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Old April 23rd, 2007, 07:08 PM   #1
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Default GLFWDA trail maintenance

GLFWDA will be doing trail maintenance on the trails in the Atlanta, MI area on May 19 and 20. We're looking for help. Unfortunatly due to insurance reasons you must be a GLFWDA member to help.

We will meet at the BP station on the north end of "downtown" Atlanta at 9am to divide up into groups. Please bring your own lunch, plenty of liquids, boots and a decent set of gloves. Other handy tools include handsaw, hammer, and loppers.

I will be heading up Thursday or early Friday to prerun the trails. I plan on staying at Clear Lake State Park.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 07:44 PM   #2
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GLFWDA will be doing trail maintenance on the trails in the Atlanta, MI area on May 19 and 20. We're looking for help. Unfortunatly due to insurance reasons you must be a GLFWDA member to help.

We will meet at the BP station on the north end of "downtown" Atlanta at 9am to divide up into groups. Please bring your own lunch, plenty of liquids, boots and a decent set of gloves. Other handy tools include handsaw, hammer, and loppers.

I will be heading up Thursday or early Friday to prerun the trails. I plan on staying at Clear Lake State Park.
I will have to renew my membership since this is my stomping grounds sort of. Can I renew my membership on the spot or do I have do it before hand?

What trails to you maintain? also depending on the group size we could do some burgers and hotdogs at my cottege which is a 4 minute walk from the state campground (8 minute drive though ) I will be there late Friday.

Chain saws allowed for fallen tree's?
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 08:08 PM   #3
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I think you can renew (or join) on line here: http://www.glfwda.org/join.html

I'll have to talk to the board about renew (or joining) there. We might be able to arrange something.

I think we have everything marked as "ORV route" on this map: http://www.dnr.state.mi.us/spatialda...rv/atlanta.pdf
Before anyone gets excited... they're mostly just 2 tracks and dirt roads, nothing challenging. We do it more to show we're willing to help maintain our trails, plus they give the association money for it.

We've used chainsaws for fallen trees in the past so I think it's allowed still. We just need to be careful. Liability, you know...

I'll let you know how big the group gets. I was thinking that we'd get some hotdogs and burgers to feed the crew Saturday evening. That be cool if we could do it at your place then people wouldn't have to pay to get into the state park if they're not staying there.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 08:20 PM   #4
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alright sounds good. I will let you know sooner on the date about my cottege. If not there is a state forest campground 4 miles south of the state park you could do it at.

what trails do you do though? the ones by the state park? the ones south of town?

I should have a chain saw up there if I remember to bring it.

I just need to renew. My membership has lagged about 8 months or so.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 09:01 PM   #5
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what trails do you do though? the ones by the state park? the ones south of town?
The map... http://www.dnr.state.mi.us/spatialda...rv/atlanta.pdf

Look at the map. Looks like north and mostly west of town.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 09:49 PM   #6
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i did. i just assumed you didn't do every single trail.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 12:34 AM   #7
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i did. i just assumed you didn't do every single trail.
Everything labeled "ORV route" on that map.

Most of it probably doesn't need much done. Mostly we make sure the stop signs and trail markers are there, trim brush if it's growing into the trail, and clear any fallen trees.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 01:08 PM   #8
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Everything labeled "ORV route" on that map.

Most of it probably doesn't need much done. Mostly we make sure the stop signs and trail markers are there, trim brush if it's growing into the trail, and clear any fallen trees.
alright sounds good.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 01:14 PM   #9
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Unfortunatly due to insurance reasons you must be a GLFWDA member to help. .
That seems kind of ridiculous.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 01:56 PM   #10
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That seems kind of ridiculous.
We are considered contract employees of the State Of MI, thus requiring insurance on our "employees"
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Old April 24th, 2007, 02:07 PM   #11
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We are considered contract employees of the State Of MI, thus requiring insurance on our "employees"
Oh, so you're being paid to do this.

That makes sense.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 04:09 PM   #12
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TRAIL MAINTENANCE HELPS PAY FOR GROUP INSURANCE FOR TRIPS LIKE



10 Meg Teaser Video
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Old April 24th, 2007, 05:23 PM   #13
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TRAIL MAINTENANCE HELPS PAY FOR GROUP INSURANCE FOR TRIPS LIKE



10 Meg Teaser Video
sooo .... getting paid to do a trail clean up supplies funds for wheeling that's done outside of MI? For some reason I'm thinking you may be misguided or I'm misinformed? Somebody please clarify.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 09:20 PM   #14
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For some reason I'm thinking you may be misguided or I'm misinformed?
Probably a little of each.

Before this thread goes horribly wrong let me try to explain the system as best I can.

The Michigan ORV trails and routes are maintained through a "grant" system. Groups, mainly user groups like GLFWDA, as well as clubs, motorcycle groups, ATV groups, ect... apply for grants to maintain certian trails or routes, and get paid a set amount per mile for what they maintain. This money it paid out of the ORV fund that we all pay into when we buy our ORV stickers. As far as I know the only requirement as to what the groups do with the money is they must buy insurance, not only to cover the people while their working, but also cover the group and the state against getting sued by anyone injured while using the areas we maintain.

Beyond that I don't think the state has any say in how we spend the money. As far as i know we could use it to have a big party with strippers and beer and the state would have no say in that. But what we do with the money is use it to help run the organization. Some primarily benifits GLFWDA members, like additional insurance for events, the quarterly news letter, costs assosiated with holding meetings, and all the other things related to running an association like GLFWDA. Some things help the 4 wheeling community at large, like attending meetings with various government agencys, writing letters to officials, ect...

As for the Canada trip featured in the video I don't know if any trail maintinance money was used to put it on beyond the money to generally run the orgination. Even the insurance isn't needed as Canada has never required us to get a permit.

Not that it matters. As long as the trails are maintained and insured the state doen't seem to care on what, or where, we spend the money.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 09:30 PM   #15
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That is a very respectable answer and I appreciate the honesty and clearification.

It's nice to know that some of the money that we pay out in ORV stickers is being used towards things like this. It sort of shows me that the state is willing to "fund" events that help us as a "wheeling community" look better.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 09:42 PM   #16
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Probably a little of each.

Before this thread goes horribly wrong let me try to explain the system as best I can.

The Michigan ORV trails and routes are maintained through a "grant" system. Groups, mainly user groups like GLFWDA, as well as clubs, motorcycle groups, ATV groups, ect... apply for grants to maintain certian trails or routes, and get paid a set amount per mile for what they maintain. This money it paid out of the ORV fund that we all pay into when we buy our ORV stickers. As far as I know the only requirement as to what the groups do with the money is they must buy insurance, not only to cover the people while their working, but also cover the group and the state against getting sued by anyone injured while using the areas we maintain.

Beyond that I don't think the state has any say in how we spend the money. As far as i know we could use it to have a big party with strippers and beer and the state would have no say in that. But what we do with the money is use it to help run the organization. Some primarily benifits GLFWDA members, like additional insurance for events, the quarterly news letter, costs assosiated with holding meetings, and all the other things related to running an association like GLFWDA. Some things help the 4 wheeling community at large, like attending meetings with various government agencys, writing letters to officials, ect...

As for the Canada trip featured in the video I don't know if any trail maintinance money was used to put it on beyond the money to generally run the orgination. Even the insurance isn't needed as Canada has never required us to get a permit.

Not that it matters. As long as the trails are maintained and insured the state doen't seem to care on what, or where, we spend the money.


Not to be a dick but I should buy a membership to GLFWDA, a ORV sticker and spend at least 80.00 in gas to come work for free? Don't get me wrong I pick up trash and clear trails everywhere I wheel and would like to support our sport but this seems like a waste of cash. GLFWDA gets a grant and they turn around and give it to some rich insurance broker so we can go work for free? I know its not really work to me because I enjoy being in the woods but if I want to come its going to cost me 150.00 or so.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 09:56 PM   #17
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Not to be a dick but I should buy a membership to GLFWDA, a ORV sticker and spend at least 80.00 in gas to come work for free? Don't get me wrong I pick up trash and clear trails everywhere I wheel and would like to support our sport but this seems like a waste of cash. GLFWDA gets a grant and they turn around and give it to some rich insurance broker so we can go work for free? I know its not really work to me because I enjoy being in the woods but if I want to come its going to cost me 150.00 or so.
No you shouldn't. I don't expect anyone to join GLFWDA just to go help us maintain trails. Why would you? But if you are a GLFWDA and are looking for a way to help the organization then here it is. If you don't want to join GLFWDA then don't.

BTW you don't need an ORV sticker, we will not be going anywhere that it is required on a street licenced vehicle.
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Old April 25th, 2007, 01:06 PM   #18
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[/COLOR]

Not to be a dick but I should buy a membership to GLFWDA, a ORV sticker and spend at least 80.00 in gas to come work for free? Don't get me wrong I pick up trash and clear trails everywhere I wheel and would like to support our sport but this seems like a waste of cash. GLFWDA gets a grant and they turn around and give it to some rich insurance broker so we can go work for free? I know its not really work to me because I enjoy being in the woods but if I want to come its going to cost me 150.00 or so.
YOU NAILED IT !!!! THAT IS WHY I DID NOT RENEW MY MEMBERSHIP LAST YEAR. GLFWDA DOES GREAT WORK AND HAS BAILED US OUT A TIME OR TWO IN THE PAST. I JUST GOT TO MUCH GOING OUT IN OTHER DIRECTIONS TO SPEND A WEEKEND SPENDING CASH TO WORK FOR A PORTION OF THAT CASH BACK TO HELP FUND TRIPS THAT I MOST LIKELY WONT GO ON
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Old April 25th, 2007, 01:25 PM   #19
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So, how many people have been involved in fund raisers for T-ball, band, girls scouts, boy scouts, or any other non profit organzation that relies on volunteers to help keep it going? Same thing....... if you believe in the organization and it is important to you, most people will volunteer some time and gas money.

Now for further clarification. Bruce covered it pretty well. The grant money covers our REQUIRED insurance. That insurance ALSO gives us an umbrella that is good for up to 4 other events. In case you don't know, events on state land like DOA, SnoFari, Sno-Blind, etc all require an insurance policy. As Bruce said, the money is also used for operating costs. As an example, last weekend's meeting room for the quarterly meeting.

We also just flew in and covered hotel costs to bring Carla Boucher, the UFWDA attorney in to speak.

Yes, a portion of the money is given back to the group doing the maintenance. Some of the clubs use this as a fund raiser. The group can use it as they see fit. It is my understanding that Bruce was going to pay for some food and donate the rest back to GLFWDA.

Finally, although it could, the money is not used to cover the event in Canada. There is no insurance or permit required for this event. The fees for the event covered it's costs such as food. It was also considered a fund raiser for the organization.

Think of it as similar to "adopt a highway".
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Old April 25th, 2007, 01:37 PM   #20
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Same thing....... if you believe in the organization and it is important to you, most people will volunteer some time and gas money.
This is where my problem is.

NOWHERE on the GLFWDA website does it state what the organization has done for michigan.

Unless I'm missing something.

I'd love to donate, but I donate where I see the money would be going to use.

Is there a way to see the financials of the organization? Do you have to be a member to view these?
\

------------- From your website:

Our Purpose

* Maintaining close contacts between 4WD clubs and individuals. (wtf does this mean? You chat with people?)
* Promoting cooperation, friendship, and more 4-wheeling between clubs.
(wtf does this mean? I have to pay you money so you make different 4wd clubs friends?)
* Promote conservation, ecology and help preserve the land through controlled use. (I'd like to see facts)
* Bring forth a united voice and effort to benefit 4WD owners and associates. (huh? need proof)
* Participating in and supporting civic activities (wtf does this mean?)

----------------


I'm not being a dick, just letting you know what it looks like from the outside.

If you change your site to reflect what the org has actually done, it would probably help membership, including me joining.

IMO, you should advertise like this:
http://twotrackers.org/events.php
In that one single flyer, I see what they have done with that one event, I see that they care about cleaning up trails, and I see people doing good things. Nowhere does it say they're promoting friendship between clubs, or promoting cooperation. I see a group of people kicking ass and cleaning up. If they put up a donation online saying they needed money for dumpsters, I would be the FIRST person to donate.

When I go to your GLFWDA forum, I find a "private" area. That doesn't let me see what the org is doing. Seems secretive, and normally org's aren't like that.
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