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Old February 3rd, 2007, 02:12 PM   #21
brewmenn
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Originally Posted by 3-foot View Post
Here's another perspective on the subject.

http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html

From Neal Boortz, always an interesting read.....

WHY AM I SKEPTICAL ABOUT MAN-MADE GLOBAL WARMING?

:chiefwoohaw: :chiefwoohaw: :chiefwoohaw:

It would be interesting if he offered references for his claims. But he didn't, so it's just a bunch of opinions and unsubstanciated claims, most of which seem to be dead wrong. I researched a few of him claims and most turned out to be completely false.

A few references:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...100776,00.html (Greenlands and antarticas glaciers shrinking)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16904988/page/2/ (chart at the bottom of page 2 shows it being warmer now than ever, including the 1930's)
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 02:15 PM   #22
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Yeah and most of the statistics you see are based on the rising average temperature of urban areas and the reports casually neglect something called "Urban Island Effect." The denser the population, the higher the temperature because of obvious reasons. Dig up the temperature records for rural areas and you'll be amazed to see that in some areas the temperature did, in fact, increase by a couple degrees over the last hundred years but other areas actually declined.

It's sensationalist reporting... just like everything else you see now a days. How can you trust the media when it comes to how serious a situation is when they're declaring Winter Storm Emergencies for two inches of snow...
Last time I checked most of those shrinking glaciers were not in urban areas. And while it may be true that some areas are actually getting colder it's the overall average that has people concerned.
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 07:20 PM   #23
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how can you look at the shrinking glaciers and say its not warming? and yes, like brewmenn said, how can you expect to fukc up the environment for so long and not expect their to be some kind of negative effects?

Do you also not believe in the shrinking ozone layer? how about acid rain?
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 08:00 PM   #24
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i'm not a meteorologist or ecologist, nor do i have any idea what i'm talking about, but i can grasp this:

that their concern is about average temperatures over time being increased, and that although it is expected (ie. since ice age), that man and his consumption of fossil fuels served as a catalyst, therefore constituting a fear that our emissions and such may have more severe repercussions than expected.
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 08:21 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by brewmenn View Post
It would be interesting if he offered references for his claims. But he didn't, so it's just a bunch of opinions and unsubstanciated claims, most of which seem to be dead wrong. I researched a few of him claims and most turned out to be completely false.

A few references:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...100776,00.html (Greenlands and antarticas glaciers shrinking)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16904988/page/2/ (chart at the bottom of page 2 shows it being warmer now than ever, including the 1930's)
The MSNBC chart is the much debated "hockey stick" chart. The question is how accurate is the chart? I could show you probably ten web sites that show the same chart "proving" G.W. but in the end they all point back to the same data set. That original data set is what is being questioned.

I think the point is that there aren't ANY reliable sources of information on this subject. Everyone is either trying to prove or disprove the existance of GW.

It's not just what someone is saying but what is their motivation for saying anything? Who's paying for the reasearch?

I don't believe there are unbiased opinions on either side.

With that in mind here's some more Greenland info, that seems to conclude that no one really knows....

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=267
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 08:32 PM   #26
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how can you look at the shrinking glaciers and say its not warming? and yes, like brewmenn said, how can you expect to fukc up the environment for so long and not expect their to be some kind of negative effects?
The point is this: Are the glaciers supposed to continue growing indefinitely? Or maybe they're going to stay exactly the same size forever? Is every single glacier shrinking? Or - are some shrinking and some growing?
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Old February 4th, 2007, 08:42 AM   #27
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how can you look at the shrinking glaciers and say its not warming?
I can say its warming!

How can you say its MY fault? The F-ing ice caps are shrinking on Mars too.

There can be cycles in temps, If it was that fragile we'd have seen way bigger shifts from volcanos and forest fires.

Where is your free thinking?
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Old February 4th, 2007, 09:51 AM   #28
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The political rhetoric concerning the argument for or against global warming is about the most disgusting thing I have ever witnessed.

side A)We are all going to be be either in a ice age or flooded by 2050.

side B)Scientists are wrong,Republicans are right.

It's just simple math. In the last 100 years we (humans) have removed many,many things that produce oxygen. In that same time we have made machines that pump tons of poison into our atmosphere daily.

Personally I'd like to take Rush Limbaugh and put him in a garage with a bunch of plants, then have him sit in his car while it's running in said garage so he can understand simple math, then I'd like to take a bunch of scientists and sit them outside today with the temp. at zero while in nothing but lab coats.

The longer people argue over something, the longer NOTHING is done.

I feel this is our biggest problem. Stupid people claiming to be smart by steadfastly defending position A or B.
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Old February 4th, 2007, 10:13 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toolmantim View Post
The political rhetoric concerning the argument for or against global warming is about the most disgusting thing I have ever witnessed.

side A)We are all going to be be either in a ice age or flooded by 2050.

side B)Scientists are wrong,Republicans are right.

It's just simple math. In the last 100 years we (humans) have removed many,many things that produce oxygen. In that same time we have made machines that pump tons of poison into our atmosphere daily.

Personally I'd like to take Rush Limbaugh and put him in a garage with a bunch of plants, then have him sit in his car while it's running in said garage so he can understand simple math, then I'd like to take a bunch of scientists and sit them outside today with the temp. at zero while in nothing but lab coats.

The longer people argue over something, the longer NOTHING is done.

I feel this is our biggest problem. Stupid people claiming to be smart by steadfastly defending position A or B.
i couldn't have put it any better.

It does make me sick how those right wing hosts can sit there and talk about it like they are scientists. Let's see, where is Glen Beck's credentials on this, oh wait, he doesn't have any, he's just sticking to the conservative talking points like a good little republican.
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Old February 4th, 2007, 12:51 PM   #30
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I can say its warming!

How can you say its MY fault? The F-ing ice caps are shrinking on Mars too.

There can be cycles in temps, If it was that fragile we'd have seen way bigger shifts from volcanos and forest fires.

Where is your free thinking?
We do see shifts in weather due to volcanos and forest fires. But those things are short term, they happen, maybe for a few months, and are over with. They may effect weather for a few years, but eventually things go back to normal. But the man made pollution just keeps on coming.
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Old February 4th, 2007, 02:12 PM   #31
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i couldn't have put it any better.

It does make me sick how those right wing hosts can sit there and talk about it like they are scientists. Let's see, where is Glen Beck's credentials on this, oh wait, he doesn't have any, he's just sticking to the conservative talking points like a good little republican.

And this is different from "your" side of the argument how?
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Old February 4th, 2007, 02:27 PM   #32
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the people i listen to are scientists, not right wing pundits.
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Old February 4th, 2007, 02:43 PM   #33
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the people i listen to are scientists, not right wing pundits.

What about all the scientists from the other side of the argument?
It's just not what you want to hear, so they don't count, right?
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Old February 4th, 2007, 03:30 PM   #34
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Can I get odds that Sova identifies Al Gore as a "scientist"?

Couldn't graduate divinity school, and now he's nominated for a Nobel Prize.
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Old February 4th, 2007, 03:38 PM   #35
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Can I get odds that Sova identifies Al Gore as a "scientist"?

Couldn't graduate divinity school, and now he's nominated for a Nobel Prize.
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Old February 4th, 2007, 04:09 PM   #36
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We do see shifts in weather due to volcanos and forest fires. But those things are short term, they happen, maybe for a few months, and are over with. They may effect weather for a few years, but eventually things go back to normal. But the man made pollution just keeps on coming.
Right those are short term but much worse in the amount of matter. Rains and nature seem to clean those and the shifts are very minor.

Why is the global Warming crowd afraid of debate? This sort of seems like a Flat Earth Society.

"If a meteorologist has an AMS Seal of Approval, which is used to confer legitimacy to TV meteorologists, then meteorologists have a responsibility to truly educate themselves on the science of global warming. If a meteorologist can't speak to the fundamental science of climate change, then maybe the AMS shouldn't give them a seal of approval."



Again! I am not saying it's not warming, I want legitimate unbiased research.

It's tough to believe that we are causing it to increase at such a rate, with all the cleaner burning tech, cleaner coal, solar and hydro.
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Old February 4th, 2007, 06:05 PM   #37
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the people i listen to are scientists, not right wing pundits.
Just like the scientists from the 70's who thought we would currently be in an ice age right now huh?
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Old February 4th, 2007, 06:42 PM   #38
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the people i listen to are scientists, not right wing pundits.
I guess a scientists have to be now
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Old February 5th, 2007, 07:44 AM   #39
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ok let me clarify that, i also add my own common sense to that. Go up and re-read toolmantim's post. pollution is bad and adding tons and tons of it to our world isn't going to have good effects.
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Old February 5th, 2007, 10:37 AM   #40
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Yet another common sense opinion out today in the WSJ.....

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editor...l?id=110009625
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