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Old May 23rd, 2007, 12:02 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
Lumber = $$$$$$$$$$$$$ = OK to trash the land

4 wheeler = $ = Not OK to make a rut.
We need to make that into a new bumper sticker!
Put it right next to the one with a Jeep picture, marked as an endangered species.
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 12:11 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
alright ford ur taking it way out of context all these people were saying is that they cant believe that a forest company can fall a whole forest but orv's cant go on a trail if its to muddy.... they werent saying that forest companys are bad everyone needs paper they are just pointing out that the system is wacked.

Forest land is "Private Property" I haven't ever been ticketed for trenching my own land with my boggers!

This debate is over, I'm sorry I even posted.
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 12:48 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by FORD FLARESIDE View Post
Forest land is "Private Property" I haven't ever been ticketed for trenching my own land with my boggers!

This debate is over, I'm sorry I even posted.
So, school me on this. NFS stands for National Forest Service. You mean the land that they claim is actually yours? Wow, I thought that when I traveled on land that was posted as state land and they were logging it that it belonged to Michigan.

Now to be serious, the discussion we have been having is about "government" owned land that is being logged. Not private land. We all know that you can make ruts on your own private land.
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 01:22 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Maverick View Post
alright ford ur taking it way out of context all these people were saying is that they cant believe that a forest company can fall a whole forest but orv's cant go on a trail if its to muddy.... they werent saying that forest companys are bad everyone needs paper they are just pointing out that the system is wacked.

Thats all I was saying and if you were caught driving through this wreckage you would get a ticket. All I am saying is lets us wheel. mud no mud, whatever.

PS Added Personally I would love to be the guy that grabs a tree with a mechanical arm, strips it of branches then cuts it into logs. I think that would be a blast. Or be a 80ton dump truck driver. That would be cool too. but my wife WON'T LET ME move up north. LOL

Last edited by maximusdelirious; May 23rd, 2007 at 01:26 PM.
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 04:44 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by phittie1100 View Post
We need to make that into a new bumper sticker!
Put it right next to the one with a Jeep picture, marked as an endangered species.
Great idea for a bumper sticker Paul! thats funny and right on the money
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 05:08 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
So, school me on this. NFS stands for National Forest Service. You mean the land that they claim is actually yours? Wow, I thought that when I traveled on land that was posted as state land and they were logging it that it belonged to Michigan.

Now to be serious, the discussion we have been having is about "government" owned land that is being logged. Not private land. We all know that you can make ruts on your own private land.
Don't forget that they are back at it with the NFS and trying to shut the land down to us. They aren't doing the country as a whole. They are starting out West. The Dems took control of the Sneate and HoR and it didn't take long to reappear.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1975
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 08:27 PM   #27
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We have this issue here. It is called forest certification. Basically, they are doing audits of our forests just like an ISO cert. The greenie publishers are saying they won't buy pulp unless it is "certified". It's a huge issue.
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 09:29 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
We have this issue here. It is called forest certification. Basically, they are doing audits of our forests just like an ISO cert. The greenie publishers are saying they won't buy pulp unless it is "certified". It's a huge issue.
I just read some on the DNR's website about this. We could be in trouble.

"While viewing the ORV damage, employees from the Cadillac FMU answer questions that are fired at them by the internal audit team. When was the damage first discovered? How can you remedy it? Why are the ORV riders doing this? Each question is handled by an employee, his or her response carefully evaluated by Rockwell. Rockwell will be present at the actual audits, assisting DNR employees with “push back” on the auditors’ probing questions about forest management issues. He also will help formulate remedies for particular deficiencies identified in the audit."
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Old May 24th, 2007, 12:41 AM   #29
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GREAT site !! Had to add it to my Favorites!
CRAPPY Bill !!!:stan3:

Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
It is called forest certification.
United Four Wheel Drive Associations Attorney, Carla Boucher, is working with the various Certification Agencies to readdress the ORV issues and make them less stringent on the States. Let's ALL wish her success!
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Old May 24th, 2007, 12:53 AM   #30
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Old May 24th, 2007, 01:24 AM   #31
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Take a look at the sponsor list. There was only 1 or 2 non-Dems on the list.
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Old May 25th, 2007, 09:05 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by tippy View Post
RBB, if you dont know, as much as your on here whats right or wrong, then you need to find something else to do in your life. I dont know you and i usually dont speak up, but most things you do and say on here are just ignorant, I'm sorry if I offend you, but with everything going on right now with the legality and issues concerning illegal wheeling, and you post pics!
I WAS JUST BRINGING TO LIGHT HOW HYPOCRITICAL SOME OF THESE GLFWDA GUYS ARE !!!! THEY ARE THE FIRST TO STAND UP AND BITCH WHEN SOMEONE IS OUT WHEELING, BUT THESE PIC. CAME FROM ONE OF THERE SPONSORED EVENTS ON PUBLIC LAND
















DONT GET ME RONG GLFWDA DOES GOOD THINGS FOR THIS SPORT BUT WHEELING IS WHEELING !!!! IT IS EROSIVE BUY NATURE IN MY EYES THIS HOLE THING IS LIKE BOW HUNTERS BITCHING ABOUT GUN HUNTERS, WHEN THEY ARE BOTH HUNTERS :miff: TRYING TO ENJOY THE SAME SPORT
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Old May 25th, 2007, 09:40 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by roll-bar Bob View Post
I WAS JUST BRINGING TO LIGHT HOW HYPOCRITICAL SOME OF THESE GLFWDA GUYS ARE !!!! THEY ARE THE FIRST TO STAND UP AND BITCH WHEN SOMEONE IS OUT WHEELING, BUT THESE PIC. CAME FROM ONE OF THERE SPONSORED EVENTS ON PUBLIC LAND


DONT GET ME RONG GLFWDA DOES GOOD THINGS FOR THIS SPORT BUT WHEELING IS WHEELING !!!! IT IS EROSIVE BUY NATURE IN MY EYES THIS HOLE THING IS LIKE BOW HUNTERS BITCHING ABOUT GUN HUNTERS, WHEN THEY ARE BOTH HUNTERS :miff: TRYING TO ENJOY THE SAME SPORT
OUCH! LOL Maybe they are all in 2wd!
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Old May 25th, 2007, 09:41 AM   #34
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OK, Time to make some claifications. This particular trail is called "Legrand" and it is a trail that was reviewed with the Indian River DNR and "approved". The trail was then ridden with the Trolls after the event to confirm that no one had gotten off of the trail.

In fact, when I wanted to divert around one of the ruttier areas, I was told by the trail leader that the DNR would prefer us to go through the ruts rather than create new ruts as a "bypass". This is no different than what was done on Drummond Island by MSG at the claypits. The only reason the clay pits are closed down was because of too many people going around them and creating bypasses.

In addition, the DNR will allow a variation to the laws under a special events permit, which this was.


Now, for all of you who don't know, let me explain what happened with RBB on this run that created a bad image for all of us. On Friday night, the Trolls offer a night run. I was at the back of this run and RBB was in the middle of the pack. As the group was turning left off of a paved road onto a gravel road, there were cars sitting at the stop sign on the gravel road waiting for all of us.

RBB, in his assenine way, decided to do a power turn in front of the cars. He lost control and slid sideways into the ditch literally beside the cars sitting at the stop sign. WAY TO SHOW RESPONSIBLE WHEELING.

He continued to drive like a jackass throughout the run until he was reprimanded at least once.

The next day, Vic Brasseur, president of the Trolls pulled RBB aside and told him that the other participants of the run expressed a dislike of his driving and he was told that if he didn't tone it down, he would not be allowed on the rest of the run.

The following year, the Trolls decided to cancel the Spring Opener and asked that no one come to Indian River on the usual weekend so as to not create issues with the DNR.

RBB replied that "it was his constitutional right to go where ever he dam well pleased" and "no one was going to tell him what to do".

So, there you have it.......... somebody once again trying to create issues where it doesn't need to be.

Jim

Last edited by whiterhino; May 25th, 2007 at 10:01 AM.
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Old May 25th, 2007, 09:52 AM   #35
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RBB,
A few things you need to understand before you start accusing folks of wrongdoings without knowing or understand the facts.

1. The pictures came from an event which was operated under an EVENT PERMIT. Event permits are specific permission given by the DNR to a group to travel on specific forest roads. This permission is frequently given to many groups, GLFWDA, TROLLS, MSG and the DOA run, SWAMPSTOMPERS for their Super Duper run a few years back, MUDCHUGGERS and SNO-BLIND, SOFO and SNO-FARI and even JEEP JAMBOREE. Ordaniarilly you would NOT be able to travel these roads BUT, with permission from the DNR you are allowed to. That's what a permit does for you.

2. Travel down forest roads which ordainarily would be possible during dry conditions but is hampered due to weather related (i.e. snow or flooded) IS allowed to use 4WD to travel safely.
The DNR has spelled this out in an official letter which we had printed in the Boondocker a few years back.

In either case I don't see there to be a violation as you allude to.

My question to you is; what is it that your trying to accomplish with this accusation? GLFWDA has always promoted responsible 4 wheeling. We have done our best, when we've know about violation, to educate users. The problem comes with so many jurisdictional agencies involved, and a law that is selectively applied in some cases. Trying to give all the users the knowledge to know what is right and wrong.
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Old May 25th, 2007, 10:18 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiterhino View Post
OK, Time to make some claifications. This particular trail is called "Legrand" and it is a trail that was reviewed with the Indian River DNR and "approved". The trail was then ridden with the Trolls after the event to confirm that no one had gotten off of the trail.

In fact, when I wanted to divert around one of the ruttier areas, I was told by the trail leader that the DNR would prefer us to go through the ruts rather than create new ruts as a "bypass". This is no different than what was done on Drummond Island by MSG at the claypits. The only reason the clay pits were closed down was because of too many people going around them and creating bypasses.

In addition, the DNR will allow a variation to the laws under a special events permit, which this was.


Now, for all of you who don't know, let me explain what happened with RBB on this run that created a bad image for all of us. On Friday night, the Trolls offer a night run. I was at the back of this run and RBB was in the middle of the pack. As the group was turning left off of a paved road onto a gravel road, there were cars sitting at the stop sign on the gravel road waiting for all of us.

RBB, in his assenine way, decided to do a power turn in front of the cars. He lost control and slid sideways into the ditch literally beside the cars sitting at the stop sign. WAY TO SHOW RESPONSIBLE WHEELING.

He continued to drive like a jackass throughout the run until he was reprimanded at least once.

The next day, Vic Brasseur, president of the Trolls pulled RBB aside and told him that the other participants of the run expressed a dislike of his driving and he was told that if he didn't tone it down, he would not be allowed on the rest of the run.

The following year, the Trolls decided to cancel the Spring Opener and asked that no one come to Indian River on the usual weekend so as to not create issues with the DNR.

RBB replied that "it was his constitutional right to go where ever he dam well pleased" and "no one was going to tell him what to do".

So, there you have it.......... somebody once again trying to create where it doesn't need to be.

Jim


THANKS FOR FILLING US IN !!!!!!!

YES IT WAS MY FIRST TRIP INTO THE WOODS WITH SENIOR CITIZENS AND YES I RAN AROUND LIKE A JACKASS WITH A FULL TANK OF GAS DID I GET " A TALKING " TO BUY THE ELDERS FOR HAVING FUN.....YES .......IS THAT WHY I TRAILERED 4 HOURS NORTH FOR THE WEEKEND ......YES ..... WERE THEY RUNNING ON TRAILS THAT BUY LAW WERE NOT PASSABLE WITH A 2X4 ......YES ...... DID THE DNR TELL OUR TRAIL LEADER TO BREAK THE LAW .... I DONT KNOW .....

I HEARED STORYS THAT THE NEXT YEAR A GROUP OF RIGS HAD A BLAST RUNNING AROUND THOSE WOODS WITH NO TROUBLE
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Old May 25th, 2007, 10:22 AM   #37
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OH SNAP RBB They laid it down on you didn't they?

I was thinking before I even got to white rhino and kb8myf's posts that typically when teh GLFWDA holds an event on public land they get an approval or a permit from the DNR.

The GLFWDA is in our best interest and takes precautions PRIOR to wheeling to help the sport, not AFTER they do something as "damage control"

Come on RBB quit trying to stir the pot and realize theses guys are trying to help the sport that YOU enjoy while simultaneously enjoying the sport themselves.
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Old May 25th, 2007, 10:25 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by UP_ROKTOY View Post
I was thinking before I even got to white rhino and kb8myf's posts that typically when teh GLFWDA holds an event on public land they get an approval or a permit from the DNR.

The GLFWDA is in our best interest and takes precautions PRIOR to wheeling to help the sport, not AFTER they do something as "damage control"
Well put. Thanks also for explaining things white rhino and kb.
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Old May 25th, 2007, 10:27 AM   #39
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Yep To Much Gas!!!!!!!!!

But I Never Hit Anything !!!!!!!!!
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Old May 25th, 2007, 10:30 AM   #40
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I HEARED STORYS THAT THE NEXT YEAR A GROUP OF RIGS HAD A BLAST RUNNING AROUND THOSE WOODS WITH NO TROUBLE

They probably had a blast and didn't get into to trouble because they acted responsibly, can the same be said for your apparant actions?

There is a big difference between a responsible group of people wheeling in a "grey" area, and a group of people power sliding fish taling and overall driving like an idiot wheelin in a "grey" area.....

Now take into account the amount of work that went into obtaining permission to run the "grey" area BEFORE the responsible group went out for the trail ride.....

Do the math RBB your acting "a fool"
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