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Old February 26th, 2007, 08:20 PM   #21
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There are ten times more reason to believe that there is NO tomb or body than there is to beleive that a random tomb in the middle east may belong to Jesus.

there are TONS of extra-biblical historical documents that attest to the uproar from the life and death of Christ, even reports of everyone saying not only that he resurrected from the dead, but also that he ascended into heaven and never died the second time. now whether or not all those events transpired as they were written is an entirely different discussion. but historically and logically, the story of Jesus holds water. this tomb story has ZERO historical or logical basis.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 09:42 PM   #22
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Say what you may, I do not know the truth no more then any other person on this earth.

But I can tell you one thing.. When a person Passes there energy goes someplace. I have felt it 3 times. Call me Crazy if you want I do not care. Now if there was a Christ on this earth I would say yes. If all the storys they tell are true??? I am sure they get changed over time. Man has taken what they belive to be true and put it on paper can it be wrong sure. Do I care. No because I go by what I feel in my heart and know to be true from my own life. Do I push this on others. Nope. I do not have the answers nore will anyone else.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 10:57 AM   #23
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Say what you may, I do not know the truth no more then any other person on this earth.

But I can tell you one thing.. When a person Passes there energy goes someplace. I have felt it 3 times. Call me Crazy if you want I do not care. Now if there was a Christ on this earth I would say yes. If all the storys they tell are true??? I am sure they get changed over time. Man has taken what they belive to be true and put it on paper can it be wrong sure. Do I care. No because I go by what I feel in my heart and know to be true from my own life. Do I push this on others. Nope. I do not have the answers nore will anyone else.
Thanks for bringing some real logic to the table. BTW I don't think you're crazy.

Knowing is seeing first hand. Since none of you were there when Jesus accended into heaven then you don't KNOW that it happened or didn't happen.

You may believe that it happened but KNOWING and BELIEVING aren't the same. That's logic.

I really like to see stories that shake religion's foundation, even if they aren't true. It really shows you how blindly some follow the church. What if Jesus did have a son? What if his body does exist? What does it prove, that the bible isn't entirely factual? Big revelation there.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 12:04 PM   #24
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I think people believe what they from their own experiences have learned to believe. Myself for example, I grew up in a very strict southern Baptist family. I was very religious and faithful until I was around 22, and then I started to explore other religions, and other views of the Christian religion. I was never agnostic or atheist but I definitely questioned the faith that I grew up with. I went through this "self discovery of sorts" for about six years. One of the major things that turned me back around was being with my grandma when she died. As she was laying on her deathbed knowing that within an hour she would pass away, she was very peaceful. I asked her if she was scared and she answered without hesitation that she wasn't and that she was going to a happier place even though she would miss us all.
Additionally almost two years ago I got very sick and was told that there was a 99% chance that I would need a heart transplant. At that same time my marriage was ending. I had a lot of troubles in my life. I prayed my heart out and I recovered fully, and I ended up married to a man who was perfect for me. I couldn't be happier. Every night I thank god for my blessings and say prayers for the less fortunate. So, no movie with some half put together data is going to influence me one way or another.

I don't like the idea that someone would call someone else's beliefs illogical. I personally think it's illogical to be a democrat, but I dont go around saying that to people. A person has the right to believe what they want. Here is an example, I believe that my dog loves me. Has he ever told me he loves me? No, so I have faith that he loves me. I see things in his actions that lead me to believe he does love me, but I have no proof. Am I illogical for thinking that my dog loves me?
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Old February 27th, 2007, 12:33 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post
What if Jesus did have a son? What if his body does exist?
Its fine to ask the question. But if you make the claim that such a thing is discovered, then there should be some backing evidence. And in the absence of evidence, such a claim should be flushed down the toilet with the rest of the crap. Such is the case with this claim of Jesus having a tomb and family.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 12:47 PM   #26
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Whats interesting is that in class this morning we were talking about this. The biggest curve ball FOR ME is the claim that they have DNA evidence. Now to know that they have Jesus' DNA is a little interesting. To know it is his DNA would mean that they would need to link it to him from when he was alive. A long shot to say the least. When listening to the directors interview on CNN last night he was not able to defend this claim either way. He also mentioned that this was linked to The Da Vinci Code. TO me this stretches it even farther from the truth.

Someone said it once, but this is another claim for some people to make a lot of money from people who believe everything they read on the intraweb
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Old February 27th, 2007, 12:49 PM   #27
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Dave,

Have you even read the paper, there were actually 10 Burial ossuaries in the tomb, bearing the names in ancient Hebrew on 5, and Greek on a 6th

The ancient Hebrew names listed essentially once translated
Jesus son of Joseph
Joseph
Mary
Matthew


In Greek was:
Mary Magdalene

Even in those times with those names being common, the stats and math put the odds of them being together in a family tomb at 1:1,000,000

I am not saying it is true as I am very much on guard of anything religious anymore but it would seriously have to be looked at.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 12:58 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by shmler View Post
1. To know it is his DNA would mean that they would need to link it to him from when he was alive. A long shot to say the least.

2. He also mentioned that this was linked to The Da Vinci Code. Someone said it once, but this is another claim for some people to make a lot of money
1. Right. It's idiotic. They have no comparison, so its useless data.

2. Exactly, this is a major play off of an already BOOMING money maker.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 01:00 PM   #29
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Pure sensationalism. I have followed middle east archeology very closely for years and one of the most prominent magazines is the Biblical Archaeology Review. The editors are considered by the industry as the worlds leading biblical archeologists (most aren't christian by the way). They dismissed this as completely false years ago.
They said either that the boxs had been made as early as the crusdaes or even later than that.

It makes for good T.V. though!

If you read in depth on it, the ossuaries that they found don't match anything of the time. This is old news!!! These were suposedly "discovered" in the 80's and that is when they were immediately proven (by several outside sources such as proffesors, archeologists, and scientists) as false.

Last edited by 87'YJ; February 27th, 2007 at 01:06 PM.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 01:05 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by jeepfreak81 View Post
Dave,

Have you even read the paper, there were actually 10 Burial ossuaries in the tomb, bearing the names in ancient Hebrew on 5, and Greek on a 6th

The ancient Hebrew names listed essentially once translated
Jesus son of Joseph
Joseph
Mary
Matthew


In Greek was:
Mary Magdalene

Even in those times with those names being common, the stats and math put the odds of them being together in a family tomb at 1:1,000,000

I am not saying it is true as I am very much on guard of anything religious anymore but it would seriously have to be looked at.
Exactly, almost too good to be true. Turns out its completely false. This is old news guys!

This is like me telling you that Milli Vanilli have the best voices out there. Old News!

Last edited by 87'YJ; February 27th, 2007 at 01:17 PM.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 01:37 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by jeepfreak81 View Post
Dave,

Have you even read the paper, there were actually 10 Burial ossuaries in the tomb, bearing the names in ancient Hebrew on 5, and Greek on a 6th

The ancient Hebrew names listed essentially once translated
Jesus son of Joseph
Joseph
Mary
Matthew


In Greek was:
Mary Magdalene

Even in those times with those names being common, the stats and math put the odds of them being together in a family tomb at 1:1,000,000

I am not saying it is true as I am very much on guard of anything religious anymore but it would seriously have to be looked at.

Admittedly, names like that do make one think! But in that mathematical estimation, were the other 4 people calculated in that?, because it said there were 10 remains. Also, from what you have read, what do they estimate the dates being of the burial?

It does bother me that this tomb was discovered in 1980, and nothing no real news moved the world until 27 years later? Just after the Davinci Code fiction story.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 01:57 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by DaveKerwin View Post
Its fine to ask the question. But if you make the claim that such a thing is discovered, then there should be some backing evidence. And in the absence of evidence, such a claim should be flushed down the toilet with the rest of the crap. Such is the case with this claim of Jesus having a tomb and family.

Agreed! Evidence is essential to proving anything. The more extraordinary the claim the stronger the evidence should be. Unfortunately that same logic can also be used against religion.

I'll remain skeptical until I see strong evidence based on facts that have withstood peer review.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 02:50 PM   #33
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One small correction just to make sure we have the write one.

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Originally Posted by One Arm Steve View Post
They also said Jesus was a very common name at the time. Will the real Jesus please stand up, please walk across Lake Michigan p.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 03:03 PM   #34
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Agreed! Evidence is essential to proving anything. The more extraordinary the claim the stronger the evidence should be. Unfortunately that same logic can also be used against religion.

I'll remain skeptical until I see strong evidence based on facts that have withstood peer review.
Personally, I find the story of Jesus to stand strong against intellectual scrutiny and logic. The story checks out, but that is an a much different topic.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 03:31 PM   #35
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I don't like the idea that someone would call someone else's beliefs illogical. I personally think it's illogical to be a democrat, but I dont go around saying that to people. A person has the right to believe what they want. Here is an example, I believe that my dog loves me. Has he ever told me he loves me? No, so I have faith that he loves me. I see things in his actions that lead me to believe he does love me, but I have no proof. Am I illogical for thinking that my dog loves me?
That's the thing Kerry Ann, how is the story of Jesus logical? He's a man, he is killed, and comes back to life. How is that logical? It's not...it's highly illogical, and that my friends is what makes it a religion. It wouldn't be a religion if he just died, that's totally normal. Name any religion that makes sense and doesn't rely on some kind of outside deity to explain things...
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Old February 27th, 2007, 03:49 PM   #36
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1. Hhow is the story of Jesus logical? He's a man, he is killed, and comes back to life. How is that logical?

2. It wouldn't be a religion if he just died
1. The fact that eye witnesses attested to his resurrection says that he WAS supernatural, qualifying his claims of divinity. There was a religious sect at the time called the Sadducees, and they believed resurrection was impossible, so they fought the story of Christ raising from the dead the say way you are, its no possible. But again, I propose that if it were not for his resurrection, he would not qualify as one who backed up his claims. Hard to believe? Yes. Illogical? No. Eye witnesses testified to this happening, even to the point of being tortured and killed. It would be illogical to ignore the eye witness testimonies of men who were killed for what they saw.

2. I don't know if you intended it that way, but you are right. It would not be a religion if he just died, because it would have communciated that he was merely a man, the same as anyone else who make divine claims. It was his resurrection that MADE the faith sound, it is the foundation of the belief in Jesus. He couquered death on a cross, so he can also conquer the death that my sins bring onto me. Life everlasting is possibe with he who stayed living, he who didn't just die.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 04:32 PM   #37
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I like how everybody ignored what I said, even though it was the most educated response.

Read up on this story. Much of it is a hoax... or at least isn't authentic from that era
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Old February 27th, 2007, 04:47 PM   #38
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This is like me telling you that Milli Vanilli have the best voices out there. Old News!
Girl, you know it's true!
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Old February 27th, 2007, 05:43 PM   #39
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I like how everybody ignored what I said, even though it was the most educated response.

Read up on this story. Much of it is a hoax... or at least isn't authentic from that era
Acknowledging what you said would remove the excuse to argue.:miff:
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Old February 27th, 2007, 05:44 PM   #40
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I like how everybody ignored what I said, even though it was the most educated response.
That's pretty typical in this forum. Most people just want to argue nonsense rather than discuss facts.
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