely introduce unwanted invasive species to the area that could in time crowd out or seriously inhibit the survival of some rare or endangered species. I do not believe that leveling the area at this time would harm it in any way though, as long as the hand tools (and hand tools only) were free of foreign matter that could introduce unwanted plants. Leveling would also make it obvious to everybody that vehicles do not belong there. Thanks for your response. Maybe next time I can make it to the Island for a chat and a cup of coffee. Pat >>>
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Old May 17th, 2007, 02:49 PM   #26
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I think that was the point he was getting at :miff:
ding ding ding we have a winner, that was the point I was trying to make, thanks Kevin!

:miff: CC
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Old May 17th, 2007, 03:14 PM   #27
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This is just a question.

Was it Off-roaders or was it locals, hunters or campers stealing wood or something else? I'd like to know where it leads. I would also help to repair the area.

Anyone can buy a MT tire.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 03:20 PM   #28
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This is just a question.

Was it Off-roaders or was it locals, hunters or campers stealing wood or something else? I'd like to know where it leads. I would also help to repair the area.

Anyone can buy a MT tire.
that is the exact thing. We dont know. At least I dont, and I dont know if we will. But USUALLY when things like this happen, people get in their mind set that those damn 4x4's did it. So I personally think that it really doesnt matter. The problem has already been committed now we have to deal with it.

If people can see us cleaning it up, and grading it back down, they might realize that all 4x4's are not like that, and that it is only a small %, and change their opinion that all 4x4's are like that ( I know a few people on the island that way )...and end up leading to good impressions by the DNR
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Old May 17th, 2007, 03:25 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Nvrenuf View Post
This is just a question.

Was it Off-roaders or was it locals, hunters or campers stealing wood or something else? I'd like to know where it leads. I would also help to repair the area.

Anyone can buy a MT tire.

you can cross out campers stealing wood. their is so much dead fallen tree's and wood left behind on old logging trails that going to maxton bogging through mud would make getting wood a pain in the ass.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 04:14 PM   #30
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WELL THAT SUCKS !!!!

BUT WHAT DO THEY EXPECT !!! WHEN THESE ASSHATS KEEP SHUTTING DOWN LEGAL PLACES TO WHEEL !!!! OF COURSE PEOPLE WILL HEAD OFF THE TRAIL
Cool under that logic, the next time my wife has a headache, I can get some strange.:miff:
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Old May 17th, 2007, 05:10 PM   #31
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As a side note, has anyone of us ever taken pics after the loggers finish a cut? Not to defend the above pics but these skidders do 10 times more damage over a wider area but it is overlooked by the Department in the vein of revenue.
There is no logging going on out on the plains. It is a protected area with rare plant and animal life. You are comparing apples to roof rafters.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 05:11 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nvrenuf View Post
This is just a question.

Was it Off-roaders or was it locals, hunters or campers stealing wood or something else? I'd like to know where it leads. I would also help to repair the area.

Anyone can buy a MT tire.
Local info has it that it was some younger locals. The sheriff has a good idea who they are and is following up.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 05:13 PM   #33
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No doubt. If they want to be big bad mudders, run down to the clay pits.
Clay pits are officially closed because dip shits kept making bypasses and the trail kept getting wider and wider, then when it couldn't get any wider because fo the trees, they cut them down and made more bypasses.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 05:16 PM   #34
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WELL THAT SUCKS !!!!

BUT WHAT DO THEY EXPECT !!! WHEN THESE ASSHATS KEEP SHUTTING DOWN LEGAL PLACES TO WHEEL !!!! OF COURSE PEOPLE WILL HEAD OFF THE TRAIL
That is the most ignorant comment I have EVER seen on this site. Please sell all your vehicles and stay out of the woods. Inbred jackasses with thinking like that are the ones that are killing it for all of the other people. Have you ever even been to Drummond Island?
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Old May 17th, 2007, 08:19 PM   #35
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There is no logging going on out on the plains. It is a protected area with rare plant and animal life. You are comparing apples to roof rafters.
Did I say anything about logging on Maxton Plains? My point is this, the only time the Department gets fired up over ruts in the forset is when they didnt have anything to do with them. I wasnt making any comparison to the situation at hand, I even stated that. What I take issue with is the skidder tracks and clear cutting that is being done in this state and think it is just as sad as someone driving on Maxton Plains. There is my apples and roof rafters Tim.

Did anyone bother to read the rest of my post? I see nobody referenced or quoted anything I wrote about the ORV grant monies that are available. This includes the signage your looking for!
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Old May 17th, 2007, 08:56 PM   #36
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Recreation Improvement Fund Grants

Program Objective(s):

To fund the operation, maintenance and development of recreation trails and restoration of lands damaged by off-road vehicles and inland lake cleanup.

Criteria:

Recreation Improvement Fund (RIF) dollars are available for operation, maintenance and development of recreation trails, restoration of lands damaged by off-road vehicles and inland lake cleanup. Projects are evaluated based on the following criteria:


1. Project need and benefit.

2. Site/project quality.

3. Balance among project types.

4. Balance among trail uses.

5. Geographic distribution of projects.

6. Balance among programs/divisions.

Eligibility:

State projects and State/local government partnership projects. A Department of Natural Resources (DNR) division/bureau must always be the applicant.

Application Process:

Internal Department process. Local unit of government sponsored projects can be considered for funding if they contribute to Department program goals and they are located on DNR land or linked to a trail on DNR land. Local unit of government applications will not be considered unless the project is developed as a joint application with a DNR division/bureau prior to the application deadline. The DNR division/bureau must always be the applicant.

Deadline(s):

July 1 of each year.

Timeline(s):

Funds are available on or after December 1.

Dollar Amount(s) Available:

No limit on individual projects.

Source(s) of Funds:

Recreation Improvement Fund.

Authority:

Part 711, PA 451 of 1994, as amended.



Contact(s):
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Old May 17th, 2007, 09:05 PM   #37
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above post wont let me edit so here is the contact info that is missing

Forest, Mineral and Fire Management

Mark Mandenberg (517-355-3037), mandenbm@michigan.gov.

Fiscal Year 2005 Appropriation:

$1,100,000; approximately $800,000 is available annually for grants
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Old May 17th, 2007, 09:06 PM   #38
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Let's keep in mind that we're ALL on the same team here folks.

I think we ALL have the right ideas form differing viewpoints, even Roll-Bar Bob. There are trail systems out west that have documented that once they achieved a HIGH degree of user satisfaction, off trail activity STOPPED all on its own - no enforcement needed. People don't want to have to break the law to have fun. But they DO want to have fun.

This case and the video at the AB meeting are extreme examples of how stupid some people will be while trying to fulfill their idea of 'fun'.

OK, enough on that though . . .


I just hung up the phone with Tim (MuddyPaws) and Brett (Drummond).
They have agreed to spearhead the "Maxton Plains Restoration Project" for us!

Another excellent example of "Four Wheel Drive Enthusiasts Collaborating to Restore Our Forests".

THANK YOU!!!!!


They'll contact the Nature Conservancy and coordinate between them, the DNR, and 4x4 users.

Let us know when and where you want us to show up to help guys!

Last edited by Trail_Fanatic; May 17th, 2007 at 11:02 PM.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 09:42 PM   #39
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We will be up there on thurs. till sunday and would be willing to help.

kyle
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Old May 18th, 2007, 06:25 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironman View Post
As a side note, has anyone of us ever taken pics after the loggers finish a cut? Not to defend the above pics but these skidders do 10 times more damage over a wider area but it is overlooked by the Department in the vein of revenue.

Restoring the above area is a great jesture by our community, to do it right there are monies that are available through the grants process from the sale of ORV decals. This is the same grant process we use for doing trail maintenence. Some of the work can be done now and the grant applied for and a replanting and signage could be done next spring. Usually the signage consists of a post and board explaining why restoration had to be done and that the money to do so came from the ORV sticker fund, directly out of the pockets of the user groups.

Steve Kubiciak of DNR ORV program or Muareen Houghton from the grants administration can help answer any questions about restoration.

Pat Kinne
Great Lakes Fourwheel Drive Assoc.

Excellent info Pat!

It is funny how some in the DNR can look the other way when land is damaged by logging. I see this "Rape" every weekend when I go trailriding. Kalkaska, Denton Creek, and Tomahawk are the trails I've been on this year that have been heavilly forested.
What really sucks is that the land, once stripped of its trees and shade, turns into a sandy mess and erodes away.
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