Religous debate on post by 87YJ - Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest

Go Back   Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat
GL4x4 Live! GL4x4 Casino

Politics, Government, or Religion Chat Bring your flamesuit!

greatlakes4x4.com is the premier Great Lakes 4x4 Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Search
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old March 26th, 2007, 11:19 AM   #1
biohazardbill
The Biohazards
 
biohazardbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-02-06
Location: Forsyth, Ga
Posts: 4,147
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default Religous debate on post by 87YJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by 87'YJ View Post
If God is real, and he created everything, then it means he has power over everything! So if you really believe this is a "spirit or demon" attacking you, then pray that God would deliver you from it.
This was posted in another thread and found it interesting, however I do not agree.

I believe God is real however I do not believe he has the power over everything. He granted us free will which gives us the ability to do whatever we choose. If He truly controlled eveything then evil would not exist. Else this life we live would just be a test, kinda like Purgatory.

Comments?
biohazardbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old March 26th, 2007, 11:48 AM   #2
wakebabe
Mrs. Bones
 
Join Date: 11-15-05
Location: Dearborn Heights
Posts: 4,154
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84chevy View Post
I thought this was a wheeling board
:tonka: had to
wakebabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 11:50 AM   #3
biohazardbill
The Biohazards
 
biohazardbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-02-06
Location: Forsyth, Ga
Posts: 4,147
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wakebabe View Post
:tonka: had to
This is in the religous section and since God has created the environment in which we wheel it is wheeling related.
biohazardbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 11:52 AM   #4
Chiefwoohaw
Pokerob is my B*tch!
 
Chiefwoohaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-06-05
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 11,507
iTrader: (7)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by biohazardbill View Post
This is in the religous section and since God has created the environment in which we wheel it is wheeling related.
Many people get confused about that when the actually click the link to the Political, Governmental and Religious section. Some one should do a study on why that happens.
Chiefwoohaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 12:12 PM   #5
wakebabe
Mrs. Bones
 
Join Date: 11-15-05
Location: Dearborn Heights
Posts: 4,154
iTrader: (3)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by biohazardbill View Post
This is in the religous section and since God has created the environment in which we wheel it is wheeling related.
Quote:
At Bible Camp, we like, made this flow chart that said like, since God made man, and man made the Transformers, then the Transformers are a gift from God. ...
:tonka: OK I am done sorry to hi-jak
wakebabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 01:43 PM   #6
SS
Blinded By The Light
 
SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-12-05
Location: Mogadishu, Somalia
Posts: 11,919
iTrader: (14)
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by biohazardbill View Post
This was posted in another thread and found it interesting, however I do not agree.

I believe God is real however I do not believe he has the power over everything. He granted us free will which gives us the ability to do whatever we choose. If He truly controlled eveything then evil would not exist. Else this life we live would just be a test, kinda like Purgatory.

Comments?
I agree 100% with that. He gave us free will and judges us by how we live with the responsibility.

On a side note,

I also believe that everyone has to find their own way to God. It's perfectly fine to not believe in something, I did at one point. I was pushed away by the Catholic church. I'm not slamming Catholics here at all but it was the constant misinformation, refusal to teach actual lessons from the Bible and the literal demand for money that convinced me that the Catholic church has been long corrupted. I found a better Church and love it. I don't think Church should be all about brimstone and fire. You should enjoy going and have a good time while you're there and I do. Do I sit and try and guilt/force people to go to my church and feel the same way I do? Not at all. I'll suggest it to someone once if I feel they are looking for somewhere to go and if they say it isn't for them then I leave it alone.

I just wish more people would do that. NO ONE likes having something crammed down their throats.
__________________
-Jeremy

Watch yourself. I'll light you up.
SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 01:56 PM   #7
biohazardbill
The Biohazards
 
biohazardbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-02-06
Location: Forsyth, Ga
Posts: 4,147
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS View Post
NO ONE likes having something crammed down their throats.
Jenna Jameson does.....
biohazardbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 01:56 PM   #8
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,536
iTrader: (40)
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default

I'm sick of arguing this topic. I'll just put in a couple quotes summarizing my thoughts. If you have a question about this statement, let me know and I will elaborate:

The good, say the mystics of spirit, is God, a being whose only definition is that he is beyond man's power to conceive- a definition that invalidates man's consciousness and nullifies his concepts of existence...Man's mind, say the mystics of spirit, must be subordinated to the will of God... Man's standard of value, say the mystics of spirit, is the pleasure of God, whose standards are beyond man's power of comprehension and must be accepted on faith....The purpose of man's life...is to become an abject zombie who serves a purpose he does not know, for reasons he is not to question.

The Doctrine of Original Sin declares that man ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge - he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evil - he became a moral being/ He was sentenced to earn his bread by his labor - he became a productive being. He was sentenced to experience desire - he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which the preachers damn him are reason, morality, creativeness joy - all the cardinal values of his existence.
- For the New Intellectual
__________________
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 01:59 PM   #9
biohazardbill
The Biohazards
 
biohazardbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-02-06
Location: Forsyth, Ga
Posts: 4,147
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
I'm sick of arguing this topic. I'll just put in a couple quotes summarizing my thoughts. If you have a question about this statement, let me know and I will elaborate:

The good, say the mystics of spirit, is God, a being whose only definition is that he is beyond man's power to conceive- a definition that invalidates man's consciousness and nullifies his concepts of existence...Man's mind, say the mystics of spirit, must be subordinated to the will of God... Man's standard of value, say the mystics of spirit, is the pleasure of God, whose standards are beyond man's power of comprehension and must be accepted on faith....The purpose of man's life...is to become an abject zombie who serves a purpose he does not know, for reasons he is not to question.

The Doctrine of Original Sin declares that man ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge - he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evil - he became a moral being/ He was sentenced to earn his bread by his labor - he became a productive being. He was sentenced to experience desire - he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which the preachers damn him are reason, morality, creativeness joy - all the cardinal values of his existence.
- For the New Intellectual
Free will gave him the choice to eat the apple.
biohazardbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 02:05 PM   #10
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,536
iTrader: (40)
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by biohazardbill View Post
Free will gave him the choice to eat the apple.
If disobeying God by eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil was an "evil" act worthy of punishment, how did Adam know it was evil to do it?

And how could he have committed an evil act prior to knowing what evil was? If he had no knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the apple, then how could they have disobeyed god in the first place? There were no rules, and if there are no rules, everything is free will.
__________________
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 02:08 PM   #11
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,536
iTrader: (40)
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default

we could argue for 13 hours straight. I'm basing my believes upon fact, and you are basing your thoughts on a fantasy world.

Just remember, Thinking men cannot be ruled.
__________________
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 02:20 PM   #12
biohazardbill
The Biohazards
 
biohazardbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-02-06
Location: Forsyth, Ga
Posts: 4,147
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

Because Eve was evil... we all think women are good until we bite their apple lol...
biohazardbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 02:21 PM   #13
biohazardbill
The Biohazards
 
biohazardbill's Avatar
 
Join Date: 03-02-06
Location: Forsyth, Ga
Posts: 4,147
iTrader: (10)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Default

One thing to point out too...

anytime you argue a point, you quote other people... do you ever think on your own?
biohazardbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 02:23 PM   #14
SS
Blinded By The Light
 
SS's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-12-05
Location: Mogadishu, Somalia
Posts: 11,919
iTrader: (14)
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
we could argue for 13 hours straight. I'm basing my believes upon fact, and you are basing your thoughts on a fantasy world.

Just remember, Thinking men cannot be ruled.
Is that why you follow the laws of our Government?
__________________
-Jeremy

Watch yourself. I'll light you up.
SS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 02:24 PM   #15
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,536
iTrader: (40)
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by biohazardbill View Post
One thing to point out too...

anytime you argue a point, you quote other people... do you ever think on your own?
x2 lol
__________________
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 02:25 PM   #16
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,689
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

you religious extremists are weird, crutch for the weak if you ask me. Oh, and stop shoving religion down my throat.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 02:28 PM   #17
clarkstoncracker
lol
 
clarkstoncracker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-05
Location: OC - MI
Posts: 42,536
iTrader: (40)
Mentioned: 116 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to clarkstoncracker
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKerwin View Post
you religious extremists are weird, crutch for the weak if you ask me. Oh, and stop shoving religion down my throat.
I like to talk about religion. Its interesting to see the great points people make without the scientific method or facts to back them up.

If I can not touch, see, or hear it, then its not there.


And I'll take 1 lesson in but secks. :tonka:
__________________
clarkstoncracker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 02:32 PM   #18
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,689
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
If disobeying God by eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil was an "evil" act worthy of punishment, how did Adam know it was evil to do it?

And how could he have committed an evil act prior to knowing what evil was? If he had no knowledge of good and evil prior to eating the apple, then how could they have disobeyed god in the first place? There were no rules, and if there are no rules, everything is free will.
Ok, according to the scriptures, God walked the Garden with Adam and Eve, and God instructed Adam not to eat of the tree. That knowledge was imparted to Eve, and they BOTH disobeyed it, although Eve took the fruit first. Adam was WITH her, and he stayed both silent and still, when he should have been both speaking and moving. Eve knew she was not supposed to do it, Adam did not stop her. Whether or not that is a believable story, I have answered your question.

There was one rule in the garden, and it was not to eat of that tree. They understood sin after eating the fruit because they were naked and wanted to clothe themselves. In the garden, it was not so much a matter of free will as it was no sin. We are still free today, but born into sin, instead of born without.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 02:37 PM   #19
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,689
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by biohazardbill View Post
This was posted in another thread and found it interesting, however I do not agree.

I believe God is real however I do not believe he has the power over everything. He granted us free will which gives us the ability to do whatever we choose. If He truly controlled eveything then evil would not exist. Else this life we live would just be a test, kinda like Purgatory.

Comments?
How would God NOT have the power over everything? What.. because bad things happen to good people, that means God has no power? If I were you, I would agrue against God's character, not his power. Believe me, his power is not an issue.

Just read the end time prophesies, God is gonna kick some serious devil hiney, but in due time.
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 26th, 2007, 02:37 PM   #20
Dave Kerwin
web wheeling, hard.
 
Dave Kerwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-18-05
Location: SE MI
Posts: 6,689
iTrader: (9)
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clarkstoncracker View Post
I like to talk about religion.
me too :tonka:
Dave Kerwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Great Lakes 4x4. The largest offroad forum in the Midwest > General 4x4 Stuff > Politics, Government, or Religion Chat

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:42 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright 2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Page generated in 0.34663 seconds with 80 queries