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Old March 25th, 2007, 11:28 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Nick In Cali View Post
I'm all for capitalism and what-not. I think the problem is the underlying message here. Which seems to be that I'm supposed to bend to thier religious beliefs. Not gonna happen.
I don't see it that way. They aren't trying to make us not drink...they just don't want it on them if you do.

Same as if some woman asked me to drive her to an abortion clinic. Wouldn't happen.
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Old March 26th, 2007, 08:38 AM   #22
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Umm....if they don't want to transport alcohol, that is their right. Remember, we have rights here in da U.S. of A.
If you don't agree with the way they run their company, then don't use it.
I would agree with you if this was their personal time. But transporting a legal product isnt for them to decide.

They might be leasing the car but arent they under a company. Kinda like the muslims that work for target th at wont ring up people buying pork. The company sells it you need to ring it up. How can the parent cab company let this happen?
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Old March 26th, 2007, 08:47 AM   #23
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Same as if some woman asked me to drive her to an abortion clinic. Wouldn't happen.
Would you drive her if you were a cabbie in Michigan? If not, you may not have a job for long. I agree that we have rights in our business lives, like refusing certain work, or "no shoes, no shirt etc., but when you deal with the public, you always have to deal with unpleasantness at some time. You choose your occupation accordingly.

We all have rights to our "private" belief system. In our public businesses we have a right not to deal with idiots, but we have to be careful how we classify any person.

How do they know alcohol is being transported?
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Old March 26th, 2007, 09:02 AM   #24
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I will tell them at work that cleaning up after myself is against my religion. I can see how long I have a job after that.

Like said about the cabbies, if you don't know how to do your job right, quit. Its not like the passenger is asking you to drive a getaway car after a bank robbery. Its bad enough for the passengers that they don't use deodorant a good portion of the time and aren't the most pleasant-smelling individuals.

I guess I don't understand why they are here IF its religious freedom they are seeking. It would be much more acceptable in the Middle East. Or Dearborn.

What angers me is it seems like all we do is keep taking this BS. At what point will we have had enough? I think it will be too late then. I really don't think these problems are going to just go away.
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Old March 26th, 2007, 12:14 PM   #25
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My issue is this:

In the U.S. we have a concept called "separation of church and state".

This means that no state, county, or local body can pass or enact any laws, ordnances, rules, or regulations, that enforce Muslim Sharia law.

If you don't want to transport alcohol, don't drive a cab. But more to the point, what if cab drivers started openly declaring they wouldn't pick up blacks? Or Muslims? How well would that play? Conceptually, declaring that you won't pick up fares who are legally transorting alcohol is no different than that. THAT'S the point they're missing.
but do we really? when you can't go and pick up a six pack at 11:30 AM on Sunday?
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Old March 26th, 2007, 01:04 PM   #26
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but do we really? when you can't go and pick up a six pack at 11:30 AM on Sunday?
Its possession/transportation what he means I would think. Not a purchasing one. I guess they could argue the same thing about maybe someone having a perscription for say vicodin or some other drug that you can't just go buy. It would be illegal for the driver to possess it but not the passenger since its their drug. It is more than likely nott their cab. Its the cab company's. It becomes a legal possession issue at that point.
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Old March 26th, 2007, 01:08 PM   #27
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Its possession/transportation what he means I would think. Not a purchasing one. I guess they could argue the same thing about maybe someone having a perscription for say vicodin or some other drug that you can't just go buy. It would be illegal for the driver to possess it but not the passenger since its their drug. It is more than likely nott their cab. Its the cab company's. It becomes a legal possession issue at that point.
i'm referring to the part of "separation of church and state"
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Old March 26th, 2007, 01:16 PM   #28
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So hide the Booze in your luggage and don't acknoledge it. When you pull your stuff from the trunk, act like your cash is in your bag. Open it up and offer a him a shot. Then find your cash in back pocket.
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Old March 26th, 2007, 01:22 PM   #29
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We should not be adopting any of their laws or beliefs. This is supposed to be "The Melting Pot". They are welcome to stay but they need to melt in with society and learnd to adapt to the American ways or GET THE fukc OUT.
Holy contradiction, can your neck get anymore red?
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Old March 26th, 2007, 01:37 PM   #30
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Holy contradiction, can your neck get anymore red?
There was a very interesting thread about a former politician from CO. He had an address and it stated to a degree what he is saying. When people would come to America, they would keep some of their ways/traditions but still be able to interact. I know my great-grandfather from Sweden didn't make a big deal about things that he didn't like and he was a preacher.
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Old March 26th, 2007, 01:59 PM   #31
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I agree with you, people should keep some degree of their heritage when they move to a new country. I just think its funny that using the term melting pot and then saying someone should cast away their rituals, heritage, identity to conform to this predetermined one sounds like a good idea.

A melting pot is just that, a melting pot. in a melting pot you can't melt tin and copper and get pure copper back out, you get brass. So what makes people think that with an influx of new people you can succesfully keep yourself segregated from them and continue on with your happy little life. you can't, deal with it.

Up until now the somalis and the other Arabs have lived in relative harmony with the rest of the twin cities. While I was out there for my internship, I felt more safe being a white kid walking through a somali neighborhood than I did walking through a black one, and yet they're considered terrorists religion.

I'm not sympathizer of theirs to the point that I condone what they are doing in all aspects, but like muddypaws said everyone has their limits. If they don't want to deal with alcohol or pork products, then maybe someone should step up who will. Wait, I forgot, that would be beneath most white people to do trivial labor.

In the end, I think Jesus said it best "I am an engineer and I hate you all", as a soon to be engineer I agree with him wholeheartedly. I hate you all.
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Old March 26th, 2007, 02:08 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Rattler View Post
There was a very interesting thread about a former politician from CO. He had an address and it stated to a degree what he is saying. When people would come to America, they would keep some of their ways/traditions but still be able to interact. I know my great-grandfather from Sweden didn't make a big deal about things that he didn't like and he was a preacher.
As follows

We know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that
context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration overpopulation conference in Washington , DC ,
filled to capacity by many of America 's finest minds and leaders.
A brilliant college professor by the name of Victor Hansen Davis
talked about his latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration -
both legal and illegal was destroying the entire state of California .
He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges
of The American Dream. Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America . The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States . He said, "If you believe that America is too smug,
too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America . It is not
that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time.
Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall
and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'" "Here is how they do it," Lamm said: "First, to destroy America ,
turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country." History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. The historical scholar, Seymour Lipset, put it this way: "The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy." Canada , Belgium , Malaysia , and Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic
rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans.".
Lamm went on: Second, to destroy America , "Invent 'multiculturalism' and
encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. Make it an article
of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. Make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due solely to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds. Third, "We could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: "The
apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might
have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the
dominance that once dictated ethnocentricity and what it meant to be an
American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together. "Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own
language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the
salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various
cultural subgroups living in America enforcing their differences rather than
as Americans, emphasizing their similarities." "Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school." "My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big
foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think that their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population." "My sixth plan for America 's downfall would include dual
citizenship, and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over
unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people
worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when
they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society
is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it
takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks
believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a
common Language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All
Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy, Persia , threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to
overcome two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions
that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell. "E. Pluribus Unum"
--From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on
the 'pluribus' instead of the 'Unum,' we will balkanize America as
surely as Kosovo."
"Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits; make it taboo
to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a
word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion
and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt
discussion and debate. Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country,
having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the
doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to
enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because
immigration has been good for America , it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them."
In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow.
Profound silence followed. Finally he said, "Lastly, I would censor Victor
Hanson Davis 's book "Mexifornia." His book is dangerous. It exposes the
plan to destroy America . If you feel America . deserves to be destroyed,
don't read that book."
There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous
cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in
that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding
methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today.
Discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the
foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness.
Even barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.' American jobs are vanishing into the Third
World as corporations create a Third World in America - take note of
California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens
and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In
that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth
building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery," and "Ignorance is strength."
Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the
conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy
is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this
immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California
wildfire and destroy everything in its path especially The American
Dream.
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Old March 26th, 2007, 02:11 PM   #33
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Further More

http://www.greatlakes4x4.com/showthread.php?t=33903
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Old March 26th, 2007, 02:38 PM   #34
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Those two patches on my riding vest pretty much sum up my feelings.
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Old March 26th, 2007, 04:41 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Throwin Mudd View Post
I would agree with you if this was their personal time. But transporting a legal product isnt for them to decide.

They might be leasing the car but arent they under a company. Kinda like the muslims that work for target th at wont ring up people buying pork. The company sells it you need to ring it up. How can the parent cab company let this happen?
Those are the actual issues here. It seems that the parent company says it ok. Maybe it's muslem owned...dunno. If the company had an issue with it, then they would need to deal with it.

Companies make choices like this all the time. They choose to not hire smokers, they choose to not service some areas, they choose to not service some makes of vehicles, they choose to not deal with other companies based on that companies other holdings.

If a cab company doesn't want to transport alcohol, then it doesn't have to. They don't even have to say it's because of religion. They could say "we don't transport nutter butter bars" and you can't make them do it.

I build high dollar performance engines in my spare time and in the summer. I only build U.S. v6's v8's and v12's. I don't do Jap 4 cylinders...and you can't make me do it.

It's my company and as long as I am not in violation of the civil liberties act or the disability act then I can choose who or what I want to work with.
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Old March 26th, 2007, 04:58 PM   #36
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How about the issue with the 6 immams that are now sueing the airline AND the passengers that complained abou them?
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Old March 26th, 2007, 06:55 PM   #37
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How about the issue with the 6 immams that are now sueing the airline AND the passengers that complained abou them?
Simple sensationalism. They did it to grab headlines and get the reaction they did. It has nothing to do with the first part and I don't know why it's in the same article except to make the article more news worthy.

I find this funny...

"requested seat belt extenders with heavy buckles that could be used as weapons"

Says who? Did they say to the attendant "can we please have an extender with a heavy buckle so we may use it as a weapon?"
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Old March 26th, 2007, 08:43 PM   #38
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If we imposed our beliefs (or even practiced them) in their homeland wouldn't they behead us??

I had to go to Mayo Clinic for a diagnosis last may and my mom saw the first full berka wearing woman dutifully walking behind her husband....I almost had to tackle my mom...she wanted to "free" the woman
i hope you explained to your mom that if she did that it wouldnt be freeing the woman but instead she would be taking away her freedom by not alowwing her to practice her religon.
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Old March 26th, 2007, 08:53 PM   #39
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Umm....if they don't want to transport alcohol, that is their right. Remember, we have rights here in da U.S. of A.

I, working on side jobs in my garage, also have the right to refuse work I don't want to do. And I regularly refuse some jobs.

If you don't agree with the way they run their company, then don't use it.
omfg you are 100 per. rite.
when i first read this art. i had a reactionary opinion cuz i dont like any organized religon of any kind.
but my personal dislike for all religon aside what you have said here is true.

i have refused to do welding jobs for alot less than firmly held beleifs/morality
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Old March 26th, 2007, 08:59 PM   #40
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[IMG]



Those two patches on my riding vest pretty much sum up my feelings.
its a good thing the founding fathers wernt this short sighted.
if they did we would all be speacking french or native am.
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