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Old May 17th, 2007, 12:47 PM   #41
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So you are saying that gas prices quadrupled recently? I haven't seen many gas stations would $7-8 gas lately. Either your driving has increased or your math skills have decreased.
Nope, I had a 33mpg commuter car for back and forth to work when I hired in, then was later issued a truck that gets 15-18mpg coupled with the doubling in fuel costs. -- all of which happened after I bought my house. (1st time home owner, extremely paranoid about money)
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Old May 17th, 2007, 12:49 PM   #42
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Yes, I understand supply and demand extremely well. I trade energy and have a degree in economics. The current surge in gas prices has little to do with demand (other than increase in holiday traffic which will hit prices next week). The issue is on the supply side currently. May 1 kicks off emissions season. The tree hugger endorsed fuel blends are mandatory during the summer. Refineries have a tough time keeping up with their supply to the market because of all the different blends that are required in different states, cities, and regions. The rest of the year, they have very few different blends to produce and can keep their supply levels higher.

If people really want to make a difference, they would try to fight the restrictions on gas blends, smack the tree huggers that block the building of refineries, and force the government to allow drilling again in the US.
Some damn good info in there. The months of May and August are typically the highest when it comes to gas prices for the summer months. May because of the refineries trying to keep up with supply and from what I've heard... they have to drain all their tanks of winter fuel before they can put in for the stuff they use in the summer, makes it difficult to keep a nice constant stock. Hell, I've even gotten use to the jump in prices around holidays for the increased volume of travelers...

but when the petroleum weekly reports were stating that the gas prices should be on average around $3... and we're about $.50 above that... something's not right. What's with that anyway?
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Old May 17th, 2007, 12:54 PM   #43
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Nope, I had a 33mpg commuter car for back and forth to work when I hired in, then was later issued a truck that gets 15-18mpg coupled with the doubling in fuel costs. -- all of which happened after I bought my house. (1st time home owner, extremely paranoid about money)
Sounds like you need to tell the boss to keep his truck or give you a fuel card.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 12:59 PM   #44
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Some damn good info in there. The months of May and August are typically the highest when it comes to gas prices for the summer months. May because of the refineries trying to keep up with supply and from what I've heard... they have to drain all their tanks of winter fuel before they can put in for the stuff they use in the summer, makes it difficult to keep a nice constant stock. Hell, I've even gotten use to the jump in prices around holidays for the increased volume of travelers...

but when the petroleum weekly reports were stating that the gas prices should be on average around $3... and we're about $.50 above that... something's not right. What's with that anyway?
Those reports aren't overly reliable. I get them every day for the different energy commodities. Get ready to get hit twice for next week. Wholesale prices for unleaded gas are up about 3.4% right now today and oil is over $64/barrel, up about 2.5% today. I just read that OPEC leaders do not feel that oil over $60 is expensive too. So don't expect it to change any time soon. Just like everything else that the US has no control over any more. Our energy is in the hands of the Middle East, our currency is controlled by China and Saudi Arabia, and our President is too busy chasing shadows in a sandbox to fix the real problems.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 02:52 PM   #45
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What the gas stations need to do is.......

Once they buy the fuel and put it in the tanks, underground...... They shouldn't be able to raise the prices until the tank hits 10% capacity...... Once the fuel truck comes out to refill the tank...... they can re price the fuel prices.

That's the way it used to be here in Michigan!
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Old May 17th, 2007, 03:01 PM   #46
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What the gas stations need to do is.......

Once they buy the fuel and put it in the tanks, underground...... They shouldn't be able to raise the prices until the tank hits 10% capacity...... Once the fuel truck comes out to refill the tank...... they can re price the fuel prices.

That's the way it used to be here in Michigan!
Any every gas station would be bankrupt in months. It's called cash flow and working capital. The majority of their working capital is invested in the gas in the ground. If the price of wholesale gas is going up, they need to raise their retail prices so that the cash flow from what they sell will cover buying the next delivery. If they can't raise prices until the next delivery, they will eventually run out of capital. At that point, they either borrow more or go out of business. Gas stations do not make much on gas sales. It averages around a penny per gallon. That doesn't add up much...
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Old May 17th, 2007, 03:05 PM   #47
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its only 3.59 at the sunoco in holly :tonka:
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Old May 17th, 2007, 03:56 PM   #48
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The way I see the Gasoline situation.......

If you are faced with a problem and there is nothing that you can do about it, then there is no problem...... If you are faced with a problem and there is something you can do about it..... Again, there is no problem.


Taoism is a wonderful thing!
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Old May 17th, 2007, 06:29 PM   #49
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i remember when i could fill my car for a little over 20 bux, now its 40 or more.. that hurtswhen i drive 65 miles ONE way to work..
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Old May 17th, 2007, 06:33 PM   #50
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i gassed up today for 3.36 or something and for that price you would hope the lock on the handel would work so i didnt have to stand there adn hold the pump, but noooo FLINT IS GHETTO!
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Old May 17th, 2007, 06:37 PM   #51
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84 scrambler i have one question about your statment . Why did fuel all ways jump up for summer , as i stated before , right before Memorial day 25 years ago ?

There wasnt all this fuel blending BS back then .

Im not saying your concept is flawed , im saying its an excuse that has been handed down to you and you except it , I dont for the reason stated above .

Also i noticed highway diesel seems to go down in the winter but requires the fuel to be blended for anti gelling , that makes no sense given your theory . Again im not saying you are wrong , im saying you listened to the reasons you were told with out questoining them and i doubt there true .

Add to that the record profits of oil companies last year . Less be logical , theres price gouging going on in the oil producers around the world .

While the numbers $3.50 a gallon are higher then the past the method and even time frame has remained the same for many years .

Last edited by Grandman; May 17th, 2007 at 07:04 PM.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 07:23 PM   #52
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i remember when i could fill my car for a little over 20 bux, now its 40 or more.. that hurtswhen i drive 65 miles ONE way to work..
wana take my truck to work again ??
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Old May 17th, 2007, 07:29 PM   #53
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84 scrambler i have one question about your statment . Why did fuel all ways jump up for summer , as i stated before , right before Memorial day 25 years ago ?

There wasnt all this fuel blending BS back then .

Im not saying your concept is flawed , im saying its an excuse that has been handed down to you and you except it , I dont for the reason stated above .

Also i noticed highway diesel seems to go down in the winter but requires the fuel to be blended for anti gelling , that makes no sense given your theory . Again im not saying you are wrong , im saying you listened to the reasons you were told with out questoining them and i doubt there true .

Add to that the record profits of oil companies last year . Less be logical , theres price gouging going on in the oil producers around the world .

While the numbers $3.50 a gallon are higher then the past the method and even time frame has remained the same for many years .
Your old and wise stuff doesn't cut it here. I have 11 years of energy trading experience and market analysis. Prices have gone up every summer for decades out of simple supply and demand. It has been called the "summer driving season" for a very long time. When do you typically see more cars on the road? Summer, fall, winter, or spring? Summer. That is called demand. Increased demand = increased prices. That is simple Econ 101 type stuff.

Comparing diesel "blending" to environmental emissions required blends is too COMPLETELY different issues that can not be compared directly. Diesel blending is simply adding an anti-gel compound to the fuel. They simply open up another valve and add it in the same refineries. They don't require a different blend in Detroit than they do in Chicago as they do for summer gasoline blends. Each city, county, and state are free to require their own super special environmentally friendly blend. This forces refineries to switch out equipment, use their storage VERY inefficiently, which causes them to fall behind in being able to produce enough for the summer driving season. You can't just blindly compare two totally different processes.

The "record profit" bullshit is something that the media has fed YOU and YOU have decided to accept it. They have not made record profits. In order to compare profits, you have to compare profit MARGINS. Oil companies are making in the 10-12% profit margin range. I would venture to guess that Marv's Towing has made a lot better than 10% profit margins at times in the past. So, in that case, we should all be pissed at Marv for screwing the consumer and screaming for price caps on towing services.

The reality in the world has changed over the years. You can't compare the past to the present without making a LOT of corrections to the way in which you are comparing them.

Never accuse me of blindly accepting things when it comes to energy. Have you ever read a financial statement for Exxon Mobil? I have. I know where their money came from and where it went. Yeah, they pay their execs a huge salary. But they also have trillions invested in exploration, safety equipment, and pay a LOT of people around the world. 10-12% margins are unacceptable for most companies. Why take the risk to make only 4-5% more than what you can earn in a bank account...

Let's just say that maybe you don't understand how the energy market works and have blindly accepted to believe what the media is paid to tell you. I haven't survived in the energy trading business this long by listening to Tom Brokaw or reading the local editorial pages. Blaming the oil companies is just an easy cop out, instead of really trying to figure out what caused prices to move. Not even Exxon has the capability to move the price of wholesale oil this much.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 08:51 PM   #54
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That is called demand. Increased demand = increased prices. That is simple


And its called gouging for us lesser educated , By the way i have never heard of Marvs towing

If i was the only avalible tow truck and my prices suddenly jump thats gouging , and its what you call economics 101 by the way . I agree to disagree . Given the fact i retired last fall i really doubt that will happen however
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Old May 17th, 2007, 09:11 PM   #55
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That is called demand. Increased demand = increased prices. That is simple


And its called gouging for us lesser educated , By the way i have never heard of Marvs towing

If i was the only avalible tow truck and my prices suddenly jump thats gouging , and its what you call economics 101 by the way . I agree to disagree . Given the fact i retired last fall i really doubt that will happen however
At least you figured out the less educated part. Prices rising from increased demand isn't in any way shape or form price gouging. I won't even bother going into that discussion. You seem to be happy in your ignorance. Far be it from me to ruin that for you.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 09:24 PM   #56
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At least you figured out the less educated part. Prices rising from increased demand isn't in any way shape or form price gouging. I won't even bother going into that discussion. You seem to be happy in your ignorance. Far be it from me to ruin that for you.
Well iv been polite in my post , atleast i hope so . Your arrogance doesnt not convince me you are correct in your assumtions .

Iv long noticed the highly educated can not grasp the simple .

You stated in your first post gas goes up due to state regulations on fuel mix . That was not the case 25 years ago then you start a song and dance and avoid the simple . If your job goes to hell on you , look into politics .:tonka:

By the way when you compared a small company to a giant corporation that sir is far left field .
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Old May 17th, 2007, 09:33 PM   #57
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You've continued to "politely" tell me how I don't know anything because that isn't the way it used to be 25 years ago. You keep talking about missing the "simple". There is nothing simple about energy prices. There is nothing far left field about comparing small and large companies. That is the whole reason behind using ratios. But, it's not worth explaining that because I'm obviously some dumb youngster. I've refuted your points, but you refuse to evaluate anything I've said. Go back to your dumptruck and I will keep the lights on.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 09:47 PM   #58
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You've continued to "politely" tell me how I don't know anything because that isn't the way it used to be 25 years ago. You keep talking about missing the "simple". There is nothing simple about energy prices. There is nothing far left field about comparing small and large companies. That is the whole reason behind using ratios. But, it's not worth explaining that because I'm obviously some dumb youngster. I've refuted your points, but you refuse to evaluate anything I've said. Go back to your dumptruck and I will keep the lights on.
Im sure you will . If it makes you feel any better i finished law school with a 3.89 gpa . But we learned the word " humble " some where along the way .

Arrogance was thought to be distasteful .
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Old May 17th, 2007, 09:51 PM   #59
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Scrambler the less educated line was uncalled for

Although you seem to know alot about oil companies I think that G unit has some valid points.

If the oil companies really wanted to they don't have to make multi billions from us at a time when there is alot of other economic hardship going around.

They are gouging as are many gas stations. What prevents them from doing so ...Granholms idle threats? .why else would there be such a wide range of prices in the same small areas and huge jumps overnight. Within many cities you see 10-30 cent price differences they are all required to buy the same special environmental blends right?

At least we can all agree that it was the unions fault right )
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Old May 17th, 2007, 10:05 PM   #60
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At least we can all agree that it was the unions fault right )
Yup
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