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Old May 13th, 2007, 08:50 PM   #21
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ok this aint racist or nothin but to me black people came from Evoulution and White people came from Creationism. But I still like some black people so don't think im racist just because I think that. It just makes more sense that way I guess.
What? Wait....this is Chiefhoohaw isn't it?
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Old May 13th, 2007, 09:43 PM   #22
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Yea 89 your right I am a mother fucker!!! I fucked your mom didnt I???????
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Old May 13th, 2007, 09:44 PM   #23
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what the hell is cheifhoohaw??????? haha
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Old May 13th, 2007, 10:02 PM   #24
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Yea 89 your right I am a mother fucker!!! I fucked your mom didnt I???????
my mom died last year.

BTW, its 86, get your eyes checked.
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Old May 13th, 2007, 10:25 PM   #25
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Can you please list some of these "leading biologists" so that I may look them up and confirm their credibility? It is easy to make such a statement without backing it up with real facts.

Thanks!
Here are a few:

Dr Paul Ackerman, Psychologist
Dr E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics
Dr James Allan, Geneticist
Dr Steve Austin, Geologist
Dr S.E. Aw, Biochemist
Dr Thomas Barnes, Physicist
Dr Geoff Barnard, Immunologist
Dr Don Batten, Plant physiologist, tropical fruit expert
Dr Donald Baumann, Solid State Physics, Professor of Biology and Chemistry, Cedarville University
Dr John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
Dr Jerry Bergman, Psychologist
Dr Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
Dr Raymond G. Bohlin, Biologist
Dr Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry
Dr David Boylan, Chemical Engineer
Prof. Stuart Burgess, Engineering and Biomimetics, Professor of Design & Nature, Head of Department, Mechanical Engineering, University of Bristol (UK)
Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
Dr Robert W. Carter, PhD Marine Biology
Dr David Catchpoole, Plant Physiologist (read his testimony)
Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
Dr Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
Dr Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
Dr Xidong Chen, Solid State Physics, Assistant Professor of Physics, Cedarville University
Dr Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist
Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
Dr John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering
Dr Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist
Dr Bob Compton, DVM
Dr Ken Cumming, Biologist
Dr Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist
Dr William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics
Dr Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
Dr Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist
Dr Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging
Dr Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
Dr Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
Dr Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
Dr Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
Dr David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
Dr Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div
Dr Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist
Dr Ted Driggers, Operations research
Robert H. Eckel, Medical Research
Dr André Eggen, Geneticist
Dr Leroy Eimers, Atmospheric Science, Professor of Physics and Mathematics, Cedarville University
Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy
Dr Dennis Flentge, Physical Chemistry, Professor of Chemistry and Chair of the Department of Science and Mathematics, Cedarville University
Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry
Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
Dr Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science
Dr Paul Giem, Medical Research
Dr Maciej Giertych, Geneticist
Dr Duane Gish, Biochemist
Dr Werner Gitt, Information Scientist
Dr Steven Gollmer, Atmospheric Science, Professor of Physics, Cedarville University
Dr D.B. Gower, Biochemistry
Dr Dianne Grocott, Psychiatrist
Dr Stephen Grocott, Industrial Chemist
Dr Donald Hamann, Food Scientist
Dr Barry Harker, Philosopher
Dr Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics
Dr John Hartnett, Physicist and Cosmologist
Dr Mark Harwood, Satellite Communications
Dr Joe Havel, Botanist, Silviculturist, Ecophysiologist
Dr George Hawke, Environmental Scientist
Dr Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist
Dr Larry Helmick, Organic Chemistry, Professor of Chemistry, Cedarville University
Dr Harold R. Henry, Engineer
Dr Jonathan Henry, Astronomy
Dr Joseph Henson, Entomologist
Dr Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy
Dr Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service
Dr Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist
Dr Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science
Dr Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
Dr George F. Howe, Botany
Dr Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist
Dr Russell Humphreys, Physicist
Dr James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
Evan Jamieson, Hydrometallurgy
George T. Javor, Biochemistry
Dr Pierre Jerlström, Creationist Molecular Biologist
Dr Arthur Jones, Biology
Dr Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon
Dr Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist
Dr Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics
Dr Dean Kenyon, Biologist
Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry
Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science
Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering
Dr John W. Klotz, Biologist
Dr Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
Dr Felix Konotey-Ahulu, Physician, leading expert on sickle-cell anemia
Dr Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
Dr John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry
Dr Johan Kruger, Zoology
Dr Heather Kuruvilla, Cell biology, Associate Professor of Biology, Cedarville University
Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics
Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology
Dr John Leslie, Biochemist
Prof. Lane P. Lester, Biologist, Genetics
Dr Jean Lightner, Agriculture, Veterinary science
Dr Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist
Dr Alan Love, Chemist
Dr Ian Macreadie, Molecular Biologist and Microbiologist
Dr John Marcus, Molecular Biologist
Dr George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher
Dr Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemistry
Dr Mark McClain, Inorganic Chemistry, Associate Professor of Chemistry, Cedarville University
Dr John McEwan, Organic Chemistry
Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics
Dr David Menton, Anatomist
Dr Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist
Dr John Meyer, Physiologist
Dr Douglas Miller, Professor of Chemistry, Cedarville University
Dr Albert Mills, Reproductive Physiologist, Embryologist
Colin W. Mitchell, Geography
Dr John N. Moore, Science Educator
Dr John W. Moreland, Mechanical Engineer and Dentist
Dr Henry M. Morris, Hydrologist
Dr John D. Morris, Geologist
Dr Len Morris, Physiologist
Dr Graeme Mortimer, Geologist
Stanley A. Mumma, Architectural Engineering
Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering
Dr Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher
Dr David Oderberg, Philosopher
Prof. John Oller, Linguistics
Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology
Dr John Osgood, Medical Practitioner
Dr Charles Pallaghy, Botanist
Dr Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology)
Dr David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon
Dr Terry Phipps, Professor of Biology, Cedarville University
Dr Jules H. Poirier, Aeronautics, Electronics
Prof. Richard Porter
Dr Georgia Purdom, Molecular Genetics
Dr John Rankin, Cosmologist
Dr A.S. Reece, M.D.
Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics
Dr Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
Dr David Rosevear, Chemist
Dr Ariel A. Roth, Biology
Dr Ron Samec, Astronomy
Dr Jonathan D. Sarfati, Physical chemist / spectroscopist

Dr Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist
Dr Ian Scott, Educator
Dr Saami Shaibani, Forensic Physicist
Dr Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry
Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science
Dr Mikhail Shulgin, Physics
Dr Emil Silvestru, Geologist/karstologist
Dr Heather Kuruvilla, Plant Physiology, Senior Professor of Biology, Cedarville University
Dr Roger Simpson, Engineer
Dr Harold Slusher, Geophysicist
Dr E. Norbert Smith, Zoologist
Dr Andrew Snelling, Geologist
Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science
Dr Timothy G. Standish, Biology
Prof. James Stark, Assistant Professor of Science Education
Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer
Dr Esther Su, Biochemistry
Dr Dennis Sullivan, Biology, surgery, chemistry, Professor of Biology, Cedarville University
Dr Charles Taylor, Linguistics
Dr Stephen Taylor, Electrical Engineering
Dr Ker C. Thomson, Geophysics
Dr Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
Dr Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
Dr Royal Truman, Organic Chemist
Dr Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science
Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
Dr Joachim Vetter, Biologist
Dr Tas Walker, Mechanical Engineer and Geologist
Dr Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer
Dr Keith Wanser, Physicist
Dr Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology)
Dr A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics
Dr John Whitmore, Geologist/Paleontologist
Dr Carl Wieland, Medical doctor
Dr Lara Wieland, Medical doctor
Dr Alexander Williams, Botanist
Dr Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and Archaeologist
Dr Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist
Dr Bryant Wood, Creationist Archaeologist
Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics
Dr Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
Dr Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
Dr Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
Dr Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist
Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography
Dr Henry Zuill, Biology

In case that isn't enough for you, here are a few dozen more:
http://www.icr.org/research/index/research_biosci/

http://www.icr.org/research/index/research_physci/


This is a very light sampling and was the first link I pulled up on the internet. Pretty easy to find alot of scientists who believe this! I'm sure you will find at least as many that don't believe, but the point is, there are several leading intelligent scientists in all fields that believe in creationsim!

Last edited by 87'YJ; May 13th, 2007 at 10:31 PM.
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Old May 13th, 2007, 10:36 PM   #26
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Here are a few:

In case that isn't enough for you, here are a few dozen more:
http://www.icr.org/research/index/research_biosci/

http://www.icr.org/research/index/research_physci/


This is a very light sampling and was the first link I pulled up on the internet. Pretty easy to find alot of scientists who believe this! I'm sure you will find at least as many that don't believe, but the point is, there are several leading intelligent scientists in all fields that believe in creationsim!
Thanks a bunch! I will research a sampling of them and figure out whether or not they are "leading scientists" or not. For the record, what I consider "leading" is having publications in major peer reviewed journals as well as being employed at a reputable institution - industrial/government/academia doesnt matter as long as it isnt "Bobs Community College"

Thanks! I appreciate that you had some names to bring up!
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Old May 13th, 2007, 10:50 PM   #27
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Thanks a bunch! I will research a sampling of them and figure out whether or not they are "leading scientists" or not. For the record, what I consider "leading" is having publications in major peer reviewed journals as well as being employed at a reputable institution - industrial/government/academia doesnt matter as long as it isnt "Bobs Community College"

Thanks! I appreciate that you had some names to bring up!
No problem man, I love this stuff!
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Old May 13th, 2007, 11:59 PM   #28
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my mom died last year.

BTW, its 86, get your eyes checked.



O whoops maybe it wasnt youe mom, coulda been a sister or girlfriend!!!!!!! Who Knows???
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Old May 14th, 2007, 12:56 AM   #29
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My question is this:
We still have monkeys
We still have people
Why dont we have any of the inbetweeners?

Evolution sounds nice, but God created the earth, in six days, and rested on the seventh.
There were "inbetweeners" it's just that they all died off for some unknown reason. I know that reason sounds stupid, but it could be as simple as "they were killed off by predators." I mean that's what we humans did to the Dodo bird in the 17th century. The Dodo was just a branch of a species that no longer exists.


Fossil records date back to a species known as Australopithecus afarensis which lived 3-4 million years ago. This species walked upright, had long arms, short legs, an ape-like skull and large canine teeth...much like a chimpanzee.

The fossil records in the human lineage include Homo habilis, H. erectus, and H. sapiens. Our past does not include Neandertals, or other such species that have branched off from each other.



Micro evolution makes more sense to me than does macro evolution. And truthfully, I don't think that evolution of any kind has a "purpose." I think it just happens because of survival of the fittest. Whichever traits allow a creature to survive above others will be selected for, and thus evolution will occur with each new generation.


And just to clarify...I'm not saying evolution is better than creationism, or vice versa. I'm just stating my view on how we came to be.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 01:00 AM   #30
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why did we kill all the inbetweeners, and leave the origional? see, I would assume that since monkeys were the first ones, they would be killed first, by the next best thing? See where im going?
too many holes for me.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 01:41 AM   #31
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why did we kill all the inbetweeners, and leave the origional? see, I would assume that since monkeys were the first ones, they would be killed first, by the next best thing? See where im going?
too many holes for me.
"we" didn't necessarily kill them off. I'm just saying there are many factors that could have killed them off. Heck even weather conditions and lack of food could have done it. Not all species in our lineage ate the same things. Some ate meat, some ate berries, some ate both. Some species lived in the icy regions, others warm...some near the water, some traveled. Some coexisted, others didn't.

We didn't evolve from chimps, we evolved from the same lineage as the chimps...they are one branch, we are another. I agree that there are many holes, but if you look at the evolution of the horse, almost all of the "inbetweeners" are accounted for. The branching of the lines is amazing, there were many, many branches from the "original" and yet only one exists today.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/searc...e0e46&ei=UTF-8
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Old May 14th, 2007, 07:28 AM   #32
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"we" didn't necessarily kill them off. I'm just saying there are many factors that could have killed them off. Heck even weather conditions and lack of food could have done it. Not all species in our lineage ate the same things. Some ate meat, some ate berries, some ate both. Some species lived in the icy regions, others warm...some near the water, some traveled. Some coexisted, others didn't.

We didn't evolve from chimps, we evolved from the same lineage as the chimps...they are one branch, we are another. I agree that there are many holes, but if you look at the evolution of the horse, almost all of the "inbetweeners" are accounted for. The branching of the lines is amazing, there were many, many branches from the "original" and yet only one exists today.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/searc...e0e46&ei=UTF-8
The problem with what you're saying here is that, there are, in reality, no "links" between species. While it does appear that many animals and species are similar, there are no links present in the world today (or in the fossil record, that show otherwise.

And realize, if evolution were true, it would be going on right now. Therefore, there would be "links" all over the place because it would still be happening!

Instead, we have clear and distinct lines between species, not one long clear "interspecies" trail from a single celled organism all the way to man. It doesn't add up.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 08:27 AM   #33
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The fossil records in the human lineage include Homo habilis, H. erectus, and H. sapiens. Our past does not include Neandertals, or other such species that have branched off from each other.
Glad someone mentioned that. Most people don't ever realize this (mostly because of the way it's taught in school, I was one of the lucky ones that was taught evolution as a theory and not fact). The theory behind the Neanderthals, and Homo Sapiens Sapiens, is that we started at the same place, but evolved differently over the course time in vastly differing climates. The Neanderthals evolved the way they did because they were stuck in the icy north during the ice age. Sapiens Sapiens evolved the way it did, because it was stuck closer to the equator, were there were much higher temperatures, but almost no water (drought, possibly caused by the mass amounts of frozen water in the north). There is evidence that these two species met, and even bred together, however shortly after the meeting between Sapiens Sapiens and Neanderthalensis, the fossil trail for Neanderthals abruptly stops.

My point, is that not all of the "upright apes" that fall into the genus Homo come straight to us. There are several divergent species that died out, leaving no surviving ancestors.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 08:36 AM   #34
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And realize, if evolution were true, it would be going on right now. Therefore, there would be "links" all over the place because it would still be happening!
Except that now, you must introduce the human factor. There likely would have been variations occurring in humans, but as modern science advances (and we use our exceptionally large brains), the human lifespan has been increased several fold. Science has finally reached a point where we can actively look for diversification between species thats happening today, but we've also reached a point where we have a fairly stable climate, we've cured nearly every major biological threat to our existence (save ourselves), and we have no need to evolve. We are already perfectly adapted to our environments, so why would we need to evolve? Thanks to our brain capacity, we've solved most every problem that would potentially cause an evolutionary shift.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 09:03 AM   #35
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evolution is why we're here.

Anybody with half a brain will understand religion is a crutch for the weak. An easy way out by saying some mystical being made up shit that they can't explain.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 09:29 AM   #36
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For the record, what I consider "leading" is having publications in major peer reviewed journals as well as being employed at a reputable institution - industrial/government/academia doesnt matter as long as it isnt "Bobs Community College"
That is a pretty loose interpretation of the term "leading scientist", but thank you. I guess I can add "leading scientist" to my C.V. now since I have numerous publications, have worked for the #1 global pharmaceutical company for 12 years and have contributed to many drugs making it to clinic.

I heard a radio interview once with someone who was considered a forefront expert in evolution. His stance also was that the evolution observed on small scales in micro-organism did not support the larger theory of divergent species. I can't remember his name now. Maybe I'll have time to search at lunch.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 09:33 AM   #37
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The problem with what you're saying here is that, there are, in reality, no "links" between species. While it does appear that many animals and species are similar, there are no links present in the world today (or in the fossil record, that show otherwise.

And realize, if evolution were true, it would be going on right now. Therefore, there would be "links" all over the place because it would still be happening!

Instead, we have clear and distinct lines between species, not one long clear "interspecies" trail from a single celled organism all the way to man. It doesn't add up.
No. there are links. Genetic links. You can look at the skulls from our ancestors and see how our brains got bigger, and how we slowly evolved to an upright posture. I've seen the skulls, held them...examined them. There are links.

PLUS evolution IS happening. But since we live in a society that demands answers and proof NOW we can't comprehend the fact that to took us humans 10+ Million years to get to where we are now. SO of course we can't SEE it happening.
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Old May 14th, 2007, 09:36 AM   #38
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evolution is why we're here.

Anybody with half a brain will understand religion is a crutch for the weak. An easy way out by saying some mystical being made up shit that they can't explain.
Haha. Just stirrin the pot!

I guess I'm totally mislead and have only half a brain. :tonka:

I've have and will continue to serve this "mystical being"
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Old May 14th, 2007, 09:38 AM   #39
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Haha. Just stirrin the pot!

I guess I'm totally mislead and have only half a brain. :tonka:

I've have and will continue to serve this "mystical being"

I love you man
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Old May 14th, 2007, 09:41 AM   #40
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No. there are links. Genetic links. You can look at the skulls from our ancestors and see how our brains got bigger, and how we slowly evolved to an upright posture. I've seen the skulls, held them...examined them. There are links.

PLUS evolution IS happening. But since we live in a society that demands answers and proof NOW we can't comprehend the fact that to took us humans 10+ Million years to get to where we are now. SO of course we can't SEE it happening.
I argue that evolution IS NOT happening because regardless of humans involvement in earth, we cannot just change the "all powerful" process of evolution. It would "evolve" around human interference

You must realize that regardless of time, there would still always be missing links walking around every where! There would not be broken and clear species lines. there would be absolutely no species lines. There would be half fish half lizards, half man half monkey, half bird half goats everywhere. Not just possible skull pieces here and there. These things would be ALL over the place living among us.

That is evolutions main issue. How do you describe that evolution led us to a place that has distinct boundaries between species? It completely contradicts the theory.
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