Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!







Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 4th, 2007, 06:06 AM   #41
fr3db3ar
KISS MY AVATAR
 
fr3db3ar's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Holland
Posts: 5,426
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Send a message via ICQ to fr3db3ar Send a message via AIM to fr3db3ar Send a message via Yahoo to fr3db3ar
Default

Just my opinion.....although some argue that the bible is divinely inspired.....it's story's about men written by men...and rewritten through history......therefore.....fallable.....it requires faith to believe with no factual evidence.

I lean to evolution......

Just my $.02

fr3db3ar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 07:43 AM   #42
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barb View Post
nah, but that's how st. nick started out. it evolved into a money thing later.

it turned into common practice b/c of tradition. Later generations may not believe, but still practice the family get togethers. Many in my family believe, and many are apathetic.

It may be for the 'wrong' reason, but i don't think i'll ever give crap to people who do celebrate a tradition with their families. It's still about tradition and being together, and in doing so, they are celebrating life. In this day n age, I'd much rather have families and friends keep in touch b/c of a "ludicrous" crap, than for ties to fall a part. The structure of tradition is important to me, and i believe, to our society.

and if you read my 1st post in this thread, I feel the same as you, just not as... hardcore. so don't eat me.
That is exactly my issue with the rabbit. The way things started out have been lost, and a cheap alternative is in its place. So when then, would anyone promote a jolly man who is nothing of his origination? In other words, why mask truth with a lie? It just does not make sense. Barb, cmon, I ain't gonna bitecha.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 07:44 AM   #43
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sglide View Post
thats never been proven. and no the bible is not proof
Bro, lets not go there. There are LOADS of extra-biblical proof that Jesus and his crew walked the Earth and did some mad jazz. Back to on topic.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 07:45 AM   #44
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
I have no problem with any of it. The early Christian Churches were kinda asking for trouble like this when they tried to replace the pagan celebrations of the winter solstice and spring equonox with Christmas and Easter.

I bet there was a time when pagans complained about everything suddenly being about Jesus rather than the position of the earth and the sun.
I agree, it was kinda bold to take over someone else's holiday. But to me, it does not matter the exact date that Christmas, for example, is celebrated. I could care less if it were in September. But the point to me is not WHEN we celebrate, but WHAT we celebrate.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 07:47 AM   #45
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post
Here's the way I see it: If Kerwin told my boy there was no easter bunny, I'd gut his preachy ass. My defense: He told me to find jesus. Also said Jesus was in his heart. So I was opening him up to take a look-see.
You assume that what I believe I would want to push on you. That is not the case. I am saying that it does not make sense why anyone would mask truth with a lie. Beyond that, I am saying that I am choosing not to lie to my kids. I am not after your kid you hag!
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 07:49 AM   #46
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiss my crack scotty!! View Post
This is just my opinion, but the problem with a child truly understanding the meaning of the story of christ, is that a young child has no concept of the sacrifice that christ made.
I think there are plenty of ways to convey the concept without getting into the specifics while the child is really young. My daughter barely knows her name, so I am not going to even go there. But Jesus would be a good first word, lol.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 07:51 AM   #47
steveo
In the band!
 
Join Date: 03-30-07
Location: montana/wyoming
Posts: 20,293
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

you may be able to convey the concept, but it takes years of life experience to TRULY understand sacrifice. i am 22 and i am still learning what sacrifice means every day.
steveo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 07:52 AM   #48
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Queen View Post
This is one of those comments made by "Righteous Young New Parents"
it goes along with "my kid will never have sugar/twinkies/koolaid" or "not MY kid".

Some of the most fun memories we have would fall under your description of lies. Like when I planted an indian arrowhead in the sand for my daughter to find, or when the leprechauns visited at night and left shamrock confetti in her bed, or the "gasp" toothfairy.

In celebrating the holiday it is YOUR job as a parent to interject your religious beliefs. My kids learned to love the bunny and holiday and later to love the story of the resurrection. They can co-exist....can't we all just get along? Wouldn't that be the "Christian" thing to do?
This is one of those comments made by a former righteous young parent who gave up and joined the masses.

Hey, whatever floats your boat, if you want to go with the whole rabbit santa stuff, go for it. But I just can't lie. To me, lying is one of the worst things anyone could ever do.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 07:54 AM   #49
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffy View Post
Because You as a christian take heathens into
help them see the light.

and bring joy for all man kind as he would want you to do. Not take out your aggreshions on children and any enjoyment they may get. Do you punish you children for play pretending also? Do you let them have toys? watch cartoons?
I sure am glad your not my dad!!

We sure do not see the same on this point. So I agree to dis-agree with you on this.

Please... I am not being aggressive toward children. If there is any agression on my statements, its the people who tell these stories to their kids, not the kids. But like I said before, if thats what you or anyone else wants to do, go for it. I am just trying to understand the reason behind it. The only reason I can see at all is tradition. Traditions are great, but they have to be married to purpose.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 07:57 AM   #50
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandman View Post
Put all the options on the table for the child to see , you Dave force your thoughts which to me is a way to mask the truth .
Marv, you don't know what you are talking about. I have already decided that with my kids, I am going to teach them the ways of Christ, do my best to be a good Dad, and let them choose what they believe. I am not going to punish them if they say they do not believe, but I will pray for them and do my best to lead by example. I will not force. Everyone gets up in arms when someone says a strong statement. So speaking with strength makes someone both a child aggressor and a forceful person. Got it.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 07:58 AM   #51
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,683
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiss my crack scotty!! View Post
you may be able to convey the concept, but it takes years of life experience to TRULY understand sacrifice. i am 22 and i am still learning what sacrifice means every day.
I agree. But I think there is nothing wrong with a young child having an elementary understanding. But as an adult, watching a movie like The Passion really puts things into perspective. I usually watch that movie once a year on good Friday.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 08:14 AM   #52
Miffy
Senior Member
 
Miffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: My home
Posts: 5,826
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to Miffy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKerwin View Post
I agree. But I think there is nothing wrong with a young child having an elementary understanding. But as an adult, watching a movie like The Passion really puts things into perspective. I usually watch that movie once a year on good Friday.
Ok Dave.. for your childrens sake I am going to try to show you why childhood can be a great joy if you are allowed to belive in Santa, Easter Bunny etc..

I have half Brother and Sister that were raised as you speak to know the truth. Well they ended up resenting there parents and felt cheated out of there childhood because there parents did not let them belive as all the other children did. They did not have childhood friendships when they told the other children that they did not belive and Santa and the Easter Bunny did not visit them. In there teens they turned away from the Church and there parents.

Just a heads up for you, and if you choose to keep your way of thinking in 15 years and this happens with your children just recall how all of us tried to help you see the light of humanity and the right of free thinking.

I will Pray for you and your children..
Miffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 09:14 AM   #53
Mongo
.
 
Mongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-25-06
Location: Fenton
Posts: 8,042
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Personally, I am pretty much right in line with Sglide and Jesus . However, who cares? Thats the beauty of being american. We can believe whatever we want. If all of this is just people sharing opinions, fine. But some seem to take it way to seriously. Pretty soon we are going to end up with a GL4x4 holy war.:tonka:
Mongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 09:16 AM   #54
DeltaCavXJ
BCT made me hate Oreos!
 
Join Date: 05-28-06
Location: .
Posts: 466
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

ill be a mercenarie whoever pays the most gets me and most of the michigan militia
DeltaCavXJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 09:16 AM   #55
Mongo
.
 
Mongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-25-06
Location: Fenton
Posts: 8,042
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Oh and to answer the origanal question that began this post, I like teh bunny.
Mongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 09:17 AM   #56
steveo
In the band!
 
Join Date: 03-30-07
Location: montana/wyoming
Posts: 20,293
iTrader: (6)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

i only like the chocolate ones. the white chocolate sucks.
steveo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 09:24 AM   #57
deuce228
Redneck Poser
 
deuce228's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-07-05
Location: West Branch, MI
Posts: 7,971
iTrader: (8)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKerwin View Post
all fixed
Dave. In your view. I am not going to get in a battle here, but the thing that irritates me enough is that some christians so blindly believe that they refuse to accept that perhaps thier views are actually the wrong. And no, im not talking the easter bunny as much as the whole Idol thing in general. Who has the right to say that your god is or isn't the idol here?
deuce228 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 09:28 AM   #58
MiniJ
Senior Member
 
MiniJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-17-06
Location: Lansing, MI
Posts: 135
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

"Religion" should be about being a good person and living a happy and fulfilling life. Whether you are Buddhist, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Baptist, or even Atheist, it shouldn't make a difference, as long as you live your life to be the best person you can be.

All "religions" have their beliefs and ideas, and there's nothing wrong with that. But, it should be about striving to do what is right, and striving to help others.

Humans spend too much time fighting over religion-and look where it has gotten us. Almost every war on earth has been about one group trying to impose their "religion" on someone else. What is the point? It just results in more and more bloodshed. We need to focus our efforts instead on living a positive and fun life and being a great friend to someone.

That means going out of your way to do something nice for someone...such as giving them a gift at Christmas time for example.

Giving gifts, while I agree it has gotten out of hand, incorporates many different religious traditions actually...from pagan-earth worship, to German St. Nick, to the gifts from the Magi to Christ. It may seem like it's not representative of Jesus' birth...but in fact it is, so there's no reason to forbid a child from partaking in this experience. (if I had more time and space, I'd give you a historical background on St. Nick and his various forms around the world, it's very interesting and would change your perspective on our Santa)

What would be acceptable, is to only allow your child to receive 1 gift from Santa...something extra special. This teaches them that it's ok to be rewarded for being a good child and you can work in the part about Jesus receiving gifts at his birth if you want to throw in your religious beliefs, but it doesn't provide for the greediness and commercialism that has taken over.

I grew up Christian, went to sunday school and church every Sunday, but as I've gotten older, I'm questioning "religion" in general. Too many conflicting stories, historical discoveries, coverups, and even discrepancies within the Bible itself.

I also happen to have a significant other whose family was raised Jewish, and after being versed in the ways of their customs and beliefs and traditions, you begin to see that what happened in years past is totally open to interpretation and is just one person's account of a story versus another's.

I refuse to interpret the Bible the way I want to just to make it fit my beliefs and try and impose them on others. I am choosing to lead a good life, and that means incorporating various aspects of the world's history into leading that life. It's important to recognize that our ancestors came from many walks of life and we should celebrate it all, not fight over it.
MiniJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 09:32 AM   #59
Roadhouse
DrivewayJeeper
 
Roadhouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-05-05
Location: Sanford
Posts: 10,956
iTrader: (5)
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKerwin View Post
Easter Bunny needs to die, why lie to our children and make up a fairy tale about something that has NOTHING to do with the reason we celebrate? We celebrate because Jesus did not stay in the grave, he conquered death, and thereby conquered our sins. He rose from the dead, so we too will rise. Why cloud that with some random bunny? It is wrong IMO. I for one, and not gonna lie to my kid about jolly santa and fat rabbit.
I don't really see who its lieing to them. You need to teach them what Easter and Christmas is all about if you want them to know its about Christ. My kids know the meaning of Christmas and Easter as how it pertains to Christ...but they also know that Santa and the Bunny aren't the true meaning of the holiday.
Roadhouse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old April 4th, 2007, 09:36 AM   #60
DeltaCavXJ
BCT made me hate Oreos!
 
Join Date: 05-28-06
Location: .
Posts: 466
iTrader: (0)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

your taking this bunny thing way too far. sure it could be bad if parents told kids thats all that there is to easter and somehow maybe like 3 generations from now people would start worshiping a giant chocolate bunny or something, but no one teaches that the bunny is all important, but if it happens then i will take your side and say you are right, but your veiw is totally scewed.
DeltaCavXJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:23 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Copyright 2005 - 2012 Cracker Enterprises - Powered by Linux
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=
Page generated in 0.42016 seconds with 51 queries